Killhammer Strategy: HQ choices

[Warp Angel]

Every army needs a leader, but which leaders do you choose? Especially with a whole new array of special characters to choose from, many of whom give your army a completely different playstyle, it can be difficult to decide. Do you give them a command squad? What equipment should they have? I understand that many of you are going to make your decisions for fluffy reasons, and that's pefectly okay. But even being fluffy, you have to wonder which HQ choices are best when you look for a potential second HQ choice.

 

Well, my brothers and sisters, Killhammer has some guidance and maybe some answers. Because I'm most familiar with vanilla marines, Dark Angels, Chaos, and Daemon Hunters, I'm going to focus my efforts on those units, with more emphasis on the Vanilla. Those of you who play BA, Wolves, or Sisters know the strengths and weaknesses of your armies, and should be able to slot your HQ choices into my general evaluations.

 

HQ units are unique in Power Armor armies, in that they often have an impact out of proportion to other units in your army. This is important in Killhammer principles. You want to make sure that all of your unit's impacts are that way.

 

So, first, a reminder of Killhammer evaluation formula: (K1 - K2) + (D1 + D2) + S = Killhammer rating for your unit

 

Let's start with the assumption that all HQ units have a high basic K. Once they get into hand to hand, they tend to destroy anything that isn't a monstrous creature, other character, or elite CC unit.

 

There's a couple of folks that go over the top in K1 though.

 

GK Grand Master. S6 Force Weapon that still eliminates extra characters, ability to have a S6 Assault 3 weapon that ignores invulnerables.

Marneus Calgar. AP2 storm bolter and second power fist.

Kayvaan Shrike. Mastercrafted Rending Lightning Claws.

Demon Prince. Monstrous creature with possibility of Warp Time

Darnath Lysander. S10 Thunderhammer. That's all you need to know.

 

There's also a few that don't have the super great K.

 

Vanilla Librarians. They aren't the CC gods they used to be.

Any Inquisitor/Inquisitor Lord. T3 and S3 are huge liabilities.

Vanilla Chaplains. They are better than the Librarians, but on their own, it isn't much better

 

So, a quick assessment, if you're looking for your HQ to be one of your Killing units, the guys on the first list are great, the guys in the second not so much, and the guys not listed are probably good enough.

 

K2 gets a bit more tricky to evaluate, since most HQ choices don't have any inherent way to quickly close to optimum killing range (which for most of them means assault range). Remember the formula... low K2 is better than high K2.

 

With the exception of Shrike, Dante, and Metiphiston, there aren't any real HQ choices that come with their own K2 lowering option, but any of the "generic" choices can buy them. Jump Packs, Bikes, Mounts, Wings... all reduce K2, but they also add cost. That's something to be aware of. Transports help to some degree, but unless it's a Land Raider, you're not getting a huge reduction in K2 from the transport.

 

So, looking at K, I think you know by know which HQ choices provide you the most of it.

 

D is a LOT easier to evaluate. Let's assume that everyone has a baseline of 3+/4++. For every point one of those saves lowers, you get one step better in D1. Fore every point one of those saves raises, you get one step worse in D1.

 

Someone like Azreal, who has artificer armor has better D1 than shrike. And someone like Lysander, who has a 3++ save, is better than Azreal. A bog stock Inquisitor has pitiful D1. D1 is important in combat, since it measures how resilliant you are.

 

D2 is adjusted by things like The shrouding (limiting long range attacks), increasing T (with bikes), decreasing T (darn pansy inquisitors), and the god of all D2 adjustments: Eternal Warrior.

 

At this point, using Killhammer principles, you should have figured out the relative strengths of various HQ choices against each other. Or at least you've got an idea of how to figure out those relative strengths.

 

But it's all kind of meaningless without that pesky S modifier. HQ choices are one place where S will ALWAYS trump everything else the unit brings to the table unless you have a very specific build you want to play. And I'd actually argue that having a specific build you want to play (for fluff or army composition reasons) is still an S adjustment. The only reason I included any of the above was so that you'd have an idea of how to compare two, otherwise comprable, S ratings.

 

Let's take our friend, Marneus Calgar. Aside from killing things, he brings a couple of abilities to the table that you can't get anywhere else. First, he allows you to pass or fail morale tests, and second, he lets you bring in more than one of an expensive uber-killhammer unit: the honor guard.

