Double BikerNob lists...can our tourney lists survive 'em?

[Warp Angel]

Something that came out of the Adepticon 2009 FAQ was that storm shields can essentially absorb all the attacks of a single model. So, if you wanna go as 'all-out' as him, do the following:

 

Grandmaster, storm shield, NFW

7 x GKT's, TH+SS

(477 points)

 

BC Stern

8 x GKT's, TH+SS

(509 points)

 

Each of the Biker Boss+Biker squadrons is 500 points (give or take), so you're pretty evenly matched. Just send one after each Biker squad. Take IST's to fill your mandatory slots, SoB in the others so you keep costs down. You really just need anti-infantry to clean up the token Shoota Boyz squads he'll have following the Biker rush, maybe an Eversor or some DCA's to take out Lootas or whatever.

 

Each squad will lose about 3 guys, but you'll win combat in two rounds (one if Stern and the GM pull off their 'brain-fry' ability to kill the Warboss). Then you just chase after the remaining Boyz until they're all dead, moving the IST's/SoB onto the objectives.

 

And that list is going to beat other lists HOW? You've got 850 points left for the rest of your army, and need to deal with Drop Podding Ironclads, Land Raider Spam, Chaos Double Lash, Triple Vindicator, and Eldar Firestorm lists.

 

It's possible to take a regular army, well played, and make the Ork list lose, just by changing your army tactics from what you'd do in a standard battle.

[SamaNagol]

To be fair, that would have fun with Iron Clads climbing out of coffins. And putting Unguents of Warding on each unit would make them laugh at 2Lash. Vindicators are an issue only because there's no 3+ save from those SS! But it definitely defeats the purpose of running GK! All you're getting is the S6 Force Weapon.

[Refyougee]

Unless you spring for some Crusaders too Vindicator-heavy lists will decimate you, as will triple Fire Prism ones. I mean, I guess you could field those two squads (Losing one Termie in the Bro-Cap squad) with two Crusaders, then spend the rest on Stormtroopers and inducted Guardsmen. If you do, say, two minimum sized squads of Troopers, you still have enough points to field 45 Guardsmen and have about 20-30 points to spend on Wargear.

 

I don't think it would be a good idea but it would be funny to field !16! GK Termies with two Land Raiders and still have over 70 models.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Oh dude, I'm not suggesting it would work against other armies, I'm just saying thats something equally insane that can take down Biker Nobz. I don't think it's possible to build a 'take-all-comers' DH list and beat Biker Nobz.

 

Just use another army. DH's already have enough problems trying to build balanced, competitive lists. Biker Nobz are designed precisely to steam-roller small elite armies like ours, spamming GKT's is our only real option. I suppose you could do it if you ally the Malleus units into an IG or SM army (so you get their tanks, especially Demolisher cannons or battle cannons), but going 'pure' is just going to hobble you.

 

Landraiders really aren't a solution. On any turn you're shooting the Nobz, they're claiming 3+ cover saves against it (not to mention they can always pawn lascannon wounds onto the Warboss to prevent losing a Bike). Once they reach assault range, they have about 8-12 x S9 powerklaw attacks on the charge, not to mention 6 more from the Warboss. Doesn't matter if you moved 12" the previous turn, thats still plenty enough to destroy a Landraider. After he finishes off your Raiders, the DH's are back to being foot-sloggers.

[Refyougee]

If I can Mathhammer for a second...

 

If your Land Raider moved more than 6" (and let's pray it did!), they need 6s to hit.

 

That means if you have 3 PKs on the Nobz, two hits will be inflicted (That actually matter. And 0,83333 by the Warboss. We'll round that up to 1.

 

Chances of the squad getting 1 Penetrating hit is about 54% at this point. I rounded up the Warboss' attack so we'll assume something like a 50/50 chance of the whole squad actually getting a Pen (Nobz need 6s, Warboss needs 5-6). A result that will hurt you (Immobilised, Destroyed) happens half of the time (You took Extra Armour, right?).

 

So in the end if the squad has 3 PKs + the Warboss', there's about a 25% chance of you suffering a result that will be disadvantageous. I didn't factor in the Glancing hits because I've forgotten about them but they add about a 9% chance of getting an immobilised result. All in all the odds are about 2:1 in your favour. If he has TWO squads charging into 1 LR, well, then your odds are about a 45% of coming out relatively unscathed. That's alot of models around your LR, though.

