Killhammer Strategy: HQ choices

[white radish]

Your assement of Pedro is pretty much the same as mine. Lysander I like for many of the same reasons, but he's a lot more expensive, and he's conflicted between being a CC god or standing off to help a single squad shoot with bolter drill. If I were going seriously terminator heavy, I'd take him, but I can't otherwise justify his schitzophrenic nature and high points cost when I can buy Pedro or a 5 man squad of TH/SS termies at the same points cost.

 

Not a fan of Khan. I honestly think I can do better in most situations with a customized commander. He's got the same weaknesses as Pedro, and his most potent abilities only apply to a single squad. That said, in the right squad, he's a huge squad upgrade.

 

I can see what you're saying about Lysander's schizophrenia. I don't know whether I should use him embedded with Sternguard, or deploy him with Assault Terminators inside a Land Raider...

 

I'll have to take a second look at Pedro, though. At least he's dead simple to mock up via bits as compared to Vulkan (if I wanted to replicate both his spear & the gauntlet)...

 

Outflank is probably over-rated with Khan. I'm more interested in his Furious Charge & Hit/Run ability, and to make a cooler Chaplain for my Mortifactors :huh:

[Warp Angel]

Something of note I think would be the Inquisitor. For less than the price of M.A. Calgar you can nab an =I= + retinue which IS a single unit so its basically one guy with a bunch of wounds and guns (at least as far as close combat is concerned) and he gets 8 shots at 12 inches with plasma. 8 shots. Lord with master crafted plasma pistol, acolyte with plasma pistol, three warriors with plasma rifles, two sages for a juicy gets hot reroll, and a rhino transport. Not a bad deal and its one of the better "oh look i got a surprise in this rhino for your command squad" tactics for changing the look on your opponents face. If you wanna go crazy you can put em in a LRC and suddenly you have a unit that can just about one shot a squad of anything. 1 multi-melta, 12 reroll bolters, 3 assault cannon rerolls, and 8 shots of plasma can munch even a vaunted termy squad with TH/SS Unless they make some crazy good saves.

 

Good suggestion as a Killer oriented HQ choice against infantry. Can you do something similar with them as a Firebase or Hunter/Killer against armor? My experience with =I= retinues is that hand to hand is a BAD idea.

[Castus Xanthis]

You can tool them both ways. The Crusader henchmen give the Inquisitor WS 5 and they have a 4++ save and two ccw's for loads of attacks. The inquisitor can also take a Chirurgeon or two to negate a wound in combat, a familiar to increase his I to 5, Acolytes for wounds and enough wargear to make himself useful.

 

Inquisitor Lord

Power Weapon

Inferno Pistol

Rosarius

3 Crusader Henchmen

Familiar

2 Chirurgeons

3 acolytes each with power armor + BP\CCW

Total: 245 Points

 

14 Power weapon attacks on the charge with 5 being at WS: 5 and I: 5 the rest at WS: 4 I: 3

15 regular attacks on the charge at WS: 3 I: 3

 

On top of this you can add Scourging (Assault d6, S: 5 Ap:5) or more wargear to increase K.

 

The acolytes can drop their weapons for meltabombs and the Inquisitor can add meltabombs to increase Anti Tank capability.

[Warp Angel]

You can tool them both ways. The Crusader henchmen give the Inquisitor WS 5 and they have a 4++ save and two ccw's for loads of attacks. The inquisitor can also take a Chirurgeon or two to negate a wound in combat, a familiar to increase his I to 5, Acolytes for wounds and enough wargear to make himself useful.

 

Inquisitor Lord

Power Weapon

Inferno Pistol

Rosarius

3 Crusader Henchmen

Familiar

2 Chirurgeons

3 acolytes each with power armor + BP\CCW

Total: 245 Points

 

14 Power weapon attacks on the charge with 5 being at WS: 5 and I: 5 the rest at WS: 4 I: 3

15 regular attacks on the charge at WS: 3 I: 3

 

On top of this you can add Scourging (Assault d6, S: 5 Ap:5) or more wargear to increase K.

 

The acolytes can drop their weapons for meltabombs and the Inquisitor can add meltabombs to increase Anti Tank capability.

 

I've tried that loadout. The overall low Sv, S3, I3, and T3 make the squad die faster than the opponent does. Though I haven't gone the 2 Chiurgeon route. That might be the difference maker.

 

what's the squad cost (don't have my codex anywhere near handy)

[foster]

For the record my favorite two HQ choices (in order) are Captain on a Bike and Pedro Kantor.

Warp Angel, what have been your experiences of using Pedro Kantor since you wrote this article on HQ choices. Is he still your second favourite choice?

 

At 1500pts I've been running Pedro with some Grey Knights and have mixed feelings with the results. Inspiring Presence is great and helps the Grey Knights (and any other unit within range) excel in combat, but Pedro himself has performed quite badly at killing anything, and with a 3+/4++ save he gets targeted and killed quite easily in my experience. I have therefore gone with a basic Chaplain and a Holy Relic on the Justicar in the last few games to save a few points. Whilst often effective it has made this unit very one dimensional and a bit boring.

 

I guess I'm wandering if you've had similar experiences or if you still rate him very highly?

 

 

Wouldn't Ortan Cassius be the better choice for a basic chaplain since his toughness 6 almost makes him immune to instant death, may even help him survive when targeted by hidden powerfists. It's also another charactor that brings hellfire rounds for MC targeting as well as a flamer template to thin down hordes. May even consider replacing Pedro for Cassius with my Terminator Assault squad and Land Raider Crusador.