 

Frankly, I consider both those abilities below average. They're powerful, but they don't increase the killhammer of the rest of my army in a measurable or reliable fashion. They do, however, allow me to play very fluff, and with one of the highest K units available to Marines. In most situations, Marneus has a pretty low S.

 

Compare that to Vulkan, who gives a good selection of (usually expensive) weapons in my army a much greater effectiveness. This means that for 4-10 models in my army, I've recieved a massive K boost to their Killhammer rating. Sure you can min-max and adjust that number, but that's something you have to work at. Vulkan has an above average S because of his army boost.

 

S can be evaluated at a basic level by asking yourself two questions: Does an ability that a character has affect my army's killhammer rating? and How much of my army benefits from the increased killhammer rating? Shrike provides fleet to your entire army, and if you're playing with a lot of close combat troops, you've got a lot of positive S generated. If you don't have a lot of close combat troops, the value of S decreases quickly.

 

Chaplains and Librarians tend to have abilities that affect just the unit that they are attached to (at best), and as such have moderate to low S, though both of them have large swings to K1 or K2 for those units. If you've got a role for a unit led by a chaplain or a librarian, they're certainly viable choices, but shouldn't be thought of as "go to" characters.

 

Chaos characters and GK characters tend to have little to no S impact on an army. Even Fabius Bile's "new men" are of dubious S. They focus almost exclusively on being powerful individual models. Sisters get faith points (an important part of how their army plays) from choosing the right HQ, and far less S benefit from a pansy inquisitor.

 

A more "advanced" evaluation of S is: How much versatility do I get from this HQ choice? Certain HQ choices almost require that your army be played in a specific fashion. Darnath Lysander is most effective when in an assault and with an assault type unit. He's relatively inflexible in how he's used. Marneus Calgar is similarly wasted if he's not running the enemy down and hunting things that only Marneus can kill. You know, like Warhound Titans and Giant Squiggoths ;) Shrike has bog average D, and needs a supporting unit, so his deployment and use is pretty straightforward. Many of the other choices require supporting units or Land Raider transports to make the best use of their special abilities or wargear.

 

One can look at this sort of thing and realize that you might get the best flexibility S, especially in smaller games, out of the fully customizable Masters and Captains. It's easy to configure them as generalists, instead of the specialists that most named characters are, and it's easy to tailor them for the same roles as the more specialized characters if you'd like.

 

The most important thing that you can do to any of the "ordinary" HQ choices is increase their K2. Give them a bike, give them a mount, give them a jet pack, and you've immediately got more options than you would if you took a footslogging regular character. You never have to USE the bike or pack, but it's there when you want it. You've got the flexibility, and unlike Shrike, you probably still have a bolt pistol with your less effective lightning claws.

 

Sticking completely with the C:SM for a moment, choosing a Captain on a bike provides a stupendous amount of flexibility S. You get an additional unit type as a troops choices (and thus a scoring unit). Compared to an army that's wholly reliant on tactical squads and scouts to take objectives, you've just added a whole different dimension to how your army plays. Kahn provides the same advantage, plus outflank (which I've got mixed felings on) at a fair bit more cost than a Captain on a bike, and without the wargear flexibility.

 

Pedro Kantor does something similar. He gives you a new scoring (but not troops) unit type, making a good unit choice even better. Pedro also has the ability to add +1A to all the units near him in battle. Properly deployed, he increases the killhammer rating of a significant percentage of your army in close combat. When your tactical squad now has 21 attacks instead of 11, your opponent notices.

 

With all of that said, the HQ is probably the most personal choice you can make in your army, and reflects your playstyle and army composition. From a killhammer perspective though, S is where you're going to get your greatest impact from HQ choice, and you need to evaluate S against the army that you want to play.

 

If you start with S and build your army to benefit from it, some armies will assemble themselves. To emphasize that Killhammer isn't reinventing the wheel, think about all the Pedro and Vulkan armies that you're seeing these days. People have (consciously or unconsciously) realized that these two characters have benefits that can be best utilized when an entire army is built around them. Other characters show up with units built around them, like Lysander, or show up as independent killers. There's a difference in the S reflected by army composition that's obvious if you're looking for it.

 

Now, I've spent all of this time looking at HQ choices as if they are all characters, and completely ignored command squads and retinues.