 

That isn't *amazing* but I've gone against tougher odds. By charging into the LR the Ork player foregoes his 3+ Cover save. He still gets a 4+ which is freakin' ridiculous IMO but I guess that's how the Codex goes. Tri-raider lists can still unload a lot of wounds with incinerators and Las-Cannons and in CC the GM is amazing because he gets to single out Warbosses while being immune to the same tactic. We're also hoping that before the Nobz got into CC you killed a couple or at least inflicted some Wounds, which should help CC resolution. Fielding a couple of TH + SS Terms should help them survive in CC, and insta-kill some Nobz while they're at it.

 

So I don't think we NEED to spam Termies to beat the list. We just need to maybe modify our tactics a little bit. I mentioned the Callidus assassin a few posts back and I think that it is a good idea. If you can slow down the Nobz for even one turn you give yourself a HUGE advantage.

 

I'm building up my DH for a tourney in 2 months and I expect to face 20 biker Nobz, so I'll have to see if all of this theory works out...

[Mosk]

I play an army with 2 warboss (1 is wazzdakka or what ever that guys name is) 2x groups of 5 nobs with various upgrades (generally only two Power Klaws) and then fill the rest of my list with biker mobz (occasionally a squad of 5 deffkoptas)

 

I have faced pure grey knights, my witch hunter army, and several pure sister armies.

 

The one thing you have to keep in mind is that with this ork set up, they are lossing one of their best abilities: to over run you with numbers. You have between 4-8 (8 tops usually) targets to deal with.

 

The over all idea is to kill em, before they assualt, which is almost impossible.

 

When I played against grey knights, those termis destroyed me, he also played a few of the psy cannons ( I cant remember what they are called.) I still won him both times I played him. What I would recommend is Psy cannons, they worked against me fairly well.

 

When I played my witch hunter force, I noted that the inquisition lords killed me, I lost this game which I am amazed at. lots of bad rolls

 

 

When I played agianst sisters, I found that the exorcist is amazing. If you want to win, 3 exorcists, or 2 exorcists a immolator w/ MM and 4 MM inside, drop the MM 24 inches away and let loose. This killed me. I haveonly won once agianst the 4 games I played agianst sisters, and this ways because of my koptas capturing a table corner at the last minute.

[SamaNagol]

You are losing because you don't have enough Nob bikers. Take 10. ;)

[Mosk]

I do take ten, two squads of 5..... (why would you not take 10?)

[SamaNagol]

10 in each squad!

[Reclusiarch Darius]

That isn't *amazing* but I've gone against tougher odds. By charging into the LR the Ork player foregoes his 3+ Cover save. He still gets a 4+ which is freakin' ridiculous IMO but I guess that's how the Codex goes. Tri-raider lists can still unload a lot of wounds with incinerators and Las-Cannons and in CC the GM is amazing because he gets to single out Warbosses while being immune to the same tactic. We're also hoping that before the Nobz got into CC you killed a couple or at least inflicted some Wounds, which should help CC resolution. Fielding a couple of TH + SS Terms should help them survive in CC, and insta-kill some Nobz while they're at it.

 

Lascannon wounds get pawned onto the Warboss, and all he needs is a 4+ cover (3+ on the way in). Or he could 'meh' and just lose a non-powerklaw Bike, you still don't remove the hidden powerklaws or the Warboss. Incinerators sound good, but;

 

Normal coverage for a flamer is 7-8 models, assuming he's not insane (ie fielding 2 x 10-strong Biker squads), you should cover them all (only 6 models in the unit). You wound 3 of them (T5 vs S5), and they FNP 1-2 of the wounds. The remaining unsaved wound gets taken by a Nob. Even if you caused 3 unsaved wounds (cos he screwed up with FNP), he still doesn't lose a single model, because he'll have at least 5 different 'wound pools' to sink your incinerator wounds onto (Waagh! banner bearer, bosspole bearer, Painboy, powerklaws, Warboss).

 

Thats why they're so broken; they get all the advantages of a 'multi-wound squad' and a 'complex unit', and avoid all the downsides. Moving onto close-combat;

 

Grandmaster (with storm shield) goes first with 5 attacks (6 on the charge), hitting on 4's and wounding on 3's (Warboss by himself is T6 on Bike, but the Nob squad gimps him due to majority Toughness). You'll probably get a wound past his cybork, and fry his brain.

Retinue of GKT's is next up. They have 8 attacks (12 on the charge) that hit on 4's, wound on 3's. Orks save the wounds on 5's. You inflict 2-3 unsaved wounds, maybe kill a non-powerklaw bike.

Powerklaws hit last, with 6 attacks (8 on the charge), hitting on 4's and wounding on 2's, with you deflecting on 5's (4's on the Grandmaster). They kill 2 of the retinue, and they wound every model in the unit (5 wounds) on the charge, so you could lose your Grandmaster to a bad roll.

