Who is the least played God army

[minigun762]

From what I can see over in the army list section, I'd say its not Nurgle or Khorne. That leaves Tzeentch and Slaanesh and of the two, I'd have to think it was Slaanesh. Few people seem like they play with the dark prince and I can only assume its because its not as obviously killy as Khorne and the least survivable of all the 4 Gods probably.

 

For me though, the whole "Fleet" thing just makes it. In an army all about assaulting (for the most part) being able to run then charge just seems like such a big bonus. Coupled with the Grenade equivalents, it seems like you could easily do the scary fast moving horde of Daemonettes and just rip out the opponent's heart before they're able to down enough of you.

 

The only downside I can see is that overall weakness of the troops. T3 kinda sucks, but just like Guardsmen, if you throw enough bodies at something and keep them in cover, you should be able to survive long enough to do some good damage.

[Brother Nihm]

*thwack*

 

Topic moved.

[==Me==]

I agree that Slaanesh gets the least love. Oddly enough, I'm running a Tzeentch/Slaanesh mix and it is quite successful. What they lack on staying power they make up for in speed and shooting. Fiends are surprisingly tough with 2 wounds and with so many rending attacks and cavalry movement they can hit anything. With Fateweaver in the mix they will stick around for quite some time.

[Raptor1313]

Slaaneshi Fiends are truly absurd. In numbers? 5 base attacks, S4...it's some kind of disgusting. They can do some serious damage on the charge.

 

Slaanesh, though, really does have to go in numbers because of their durability. T3, 5+ means that it's really not hard to cut whole swathes of them down with a decent shooty army. Additionally, you need the numbers because WS4, S3 isn't terribly killy either.

 

Khorne, though, is pretty much the kings in melee.

 

Let's look at some of the nastiest non-daemon assault units in the game. Some on the list include:

Nobs

Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield Terminators

Death Company

Genestealers

 

Nobs are a special target for everyone because they can get a nice, big, mixed unit for wound-allocation, have two wounds apiece, AND get feel no pain. They're pretty much a no-brainer choice for Orkoids into assault, or even at home holding up Power Klaws.

 

Daemonettes need 5+ to wound, 6's at least rend...to take out, say, 10 footslogging nobs...well, the average daemonette throws 3 attacks. 1.5 hit, and 0.25 rend on average. With FNP, each Nob is good for absorbing 8(!!!) wounds before dying, assuming a 4+ save. Daemonettes have a hell of a time chewing through that, and the sheer volume of S4 counter-attacks coming back at them will maul them. Fiends have the same problem; they have a better base strength, but still don't have the sheer sticking power you want.

 

Bloodletters? Power weapons laugh at FNP. If the BLs recieve the charge, each one is good for 2/3 of a wound. Not great odds, but power weapons ignore the FNP. On the charge? They'll probably whipe the floor with the Nobs, with about ~2 wounds per letter. Pure and simple.

 

Death Company is a similar story, except they'll get the charge on you. People with decent armor saves and FNP are better dealt with by massed power weapons.

 

Vs. the Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield Terminators?

These guys have ABSURD durability. Daemonettes have to throw a LOT of mud, all of which then lands on 2+/3++ saves. The hammer-nators at least won't KILL a lot of the girls, but then there are fearles wounds, and no daemon unit can handle those.

 

Bloodletters ignore the 2+, and if they can get the charge (...even if they can't) the power weapons and higher strength arej ust going to do better.

 

The one thing that 'nettes do better than any of the other daemon units in terms of lethality is kill off hordes better.

 

@==Me==

I'd say Fateweaver makes anyything stick around a while...

I daresay that Fateweaver + Skarbrand + Daemonettes = Nasty.

[==Me==]

Daemonettes have tons of attacks, high I, grenades low cost and fleet over Bloodletters. Bletters are likely to kill more, but you can fit in more 'nettes and they'll hit combat sooner.

 

And yes, Fateweaver makes everything better :)

[minigun762]

awesomeness

 

Jeez Raptor, I was just commenting on your excellent advice on the Nurgle Daemon Princes and look what you did here, even more goodness.