 

In general, Command Squads/Retinues/Honor Guards are elite units, with a very high K, but not always better than the equivalent choice from the Elites list, or a better D than a troops choice. There generally isn't a whole lot of S added to the equation. Arguably, since these are never scoring units, they have a negative S rating overall. The big exception to this, in my opinion, is the option of a bike command squad. Their D is better than most units in your army, though the small squad size limits that, but they can be given storm shields, making them amazingly high in D against elite CC units.

 

When you are choosing to use one of these units, you really need to compare it to the rest of your army and see if it fills a vacancy that one of your other units doesn't fill, or that you can't fill with one or more scoring units. Going back to the Bike command squad, properly kitted out, they can all have a 3++, a power weapon, and get an effective 5 T, the banner can add more fun, and an apothacary is always amusing. Then there's the special weapons you can throw in for more laughs.

 

You'll probably have more CC success with a Thunderhammer terminator squad though. Better base armor against non PW attacks, cost less per model, so you get more models, etc.

 

Essentially, the Killhammer rating of the squad has to justify taking it over another unit with similar capabilities. As always with HQ choices, S is an important part of the decision.

 

I'll explore more about how the HQ squad choices fit into armies once I get to my Killhammer: Army Creation post. That'll probably be after the holidays.

 

As always, Killhammer is subjective, and your feedback is appreciated.

[Apogee]

No love for the Cannoness? I find that mastercrafted S5 power weapon at I4 to be lots of fun, especially with a 2+ invulnerable.

[Warp Angel]

Well, my brothers and sisters, Killhammer has some guidance and maybe some answers. Because I'm most familiar with vanilla marines, Dark Angels, Chaos, and Daemon Hunters, I'm going to focus my efforts on those units, with more emphasis on the Vanilla. Those of you who play BA, Wolves, or Sisters know the strengths and weaknesses of your armies, and should be able to slot your HQ choices into my general evaluations.

 

Like I said towards the beginning, I'm not as familiar with the Witchhunters, Wolves, or BA as I am with other HQ choices.

 

I've got lots of love for anything with jump packs, and I do talk about sisters's HQ units providing Faith points and considerable S over what inquisitors bring to the table.

[StormTAG]

I really like the Chaplin, now that I've played him once or twice. Giving him a Jump pack for the reduction in K2 marries him perfectly to one of our highest K1 units: The Assault Squad. Reducing your misses from 1/3 to 1/9 is rather significant. Especially the sergeant with his Power Fist. Missing is the most likely place you're going to lose kills with a power fist (and invulnerable saves but those you can't affect much.)

 

The important part about a Jump Pack Chaplin is he's dirt cheap. 115 points for that big of a Kill power increase is worth it when you must take atleast one HQ.

[Warp Angel]

I really like the Chaplin, now that I've played him once or twice. Giving him a Jump pack for the reduction in K2 marries him perfectly to one of our highest K1 units: The Assault Squad. Reducing your misses from 1/3 to 1/9 is rather significant. Especially the sergeant with his Power Fist. Missing is the most likely place you're going to lose kills with a power fist (and invulnerable saves but those you can't affect much.)

 

The important part about a Jump Pack Chaplin is he's dirt cheap. 115 points for that big of a Kill power increase is worth it when you must take atleast one HQ.

 

No real disagreement, but one well landed Vindicator shot, or a lash list and all of the sudden, your killy unit of doom is a bunch of pieces.

 

Again, though, if you've got a role for your commander and the rest of your army, that S is a huge deal.

 

I would suggest, however, trying exactly the same list but with Bikes instead of assault marines. Proxy if you have to, but watch the difference that T4(5) and relentless shooting makes.

[StormTAG]

My problem with Bikes is three fold, and only one of them being worth mentioning:

 

1) I don't own them. Yes, I can proxy but I try not to do that for more than a game or two (except for models that are proxied because they're not fully assembled, like all my Bolter Marines. :drool: )

 

2) They're harder to maneuver. Maybe it's just me but I have a hard enough time as it is getting my models where I need them to go without having to deal taking wounds while going through terrain. That's one of my favorite things about Jump Packs, actually. Being able to completely circumnavigate terrain while moving is a godsend. Especially when most of the terrain pieces at the LGS are less than 12" wide.

 

3) I don't really like the look of them. Purely and completely subjective, I just think the Space Marine bikes are dumb looking.

