eyescrossed Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 You know Alpharius' bro, Omegon? Well I was wondering, does anyone think he has anything to do with one of the lost legions, because even though he did public speaking instead of Alpharius sometimes, maybe... I dunno, maybe he was the primarch of a different legion? EDIT: Mods, sorry, accidentally posted in amicus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155760-omegon/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 Unfortunately not, this has been discussed many times and has been discarded on all occasions. In Horus heresy book Legion, they quite clearly state that the two are the first primarch twin, two halves of the same soul. The only conspiracy theory to be made is how does Guilliman know he killed Alpharius and not Omegon??? They are after all twins!! GC08 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155760-omegon/#findComment-1819742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mughi3 Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 Or if he even managed to kill either one, they all try to look alike and the sarge was almost as big as his primarch. Remember the story was being told by somebody who later disapeared and may have been an alpha legion spy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155760-omegon/#findComment-1819858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharn_the_betrayer Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 Wasn't the book told by one of their operatives and grammaticus (sp) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155760-omegon/#findComment-1820402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravo-52 Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 The only conspiracy theory to be made is how does Guilliman know he killed Alpharius and not Omegon???They are after all twins!! GC08 Papa smurf didn't even know there were two. Very few poeple knew about the twin primarchs, and the other primarchs were non-the-wiser. Papa smurf killed one but which one? Right now nobody knows. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155760-omegon/#findComment-1820706 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensis Ferrae Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 yes, well we know the AL is known for subterfuge..but really all they had to do was put a mirror in front of papa smurf, and he'd be distracted by his dashing good looks (and he needed to make sure his pompadour haircut stayed right), so they replaced Alpharius and Omegon with their big Sgt, and got away to do what they do best. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155760-omegon/#findComment-1822070 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP13 Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 The only conspiracy theory to be made is how does Guilliman know he killed Alpharius and not Omegon???They are after all twins!! GC08 Papa smurf didn't even know there were two. Very few poeple knew about the twin primarchs, and the other primarchs were non-the-wiser. Papa smurf killed one but which one? Right now nobody knows. In all likelihood, Papa Smurf probably didn't kill either of them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155760-omegon/#findComment-1822275 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lay Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 A double wouldn't have worked. If the Ultramarines ever saw two Alpha Legionnaires without their helmets on they would've been aware of such an obvious trick. It'd take more to fool a primarch like that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155760-omegon/#findComment-1822755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Favoured of the Emperor Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 I don't believe that either was killed by Guilliman. There were the sergeant that could masquerade as both primarchsand the fact the smurf making records turned out to be a traitor. FOE Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155760-omegon/#findComment-1822959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lay Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 There were the sergeant that could masquerade as both primarchs Only with their helmets on. If people like Dinas Chayne and John Grammaticus could spot the differences by looking at them then someone like Guilliman who met his brother in person could've done it as well. The fact the smurf making records turned out to be a traitor Nothing was ever found out about that guy. The Ultramarines simply questioned the validity of his records. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155760-omegon/#findComment-1822990 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noserenda Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 In the Heat of battle? And with no chance to examine the body? Seems likely it was an Impostor. Id also imagine killing one of the Twins probably kills them both seeing as they are in fact one person.. :wacko: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155760-omegon/#findComment-1823830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrox Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 I think one could survive without the other Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155760-omegon/#findComment-1824876 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyp100 Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Indeed, it's not Hellboy 2. :P But I do think that the Primarchs either both survived, or one died...But who knows, seem like GW is never gonna release new fluff about the AL anyway...Unless there making a new Campaign with them...THAT would be AWESOME. :blink: ^_^ But none died IMO, just Ultra-Smurfs showing off, or so BS like that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155760-omegon/#findComment-1824894 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 But who knows, seem like GW is never gonna release new fluff about the AL anyway...Unless there making a new Campaign with them...THAT would be AWESOME. Check the Siege of Vraks part 1. If you army isn't recieving much love, look to Forgeworld and your prayers will be answered. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155760-omegon/#findComment-1825074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyp100 Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Don't have money to buy ANYTHING FW. xD They cost so much, and I'm just a teenage kid. :) Also, I don't play the AL, I just love there fluff, and think they are cool...Stupid HH covers, always make everything SM feel epic, which GW models had that epic-ness in there models without making us convert to get it that cool. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155760-omegon/#findComment-1825091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot Of Chaos Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 don't forget the fact that there is a 95% probability that the army you are about to play against has Alpha Legion spread throughout it waiting, of course there is a 95% chance for your army as well so really against such skill what hope could a Smurf have, any other chapter maybe, but smurfs.. nah Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155760-omegon/#findComment-1825431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lay Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 In the Heat of battle?The battle ebbed away when both primarchs met. And with no chance to examine the body?Why no chance? The Ultramarines were in possession of his body after the battle. But who knows, seem like GW is never gonna release new fluff about the AL anyway...Nonsense, there was and is plenty of fluff around. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155760-omegon/#findComment-1825542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aveangelismortis Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Well he(guiliman) did have a chance to examine the body, because he burned it after the smurfs won the battle, although I don't think that it was either, pech was a big guy and put in grand enough armor robute would see what he wanted to, and beleieve his brother dead. Of course the fact remains that the validity of that record was only something like 60 percent, and the inquisitor who uncovered it went rogue, so I believe either way the primarchs are alive. Of course I also believe they haven't really gone over to chaos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155760-omegon/#findComment-1825575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Isn't everyone forgetting the fact that Primarchs outmatch regular marines in combat? I would think Roboute against a regular marine (even if it is a veteran sarge) would have been one sided. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155760-omegon/#findComment-1826557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigger-than-Jesus Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Isn't everyone forgetting the fact that Primarchs outmatch regular marines in combat? I would think Roboute against a regular marine (even if it is a veteran sarge) would have been one sided. Exactly like how it is in the IA article perhaps? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155760-omegon/#findComment-1826627 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lay Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Exactly like how it is in the IA article perhaps?Since IA describes how "Alpharius" manages to cut through the Ultramarines with ease before facing Guilleman, no. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155760-omegon/#findComment-1827021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serraphim Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 There were the sergeant that could masquerade as both primarchs Only with their helmets on. If people like Dinas Chayne and John Grammaticus could spot the differences by looking at them then someone like Guilliman who met his brother in person could've done it as well. This is all well and good, but it is unknown whether or not Papa Smurf had met Alpharius in person. So far the only 2 people (outside of the legion itself) that we can guarantee know who Alpharis really is, is Horus and the Emperor. It is also reasonable, given the secretive nature of the twins, to have genetically modified one of their Marines to be as close to a them as they can, as seen with the remarkable resemblance that Sheen has. I would go on to say that it was in fact Sheen acting as Alpharius who Papa Smurf met, and not an actual primarch. Part Grammaticus' psychic power was that you couldn't lie to him, unless he was being blocked by a more power psyker. Also Chayne isn't able to tell the difference between the twins and Sheen. He was unable to tell the first time he struck Sheen, when Sheen was talking to Namarjita and when he struck Sheen the second time. This is taken from the Legion Analysis thread on the BL forum. I can't validate its source as of right now, but it has not been contested, so it appears to be valid. Originally posted by Alpharius’s “Death” There was a long pause, neither Primarch moving an inch, then both struck in an instant. Each sword made a single stroke and then both were till again. For a second, the two great men stood facing, before Alpharius slumped to the ground. As you can see there was no titanic battle, it was nothing more than a single stroke, so Guilliman wouldn't have had a chance to realise that it wasn't a primarch that he was facing. As for what the 2 of them are up to, its impossible to tell. The Alpha Legion does not dwell within the Eye, they are still recruiting from Imperial worlds, mainly due to the fact that their "homeworld" is unknown. My best guess is that they are hunting down the Cabal, similar to the Dark Angeles quest for the fallen. As the Cabal are the only ones that know the truth about Alpharius and Omegon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155760-omegon/#findComment-1833780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 This is all well and good, but it is unknown whether or not Papa Smurf had met Alpharius in person. According to the Alpha Legion Index Astartes (and not the "questionable" part) Guilliman and Alpharius did meet before the heresy and had a heated debate over "proper" Astartes combat doctrine. So they indeed have met before. As you can see there was no titanic battle, it was nothing more than a single stroke, so Guilliman wouldn't have had a chance to realise that it wasn't a primarch that he was facing. That quote alone is misleading as it seems. This bit comes right before the duel: "As we closed upon the traitors, Alpharius himself led a counterattack and charged headlong back down the rocky slope with his bodyguard and slammed into our line. Not even Ultramarines could stand before a Primarch, and his powersword felled every noble Space Marine within reach." And this bit comes after the duel, after the remaining Alpha Legionaires are cut down: "The body of the dead Primarch was burned on a great pyre, and Lord Guilliman allowed us a moment of prayer and reflection on our success before issuing orders to move out and commence the destruction of the leaderless enemy." That does paint a different picture, and both the actions before and after the duel seem to leave littel doubt that it really was Alpharius. IF the whole report is truthfull anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155760-omegon/#findComment-1833808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serraphim Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I just want preface this by saying I'm only "arguing" because I love all of GWs fluff. According to the Alpha Legion Index Astartes (and not the "questionable" part) Guilliman and Alpharius did meet before the heresy and had a heated debate over "proper" Astartes combat doctrine. So they indeed have met before. The IA also failed to mention Omegon. I still believe that it is fully within the Alpha Legions realm to be able to deceive a primarch. That whole argument could have been with Sheen, and given the practices and tactics of the Alpha Legion it is more likely that it was Sheen and not one of the Twins. That quote alone is misleading as it seems. This bit comes right before the duel: "As we closed upon the traitors, Alpharius himself led a counterattack and charged headlong back down the rocky slope with his bodyguard and slammed into our line. Not even Ultramarines could stand before a Primarch, and his powersword felled every noble Space Marine within reach." And this bit comes after the duel, after the remaining Alpha Legionaires are cut down: "The body of the dead Primarch was burned on a great pyre, and Lord Guilliman allowed us a moment of prayer and reflection on our success before issuing orders to move out and commence the destruction of the leaderless enemy." That does paint a different picture, and both the actions before and after the duel seem to leave littel doubt that it really was Alpharius. IF the whole report is truthfull anyway. The only thing that I have to say to that is that Lucius accomplished practically the same thing on Istivaan III, when he was trying to get to Loken. Also, both Khârn and Abaddon were noted as being second best to their respective primarchs. A clone of both Alpharius and Omegon would be close enough to their power that he would have easily walked through basic marines, but failing to best an actual Primarch. Again most of this is speculation and way too many spy movies/books/comics. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155760-omegon/#findComment-1833839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 The IA also failed to mention Omegon That's most likely because there was no Omegon when the Index Astartes was written. Omegon was cooked up by Dan Abnett for the Horus Heresy novel. So it is indeed the intention of the Index Astartes that Alpharius had the debate with Guilliman. Again most of this is speculation and way too many spy movies/books/comics. I suspect Abnett has been inspired somewhat by "The Prestige" for his story. A clone of both Alpharius and Omegon would be close enough to their power that he would have easily walked through basic marines Makes you wonder why the Emperor did not build the entire Space Marine Legions out of Primarchs... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155760-omegon/#findComment-1833857 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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