Victory Points in Annihalation

[Narthecium]

So the other day we are playing Annihalation against a guy...he has a single 3,000 point army loaded with special characters (Lysander, the scout sniper guy, and Sicarius) and two LR redeemers. He also other than that has two termie squads and two vindis (obviously used a LRR as a dedicated transport so he could bring all these heavies, no biggie).

 

I have a 1500 point force of marines (mostly bikes, two whirlies, an ironclad or two, etc.) and my ally has a 1500 point army of orks (lootas, boyz, etc..mostly footsloggers).

 

Anyways here is my basic question:

 

Does every single squad of my ally's orks seriously count as a single victory point, the same as my opponent's LRR? Because the thought that a squad of boyz (whatever the very basic boy is called, can't remember) is worth the same amount towards victory as a Land Raider. Likewise, I find it hard to believe that his squad of ten sternguard with Lysander is the same points value towards victory as my one dread and a tac squad. The points difference for fielding them is amazing.

 

 

What happens if an army simply has more squads than another? Say, he brings one HQ, two troops, and three elites, and my buddy brings two HQS, two troops, two fast, and two heavy? That's a six versus eight...so barring wiping the board with him, there's seriously zero ways my buddy can win?

 

I'm sorry, I don't have my rulebook with me right now and I'm stuck at my station for another 9 hours or so and the question is killing me. I don't think I understand this whole victory points thing yet as I havent' had a lot of time to update myself with 5th ed, only maybe 3-4 games.

[Reglor]

Everything that counts as a single unit on the board and every IC gives a kill point. So, yes a tricked out Land Raider is worth the same as an ork squad, or even a rhino.

[Narthecium]

See that's what I thought. And that's just crazy to me, it doesn't make a lotta sense. It encourages you to bring super high point sink units, I don't dig it at all.

[HiveFleetEzekial]

'Welcome to 5th edition'. Complaining about it will solve nothing. Adapt, or don't, your choice. Look on the bright side: could be worse. You *could* be playing guad, who, by default, have the highest amount of KP(Kill points. VP are only in the back of the book, for tie breaker situations) they can award, even if both sides take the minimum number of FOC slots of 1HQ and 2 troops. KP missions, not just Annihilation, are more about attrition, than *just* beating the crap out of the enemy, and holding an objective. Maybe it's time to develop some new tactics and strategies to adapt to the change.

[Narthecium]

Nobody's complaining, griping, fussing, or using any other word that refers to sitting there whining. Fact of the matter is it doesn't make sense to me and I just don't like it.

 

My tactics are fine, thanks...only reason we lost the game was because the orks lost 12 squads. I only lost two, and I took out twelve of the other guys. :lol:

[spike12225]

why complain when he has all that elite stuff soaking up points considering theres a 2/3 chance of rolling an objective based game just deal with it we all have

[maniclurker]

Why worry at all when you can just kill all of his crap. If you kill all of his crap, you win, regardless of the scenario. Hence, the reason why a balanced force is still pretty necessary. Bringing 5 badass things are fine, until a vindicator smacks a few of them down, and simply applying the right force takes out the rest.

[DevianID]

Also, dont forget that you were not playing a standard 'by the book' game. For example, you had 2 FOC, one for you and one for the orks, did the space marine player have 2 FOC? If not, then he could take less units overall, as he has half the available spots as the 2 of you, but he also has less required troops mandatory, meaning he can spend more on elite units than you two can. And since in a kill point game scoring units of troops have no objectives, the army that has fewer troops and more elite units is better off, as is the army with fewer units overall.

 

Thus, I think you might have less problems with the mission rules from the book, and more problems with your house rule to represent a 2v1 senario.

 

Finally, the kill point rules along with the objective rules and deployment types, IMHO, represent some of the most balanced missions the game has ever seen. But, the lynchpin to the system being balanced is the fact that the mission is randomly determined at the start of the battle after army lists are finalized, as this ensures no one tries to optimize their list to a single mission, they must instead build their army to be able to deal with any mission.

 

In your senario, for example, what if the mission had been 5 objectives with dawn of war deployment? Here, you would have more scoring units, lots of cheap orks to hold ground, and the ability to deploy 2 HQ and 4 Troops, since you were playing 2v1. Now, instead of your senario favoring the marine player in the kill point mission, it favors you with objectives and dawn of war? Is that fair? Yes, of course, because you didnt know that mission was going to come up... rock paper scissor essentially in 40k form.

 

(LOL, though about the sig that goes something like 'Dear GW, please fix Paper--Paper is broken; Scissor is just fine; sincerly, Rock.')

[Narthecium]

I hate to say this again, but I will:

 

Nobody's complaining, griping, fussing, or using any other word that refers to sitting there whining.

 

 

Thanks for the input though. And have any of you really ever managed to kill 3000 points of stuff in six turns, when your ally's army was basically decimated? Yeah.

 

 

Not to mention he brought Lysander drop podding in a squad of sternguard, Sicarius, Telos, two Land Raider Redeemers loaded with termie squads, and devastators sitting in the far back of the board. So it's not like he brought anything that we could simply walk over, he had hella tough stuff tying up all the lanes of fire. There was NO way that game was ending with either side wiped in six turns.

 

DevianID's post made the most sense to me as I hadn't considered it from that angle.

 

Posts like "deal with it lulz" are non-constructive, and you might as well just save us both some time and your fingers some effort, and not type them out.

[Mal]

The other thing to remember is that you are allowed to use the old scenarios and VP if you want to. You do not HAVE to use KP unless an event orgainiser says so, but you'll have that info before hand.

[eyescrossed]

Do dedicated transports give a kill point?

 

Sorry, my rulebook isn't here right now ;)

[maniclurker]

Is a dedicated transport a unit?

[Frogstaff]

Is your face a unit?

 

Could anyone else give a clearer answer?

You'd have your answer if you just stopped and gave it a second's thought. Can a dedicated transport leave it's squad, go wandering around the board, shoot at its own targets, and in general behave like a seperate unit?

[Mal]

Yes