 

 

Also, a Vindicator shot will blow away Bikes just as easy. ;)

[minigun762]

Well done Warp Angel.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the take home message that I received is that the "best" HQ units are those that give unique abilities to the rest of your army thereby increasing the S of your entire army. For some armies that makes alot of sense (All Bike armies, Sternguard scoring etc). However alot of armies don't have these kind of HQ choices, infact only Orks, Space Marines and Black Templar have HQs that increase the armies S. Lash of Submission might be considered a S factor I suppose, and I could see Necron Orb Lord as one.

 

My point is, with the rest of the armies out there, the focus is not on the S, its on creating a very high K1 and a very low K2 (thats correct right?) unit. Basically very fast and very killy.

Warptime Daemon Prince with Wings is an example.

 

So is it safe to assume that the general pattern for HQ selection should be to select a S enhancer and build an appropriate army and if that doesn't exist, select a High K1/low K2 choice. The worst case seems to be to select a HQ based on its D values.

[StormTAG]

Well done Warp Angel.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the take home message that I received is that the "best" HQ units are those that give unique abilities to the rest of your army thereby increasing the S of your entire army. For some armies that makes alot of sense (All Bike armies, Sternguard scoring etc). However alot of armies don't have these kind of HQ choices, infact only Orks, Space Marines and Black Templar have HQs that increase the armies S. Lash of Submission might be considered a S factor I suppose, and I could see Necron Orb Lord as one.

 

Tyranids keep their broods in line with synapse. Eldar Farseers with their buffing Psychic powers are very high S. Guardsmen officers keep those grunts in line. Tau have Ethereals. etc. etc.

[Warp Angel]

Well done Warp Angel.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the take home message that I received is that the "best" HQ units are those that give unique abilities to the rest of your army thereby increasing the S of your entire army. For some armies that makes alot of sense (All Bike armies, Sternguard scoring etc). However alot of armies don't have these kind of HQ choices, infact only Orks, Space Marines and Black Templar have HQs that increase the armies S. Lash of Submission might be considered a S factor I suppose, and I could see Necron Orb Lord as one.

 

My point is, with the rest of the armies out there, the focus is not on the S, its on creating a very high K1 and a very low K2 (thats correct right?) unit. Basically very fast and very killy.

Warptime Daemon Prince with Wings is an example.

 

So is it safe to assume that the general pattern for HQ selection should be to select a S enhancer and build an appropriate army and if that doesn't exist, select a High K1/low K2 choice. The worst case seems to be to select a HQ based on its D values.

 

Well, don't forget that Sisters have a Cannoness that provides faith points - a critical resource to their army.

 

Think about the top army builds out there... at least the ones that seem "abused":

 

Orks: Gazkull Thraka gives your entire army fleet of a full 6", Warboss gives you nobs (and thus nob bikers as troops)

Necrons: When have you NOT seen a res orb?

Marines: Pedro and Vulkan

Dark Angels: (admittedly not as strong as vanilla leaders in most respects) Belial and Sammael (Deathwing and Ravenwing respectively)

Sisters: Cannoness (Faith Points)

 

And if you look at other armies, whenever possible they take a unit upgrade leader:

 

Black Templars: Chaplains

Blood Angels: Chaplains

Sisters: Veteran Sister Superiors (Faith Points again - it's an army and a squad upgrade, just not from the HQ slot)

 

I really don't understand why I don't see more Autarchs in Eldar armies. With their mobility, coming in early from reserve (getting a reroll to reserves) is an amazing deal, and you can get an Autarch relatively cheap. A Farseer is still a must, but +1 to reserve rolls in Fifth is HUGE.

 

Chaos and Bugs lack a whole lot of synergy with their HQ choices, but a friend of mine who plays Tyranids is convinced that a pair of Hive Tyrants with "The Terror" instead of "Warp Field" is going to make his army humongously more deadly. Even small bug squads can inflict huge penalties to leadership when supported by a Hive Tyrant like that. All they have to do is win, and they immediately win by one more for each Tyrant within 12". It's an amazing way to create a kill gap and increase the K1 of the rest of your army.

 

But yeah... with Chaos... just kill. Kill. Kill. For that, Winged prince of Tzeentch with Warptime and Winds of Chaos is probably your best bet. You're going to wreck even the largest enemy units in a single assault, and have the invulnerable save to come out through a storm of power weapons.