 

==ME==: Funnily enough, that was the combination I wanted to use. Horde of Daemonettes and Horrors backed up by some Soul Grinders. Kind of work with the idea that if you pump enough shots/attacks into something, they tend to fall over and die.

Like you mentioned, its the speed of Daemonettes that really pulls me in.

[eyescrossed]

Slaaneshi Fiends are truly absurd. In numbers? 5 base attacks, S4...it's some kind of disgusting. They can do some serious damage on the charge.

Fiends are base strength 5.

[Sons of Horus]

Tzeentch is the forgotten one :(. he always gets the short end of the stick. he is the only Chaos god i have seen mispronounced and misspelled so many times that i can't remember anymore. so sad :( but just wait until the FW lord of change comes forth >:(

[Captain Malachi]

Just from the army lists I've seen in the list sections of a couple of forums, I'll have to say it's Tzeentch, I've only seen one mono-Tzeentch army list posted, but I've seen at least 4 mono-Slaanesh armies.

[minigun762]

Just from the army lists I've seen in the list sections of a couple of forums, I'll have to say it's Tzeentch, I've only seen one mono-Tzeentch army list posted, but I've seen at least 4 mono-Slaanesh armies.

 

Well maybe if Tzeentch decided to hit something or stab at someone, he's have more followers.

Lets face it, you play what is widely considered to be an assault/HtH army and you have one god who couldn't swing a fist to save his damned soul.

 

Though who hasn't thought about lots of Horrors and Warpfire spamming?

60 naked Horrors is only 1020 points but thats 180 S4 shots, 90 hits, 45 dead Orks or 15 dead MEQs a turn. ;)

[Primarch Naogedd]

In the interest of fairness, I'd just like to note that even against Guardsmen, Bloodletters will outkill Daemonettes even when adjusted for points. Also, while Daemonettes are faster, Bloodletters have T4.

 

Just thought I'd pitch that in.

[Sons of Horus]

or maybe its cuz Tzeentch doesn't exactly have that many choices. only 3 or 4 types of units for him. look at khorne, he has so manyn choices for units and so it ends up being more interesting. if GW added Tzeentchy units i'm pretty sure he'd have more followers.

[Captain Malachi]

@Sons of Horus: Tzeentch and Khorne both have 8 choices, 2 greater daemons, 2 heralds, an elite, a troops choice, a fast attack, and their own princes.

[Sons of Horus]

what i meant was types! you know, variety. Khorne has bloodthirster, herald, skulltaker, and a lot of others. Tzeentch only has lord of change, flamers, screamers, and horrors.

[eyescrossed]

what i meant was types! you know, variety. Khorne has bloodthirster, herald, skulltaker, and a lot of others. Tzeentch only has lord of change, flamers, screamers, and horrors.

Horrors - great firepower.

Flamers - mobile cover cleansers.

Lord of Change - Great mobile anti-anything.

Screamers - Very mobile anti-tank.

Herald of Tzeentch - same as lord of change but a little less killyness.

Tzeentch Princes - great in combat and shooting, also durable.

Fateweaver - makes your entire army tougher.

Blue Scribes - jack of all trades.

Changeling - can potentially make an opposing army kill itself.

 

;) That sure is a bland army.

[Captain Malachi]

@Sons of Horus: Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but they both have the exact same amount of variety, only difference is Khorne goes for CC while Tzeentch goes for shootyness, so really, Tzeentch is better off, since at least his princes and greater daemons can do both.

[minigun762]

In the interest of fairness, I'd just like to note that even against Guardsmen, Bloodletters will outkill Daemonettes even when adjusted for points. Also, while Daemonettes are faster, Bloodletters have T4.

 

Just thought I'd pitch that in.

 

Really? well thats not what I'd expect.

 

That brings up the question of when will Daemonettes outperform Bloodletters? With the change to Rending, it won't beat out a Power Weapon against the vast majority of guys so you're relying on that higher I and more attacks to carry the day.

[Captain Malachi]

I'd personally like to see the math hammer that shows that 'letters will beat 'nettes against guardsmen. I'm too lazy to work it out myself.