 

Any thoughts on this?

[Blood Scorpion]

Cassius is a good shout, thanks. It does mean one less Grey Knight, but it will make my HQ much harder and more of a threat, I think I'll give it a go!

 

I love Pedro, but can't stomach taking a 175pts Character and not getting him stuck in and I don't really play with a "formation" of any size for him to sit behind and grant +1 Attacks to at 1500pts. I think he'll remain on the subs bench then until I play a larger game!

[foster]

I was wondering does Pedro give 1+ attack while in the Land Raider? If so couldn't you just leave him in there while the CC specialists (Termies or Grey Knights) assualt out of the Land Raider? May help with keeping him out of harms way while still getting his benifits.

 

True you are not getting full use out of him while he's in a Land Raider like his Orbital Bombardment attack, but at least you're still getting Stubbon for your army, and hopefully if I'm right a Land Raider that convers 1+ attack 12" from the hull.

 

BTW Blood Scorpion can you tell us how well Cassius performs once you've had a few matches.

[kaiserstole20]

I like Lysander paired with shooty terminators. 10 terminators w/2x CML is pretty expensive but it forms a big block of nasty in the middle of your line that can move and shoot and gets to re-roll storm bolter misses. The CMLs make it even uglier, a unit that the opponent has to deal with.

 

I use Lysander to take a couple of lascannons (or other nasty weapons) to the face and spare the terminators. Get in CC? Good luck with Lysander and a bunch of power fists. Try to hit it with lots of small arms? I bet I get to you first with the 24" on the storm bolters and 48" on the missile launchers. Ignore them? Yeah, right.

[Olesh]

I was wondering does Pedro give 1+ attack while in the Land Raider? If so couldn't you just leave him in there while the CC specialists (Termies or Grey Knights) assualt out of the Land Raider? May help with keeping him out of harms way while still getting his benifits.

 

True you are not getting full use out of him while he's in a Land Raider like his Orbital Bombardment attack, but at least you're still getting Stubbon for your army, and hopefully if I'm right a Land Raider that convers 1+ attack 12" from the hull.

 

BTW Blood Scorpion can you tell us how well Cassius performs once you've had a few matches.

 

Edit: On actually reviewing the rulebook, you CAN dump the squad and keep Pedro by himself in the land raider. This boggles the mind.

[greymeister]

Inquisitor Lord

Power Weapon

Inferno Pistol

Rosarius

3 Crusader Henchmen

Familiar

2 Chirurgeons

3 acolytes each with power armor + BP\CCW

Total: 245 Points

 

This squad is also 1 blast shot away from history. Also not sure how acolyte rules work now but with the random wound allocation it's alot more likely that the ones you don't want to die will die first. I wasn't a huge fan (read: not a fan at all) of these retinues in 4th and I think they are way easier to kill in 5th.

 

Shoot a blast weapon at Calgar and it just makes him angry :P

[Gornall]

I like Lysander paired with shooty terminators. 10 terminators w/2x CML is pretty expensive but it forms a big block of nasty in the middle of your line that can move and shoot and gets to re-roll storm bolter misses. The CMLs make it even uglier, a unit that the opponent has to deal with.

 

I use Lysander to take a couple of lascannons (or other nasty weapons) to the face and spare the terminators. Get in CC? Good luck with Lysander and a bunch of power fists. Try to hit it with lots of small arms? I bet I get to you first with the 24" on the storm bolters and 48" on the missile launchers. Ignore them? Yeah, right.

 

I want to try this sometime for fun. 660 points of pure shooty (and PF) death...

[kaiserstole20]

I like Lysander paired with shooty terminators. 10 terminators w/2x CML is pretty expensive but it forms a big block of nasty in the middle of your line that can move and shoot and gets to re-roll storm bolter misses. The CMLs make it even uglier, a unit that the opponent has to deal with.

 

I use Lysander to take a couple of lascannons (or other nasty weapons) to the face and spare the terminators. Get in CC? Good luck with Lysander and a bunch of power fists. Try to hit it with lots of small arms? I bet I get to you first with the 24" on the storm bolters and 48" on the missile launchers. Ignore them? Yeah, right.

 

I want to try this sometime for fun. 660 points of pure shooty (and PF) death...

 

I ran it in a 1000 point game once. 2x vanilla marine squads, Lysander and Friends. Wasn't such a bad list on a 4x4 table. Lack of mobility hurts for sure. It's more feasible in 1500 points.

[Henshini]

I wonder if you're able to get the same, or better effect from a unit of no-jump pack Vanguard and your Captain, borrowing someone else's Razorback than you do from a command squad. The loadout options are different, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

 

It terms of points cost for what you get at basic (no upgrades), the only difference is that the Vanguard come with a Power Weapon built in (for which you pay points), while the Command Squad get an Apothecary instead of a Veteran (at a cost of 5 points more for the whole squad having significantly increased D).

 

In terms of options, the Command Squad get everything the Vanguard do, except the option of a Relic Blade for the Sergeant (for some reason the Vanguard Sergeant can have one, but the Company Champion can't!) and the Jump Packs.

 

In addition, the Command Squad get a whole bunch of shooty options (Storm Bolter, Special and Combi Weapons), and the options of a Company Champion, Company Banner and Bikes.

 

Unless you actually need Heroic Intervention, don't want to take a Captain, or have already filled your HQ choices, Command Squad beats Vanguard every day of the week.

 

Vanguard can be upped to 10 where a command squad can't. There are a bunch of things that ignore FNP, you can't ignore extra bodies, especially when they have 15 attacks between them.