[Warp Angel]

Well done Warp Angel.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the take home message that I received is that the "best" HQ units are those that give unique abilities to the rest of your army thereby increasing the S of your entire army. For some armies that makes alot of sense (All Bike armies, Sternguard scoring etc). However alot of armies don't have these kind of HQ choices, infact only Orks, Space Marines and Black Templar have HQs that increase the armies S. Lash of Submission might be considered a S factor I suppose, and I could see Necron Orb Lord as one.

 

Tyranids keep their broods in line with synapse. Eldar Farseers with their buffing Psychic powers are very high S. Guardsmen officers keep those grunts in line. Tau have Ethereals. etc. etc.

 

I've already talked about the bugs, and how the Terror (I think that's the power anyway) can negatively impact enemy leadership, meaning more wipes in CC.

 

I think that Farseers bring a lot to an army, and I think that Autarchs bring a whole lot that the Farseer doesn't.

 

Guard have no good leadership options. Aside from their leadership "radius", there isn't a lot that they can do. The Vox upgrades are too expensive, since by the time you've equipped your army with one for each squad, you could have bought a whole extra squad. I'm an avid guard player, and the only strength guard have is in the amount of bodies and heavy weapons (including vehicle mounted ones) that they can bring to a fight. The HQs have no special abilities worth mentioning, and even fully kitted out are among the worst K and D HQ units in the game.

 

As a (reformed) Tau player (dumped them for Chaos), I think that are in a similar situation where they don't get any real benefit from an HQ choice. Yes the Etheral can provide a strong benefit to the army, but that's outweighed by his being a very weak K and D unit, and with a strong potential negative impact should he be killed.

 

With both Guard and Tau, you should be focusing on your non-HQ units, and making them as potent as possible, since you get no real S value out of them, and they don't have great K/D.

[Koremu]

I prefer to take a very hard, killy unit as a HQ choice (Captain with Command Squad in a Razorback being a favourite) and then using the other army selections to support that. The classic is a Tactical Squad as their backup - with a Flamer and an Assault oriented Sergeant, a Combat Squad excels at softening up the target beforehand and can either join the Command Squad in melee (handy vs. large units) or join the Razorback in providing a screening force for them, while the second Combat Squad holds a holding brief behind them.

 

While increasing the S or your other units with special abilities is nice, it's equally possible to do so with unit synergy.

 

 

Also worth noting is that the "all units" boosting abilities are less powerful in smaller detachments. Fewer units to affect = lower effect.

[Warp Angel]

I prefer to take a very hard, killy unit as a HQ choice (Captain with Command Squad in a Razorback being a favourite) and then using the other army selections to support that. The classic is a Tactical Squad as their backup - with a Flamer and an Assault oriented Sergeant, a Combat Squad excels at softening up the target beforehand and can either join the Command Squad in melee (handy vs. large units) or join the Razorback in providing a screening force for them, while the second Combat Squad holds a holding brief behind them.

 

While increasing the S or your other units with special abilities is nice, it's equally possible to do so with unit synergy.

 

 

Also worth noting is that the "all units" boosting abilities are less powerful in smaller detachments. Fewer units to affect = lower effect.

 

Really good point on the "all units" boosting strategy. That's something that I probably should have mentioned.

 

There's nothing wrong with a high K HQ unit. I made the point pretty early on that if your army needs the kind of K that only an HQ can bring, you're probably going to want to run with that, becuase your S (needing that kind of K) means that kind of unit is the best choice.

 

I wonder if you're able to get the same, or better effect from a unit of no-jump pack Vanguard and your Captain, borrowing someone else's Razorback than you do from a command squad. The loadout options are different, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

 

As always, S stands for "Subjective", and what you need to make your army work is certainly different than what I need to make mine work. Killhammer is intended to provide a framework for evaluating what are otherwise very similar choices.

[Warp Angel]

I prefer to take a very hard, killy unit as a HQ choice (Captain with Command Squad in a Razorback being a favourite) and then using the other army selections to support that. The classic is a Tactical Squad as their backup - with a Flamer and an Assault oriented Sergeant, a Combat Squad excels at softening up the target beforehand and can either join the Command Squad in melee (handy vs. large units) or join the Razorback in providing a screening force for them, while the second Combat Squad holds a holding brief behind them.