[minigun762]

I'd personally like to see the math hammer that shows that 'letters will beat 'nettes against guardsmen. I'm too lazy to work it out myself.

 

Here is what I've found. This will be adjusted for points to keep it equal and both Daemons will get the charge. Guardsman will not be in cover which is an advantage to Bloodletters (I think if they were, it would be too much of an advantage for Daemonettes as the Bloodletters could lose some before they attack)

 

112 points = 7 Blood Letters

 

Charge: 7x3 attacks @ WS5 = 14 hits @ S5 = 11.66 dead Guardsmen

2nd Round: 7x2 attacks @ WS5 = 9.33 hits @ S4 = 6.22 dead Guardsmen

Total: 17.88 dead Guardsmen

 

112 points = 8 Daemonettes

 

Charge: 8x4 attacks @ WS4 = 21.33 hits @ S3 = 10.66 wounds x 0.833 non rends = 8.88 wounds x 0.66 chance to fail armor save = 5.91 + 1.78 rends = 7.69 dead Guardsmen

2nd Round: 8x3 attacks @ WS4 = 16 hits @ S3 = 8 wounds x 0.8333 non rends = 6.66 wounds x 0.66 chance to fail armor save = 4.44 + 1.33 rends = 5.77 dead Guardsmen

Total: 13.46 dead Guardsmen

 

This means that point for point, Bloodletters are approximately 33% more killy than Daemonettes.

[Wolf89]

I'd personally like to see the math hammer that shows that 'letters will beat 'nettes against guardsmen. I'm too lazy to work it out myself.

 

Here is what I've found. This will be adjusted for points to keep it equal and both Daemons will get the charge. Guardsman will not be in cover which is an advantage to Bloodletters (I think if they were, it would be too much of an advantage for Daemonettes as the Bloodletters could lose some before they attack)

 

112 points = 7 Blood Letters

 

Charge: 7x3 attacks @ WS5 = 14 hits @ S5 = 11.66 dead Guardsmen

2nd Round: 7x2 attacks @ WS5 = 9.33 hits @ S4 = 6.22 dead Guardsmen

Total: 17.88 dead Guardsmen

 

112 points = 8 Daemonettes

 

Charge: 8x4 attacks @ WS4 = 21.33 hits @ S3 = 10.66 wounds x 0.833 non rends = 8.88 wounds x 0.66 chance to fail armor save = 5.91 + 1.78 rends = 7.69 dead Guardsmen

2nd Round: 8x3 attacks @ WS4 = 16 hits @ S3 = 8 wounds x 0.8333 non rends = 6.66 wounds x 0.66 chance to fail armor save = 4.44 + 1.33 rends = 5.77 dead Guardsmen

Total: 13.46 dead Guardsmen

 

This means that point for point, Bloodletters are approximately 33% more killy than Daemonettes.

 

Wow I hate to revive this but I have a few things to add so why not...

 

First I think both Tzeentch and Slaanesh feel less of the love, but they are still common, just in smaller numbers on the board, a unit of horrors with changeling is always nice, a unit of daemonettes are always fun.

 

As per the above quoted post, figure those points getting shot at before the charge (common), and LIKELY the daemonettes will only get shot at once, bloodletters it's depending on how balsy you were it might be once. So that guardsman squad (20-man sounds reasonable) for the charge to be practical it's within rapid fire, so that's 40 flash lights at S3 BS3, So 20 hit, against BL's that's 6.667 wounds, 4.46 dead BL's. Against DN's, that's 10 wounds 6.667 wounds.

 

This of course means NOTHING overall, just that deployment of your guys is everything and that taking chances has it's rewards and flash lights actually do hurt without armour. From a practical standpoint, I have yet to see good IG lists where there's 20 guardsman in a unit, I just went off your CC where there were 17+ guardsman to kill for the BL's, so unless you're getting some nice multiple assaults, I don't see it happening too much, likely 10 guardsman with a special in there or something. :huh:

 

Blood for the blood god! Snot for the snot god! Change for the change god (note this isn't Obama I'm speaking of)! [insert messed up crazy perverted stuff here] for the fun god! ;)