 

Sorry for the second reply to the same message, but think about this:

 

Is it better to take a generic captain with a command squad, and use unit synergy, or do you get a better Killhammer result by taking Sicarius as your captain and get Rites of Battle, and make one tactical squad into a Furious Charge tactical squad, while still getting the same synergy?

 

You haven't necessarily (depending on wargear) increased the Killhammer of the HQ unit itself, but you've significantly increased the K of the Tactical squad that's following in support.

 

Killhammer says that Sicarius does just about everything your regular captain does, and improves another unit.

 

It's up to you, as a general, whether or not the additional points and fixed wargear are worth it.

 

In the case of bike captain vs. Korsarro Kahn, I know that I choose the generic bike captain.

[Koremu]

I wonder if you're able to get the same, or better effect from a unit of no-jump pack Vanguard and your Captain, borrowing someone else's Razorback than you do from a command squad. The loadout options are different, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

 

It terms of points cost for what you get at basic (no upgrades), the only difference is that the Vanguard come with a Power Weapon built in (for which you pay points), while the Command Squad get an Apothecary instead of a Veteran (at a cost of 5 points more for the whole squad having significantly increased D).

 

In terms of options, the Command Squad get everything the Vanguard do, except the option of a Relic Blade for the Sergeant (for some reason the Vanguard Sergeant can have one, but the Company Champion can't!) and the Jump Packs.

 

In addition, the Command Squad get a whole bunch of shooty options (Storm Bolter, Special and Combi Weapons), and the options of a Company Champion, Company Banner and Bikes.

 

Unless you actually need Heroic Intervention, don't want to take a Captain, or have already filled your HQ choices, Command Squad beats Vanguard every day of the week.

 

 

EDIT: You're correct about Sicarius, but he's not a pure "all units gain X" S-type HQ unit, as his major ability is single unit target only.

[Warp Angel]

EDIT: You're correct about Sicarius, but he's not a pure "all units gain X" S-type HQ unit, as his major ability is single unit target only.

 

Thanks for running the Vanguard numbers for me. I generally don't use either command squads or vanguard, preferring Terminators for my hand to hand smashing of things and Sternguard for the shooting side of things.

 

I know Sicarius isn't a pure "all units" guy, since Rites of Battle doesn't enhance Killhammer, but giving a tactical squad a veteran ability has greater S than not getting anything from a captain. And your point was that you get great S from unit synergy, while all I was trying to do was say "you get better S from Sicarius and unit synergy."

 

I really do need to stand by my assertion that S should play the strongest role in HQ choice using Killhammer principles. But, like I said earlier, Sicarius may not be a better choice than a footslogger captain based upon the points available to your army, or your need to have more powerfists/thunder hammers for anti-tank.

[StormTAG]

I know Sicarius isn't a pure "all units" guy, since Rites of Battle doesn't enhance Killhammer,

 

Quick disagreement. As awesome as ATSKNF is, you're still taking extra wounds when you break from combat. Giving yourself LD 10 all the way across decreases your chances of breaking and taking extra wounds. Not a big increase in D but an increase none the less, isn't it?

[Warp Angel]

I know Sicarius isn't a pure "all units" guy, since Rites of Battle doesn't enhance Killhammer,

 

Quick disagreement. As awesome as ATSKNF is, you're still taking extra wounds when you break from combat. Giving yourself LD 10 all the way across decreases your chances of breaking and taking extra wounds. Not a big increase in D but an increase none the less, isn't it?

 

It's arguable whether or not that ability will ever get used in a game. If you're winning or drawing your combats, it never matters. In shooting, the statistical difference between 9 and 10 on 2d6 is pretty small, and you might never take 25% casualties in many shooting phases.

 

It's a minor D and S adjustment, that's potentially significant, but may never see play. I choose (my opinion) to discount it when considering the Killhammer rating of Sicarius when compared against a basic Captain. It does, however, offset some of the points difference. Again, that's in my opinion.

 

For the record my favorite two HQ choices (in order) are Captain on a Bike and Pedro Kantor.

[Marlow]

For the record my favorite two HQ choices (in order) are Captain on a Bike and Pedro Kantor.

Wow, those are my choices too! I give the Biker a relic Blade (just converted using a GK NFW) and was thinking about the Storm Shield. I also want to try running him with the Command Squad for the FNP.

 

 

You've got the flexibility, and unlike Shrike, you probably still have a bolt pistol with your less effective lightning claws.

Minor point, but with 5th Ed Shrike now has a Pistol with his claws...

[Blood Scorpion]

For the record my favorite two HQ choices (in order) are Captain on a Bike and Pedro Kantor.

Warp Angel, what have been your experiences of using Pedro Kantor since you wrote this article on HQ choices. Is he still your second favourite choice?

 

At 1500pts I've been running Pedro with some Grey Knights and have mixed feelings with the results. Inspiring Presence is great and helps the Grey Knights (and any other unit within range) excel in combat, but Pedro himself has performed quite badly at killing anything, and with a 3+/4++ save he gets targeted and killed quite easily in my experience. I have therefore gone with a basic Chaplain and a Holy Relic on the Justicar in the last few games to save a few points. Whilst often effective it has made this unit very one dimensional and a bit boring.

 

I guess I'm wandering if you've had similar experiences or if you still rate him very highly?

[white radish]

Isn't Pedro just an AoE version of a Chappy? Since his power relies on him being alive, wouldn't that make him Vindi bait? Of course, the point of Pedro seems to be to never put him in combat... rather, he's an anchor unit for a greater formation. I could be wrong in that assessment.

 

Vulkan, I understand. He makes everyone better, regardless of whether or not he's alive. The guy's dead cheap for what he does for everything else you can put on the board.

 

Lysander... what about Sternguard & Bolter Drill? I can see his use in assault squads, but then you waste his Bolter Drill ability if you're running Assault Termies (it's arguable whether a Bolt Pistol is much of a loss, though). If there's anyone else to Drop Pod with Sternguard besides a Librarian, Lysander seems to be the dude.

 

Khan is like an uber-Chaplain with Furious Charge instead of Litanies re-rolls, and the ability to confer Outflank (which is not great because of its randomness, but it can do something with the right units in reserve). For the most part, I look at Khan as a way to re-do a good Chaplain now for my Mortifactors since the Chaplains generally aren't that hot.

 

...

 

Also, for bugs, it's the Psychic Scream "Choir" army... 2 Tyrants with Scream (Warp Field is only a 6++ anyway, so it's only useful on Flyrants), 3x Zoanthropes with Scream... so most likely at least -2 to Leadership, and potentially as much as -5 to Leadership if all 5 Screams overlap your squad. I'm sure some people still run that kind of list.

 

Kind of a cool effect, anyway.

[waaanial00]

Isn't Pedro just an AoE version of a Chappy? Since his power relies on him being alive, wouldn't that make him Vindi bait? Of course, the point of Pedro seems to be to never put him in combat... rather, he's an anchor unit for a greater formation. I could be wrong in that assessment.

 

Lysander... what about Sternguard & Bolter Drill? I can see his use in assault squads, but then you waste his Bolter Drill ability if you're running Assault Termies (it's arguable whether a Bolt Pistol is much of a loss, though). If there's anyone else to Drop Pod with Sternguard besides a Librarian, Lysander seems to be the dude.

 

Dont forget that both of these characters give the Stubborn ability, which I have found to be very helpfull for my Tacticals. Tacticals can support a combat but rarely win on their own. Enter Stubborn ability and they are turned into a tough roadblock or buffer unit whilst at the same time not sufferring from the no retreat wounding that fearless imposes.

 

I am a bit of a newbie when it comes to this Killhammer stuff but isnt this adding some S to the whole army. Lysander also comes with Bolster Defenses which if you have a Scout Squad with Camo cloaks also adds S to them as well. I am sure that I have got the letter wrong but I hope that you see what I mean.

 

Oh and to Warp Angel a big thanks for these topics and an additional cool mark for the Avatar (cant quite place it though).

 

Wan

[Warp Angel]

For the record my favorite two HQ choices (in order) are Captain on a Bike and Pedro Kantor.

Warp Angel, what have been your experiences of using Pedro Kantor since you wrote this article on HQ choices. Is he still your second favourite choice?

 

At 1500pts I've been running Pedro with some Grey Knights and have mixed feelings with the results. Inspiring Presence is great and helps the Grey Knights (and any other unit within range) excel in combat, but Pedro himself has performed quite badly at killing anything, and with a 3+/4++ save he gets targeted and killed quite easily in my experience. I have therefore gone with a basic Chaplain and a Holy Relic on the Justicar in the last few games to save a few points. Whilst often effective it has made this unit very one dimensional and a bit boring.

 

I guess I'm wandering if you've had similar experiences or if you still rate him very highly?

 

STUBBORN rocks. No negative leadership modifiers? Yes, please.

 

The +1A is nice, and as far as characters go... Master + PF + SB + SB is about the same cost as Pedro... so he's uber efficient. I never rely on him to actually do anything... he's there as support for my army. And because his ability is a radius effect, I can deploy him as needed for my opponent. I'm not locked in to putting him on the front lines if he's going to get rolled by a Chaos Lord with a demon blade by doing so.

 

You get far less benefits by playing with fearless units than with basic marines. Remember, at I1 and relatively poor armor, he needs to stay AWAY from major assaults where he can be targetted. Use him against enemy infantry if you're going to throw him into the mix. Your assessment of him as relatively fragile is entirely accurate. Deploy him in a way that increases enemy K2 and his D2 (time to get into a threating space).

[Warp Angel]

Isn't Pedro just an AoE version of a Chappy? Since his power relies on him being alive, wouldn't that make him Vindi bait? Of course, the point of Pedro seems to be to never put him in combat... rather, he's an anchor unit for a greater formation. I could be wrong in that assessment.

 

Vulkan, I understand. He makes everyone better, regardless of whether or not he's alive. The guy's dead cheap for what he does for everything else you can put on the board.

 

Lysander... what about Sternguard & Bolter Drill? I can see his use in assault squads, but then you waste his Bolter Drill ability if you're running Assault Termies (it's arguable whether a Bolt Pistol is much of a loss, though). If there's anyone else to Drop Pod with Sternguard besides a Librarian, Lysander seems to be the dude.

 

Khan is like an uber-Chaplain with Furious Charge instead of Litanies re-rolls, and the ability to confer Outflank (which is not great because of its randomness, but it can do something with the right units in reserve). For the most part, I look at Khan as a way to re-do a good Chaplain now for my Mortifactors since the Chaplains generally aren't that hot.

 

...

 

Also, for bugs, it's the Psychic Scream "Choir" army... 2 Tyrants with Scream (Warp Field is only a 6++ anyway, so it's only useful on Flyrants), 3x Zoanthropes with Scream... so most likely at least -2 to Leadership, and potentially as much as -5 to Leadership if all 5 Screams overlap your squad. I'm sure some people still run that kind of list.

 

Kind of a cool effect, anyway.

 

Your assement of Pedro is pretty much the same as mine. Lysander I like for many of the same reasons, but he's a lot more expensive, and he's conflicted between being a CC god or standing off to help a single squad shoot with bolter drill. If I were going seriously terminator heavy, I'd take him, but I can't otherwise justify his schitzophrenic nature and high points cost when I can buy Pedro or a 5 man squad of TH/SS termies at the same points cost.

 

Not a fan of Khan. I honestly think I can do better in most situations with a customized commander. He's got the same weaknesses as Pedro, and his most potent abilities only apply to a single squad. That said, in the right squad, he's a huge squad upgrade.

[Warp Angel]

Oh and to Warp Angel a big thanks for these topics and an additional cool mark for the Avatar (cant quite place it though).

 

Fizzgig from the movie, "Dark Crystal". And thanks. You're spot on on your assessment of the usefulness of Stubborn.

[Prathios]

Something of note I think would be the Inquisitor. For less than the price of M.A. Calgar you can nab an =I= + retinue which IS a single unit so its basically one guy with a bunch of wounds and guns (at least as far as close combat is concerned) and he gets 8 shots at 12 inches with plasma. 8 shots. Lord with master crafted plasma pistol, acolyte with plasma pistol, three warriors with plasma rifles, two sages for a juicy gets hot reroll, and a rhino transport. Not a bad deal and its one of the better "oh look i got a surprise in this rhino for your command squad" tactics for changing the look on your opponents face. If you wanna go crazy you can put em in a LRC and suddenly you have a unit that can just about one shot a squad of anything. 1 multi-melta, 12 reroll bolters, 3 assault cannon rerolls, and 8 shots of plasma can munch even a vaunted termy squad with TH/SS Unless they make some crazy good saves.