Next turn, Grandmaster force-weapons a bike and combined with retinue attacks kill another bike as well. The two remaining powerklaws hit out again and kill another 2 Terminators, leaving just the Grandmaster.

Next round, Grandmaster force-weapons one bike and the other runs away like a sissy.

 

So you can win (if you need to engage both at once, use Stern as your second HQ with a similiar retinue), but it will be a pretty bloody battle.

So I don't think we NEED to spam Termies to beat the list. We just need to maybe modify our tactics a little bit. I mentioned the Callidus assassin a few posts back and I think that it is a good idea. If you can slow down the Nobz for even one turn you give yourself a HUGE advantage.

 

Hmm....Callidus is good as a 'one-shot' weapon, cos she'll flame about 3 wounds off them and maybe rip another wound off in close-combat. And she'll stall them in the open for a turn, where they might die to mass lascannon (only 4+ cover). Not a bad idea actually.

 

I'm building up my DH for a tourney in 2 months and I expect to face 20 biker Nobz, so I'll have to see if all of this theory works out...

 

Oh god :o :huh: erm, all I can say is ally into a bare-bones IG list. You'll need every S8+ blast you can get your hands on (Bassie, Demolishers and battle cannons), one allied Russ isn't going to come close to what you need (and Nobz can pretty easily outmaneuver an Orbital Strike). Use the Guardsman as a living shield to screen your home objective, wait for the Nobz to chew through the first Platoon they encounter, then counter-assault with your Grandmaster and the Elite GKT squad (you can build a weaker GM in the Elite squad by swapping the BC's weapons for TH+SS, then swapping the TH for a force weapon. Yeah, its only S4, but it's still possible to fry the Warboss in the other squad). Tanks, expedendable Infantry Platoons and as many GKT as you can legally bring. 20 x Biker Nob lists often feature a follow up of 2 x 20-strong Shoota boy squads and maybe a few Outflanking Deffcoptas for anti-tank, so leave some points for Hellhounds. Hellhounds are also pretty decent for softening up the Nob Bikers prior to them hitting your lines (24" reach, wound them on 3's, only 5+ invul and FNP to save them, covers most of the unit with the template).

I play an army with 2 warboss (1 is wazzdakka or what ever that guys name is) 2x groups of 5 nobs with various upgrades (generally only two Power Klaws) and then fill the rest of my list with biker mobz (occasionally a squad of 5 deffkoptas)

 

Wazzdakka is not a Warboss, so your list is illegal. You need two Warbosses to field 2 Nob squads as Troops.

The one thing you have to keep in mind is that with this ork set up, they are lossing one of their best abilities: to over run you with numbers. You have between 4-8 (8 tops usually) targets to deal with.

 

Horde spam is unwieldly and it's really hard to disperse them effectively to prevent mass template/blast death; ask any Tyranid player. Anyway, the army ends up looking like this;

 

HQ:

 

2 x highly-mobile, S10 heroes with unmodified T5 and insane defences. Can be attached to Nob Bikers, or seperate to conduct their own tornadoes of carnage.

 

Elite:

 

Orks with D3 autocannons. Usually 10 man, hidden in hard 4+ cover in the backfield. Requires a Hellhound or repeated doses of battle cannon to deal with. That, or a Callidus (which you can't get, because you need that second squad of GKT's to deal with the Troops).

 

Troops:

 

2 x highly-mobile, insanely tough bikers. They also each have a twin-linked burst cannon mounted on their bike (same statline basically), so if you're not careful (ie Chem-Inhalers+Cameoline Doctrines), they'll shoot your Infantry Platoon line to death/fall back, thus clearing a path to your fragile Terminators.

 

2 x 20-man squads of Orks carrying avenger catapults, with hidden powerklaw. Laugh at your attempts to kill the Biker Nobz, and quietly support them with big shootas and capture objectives while the Biker Nobz draw all the fire. Hellhound or battle cannon required. They're also Fearless until you shoot half of them death, so good luck trying to break them.

 

Fast Attack:

 

What, you still have points left? Erm, basically 2-wound Warbikers that stole some jetbikes, attached a twin-linked rokkit launcher to the front and got told to 'go wide, then flank da gits' by the Warbosses prior to the battle. Make sure your tanks are providing 'hull down' to eachother from the side angle, otherwise these guys will show up to rokkit your precious ordnance to death. They've got Ld7 and aren't especially tough, so after they appear just shoot them to death/fall back.

 

Depending on how insane you make the Nob Bikers, you can field quite a variety of support units for them. Sure, in raw 'bodies on the ground' you're not very Orky, but there's still quite a diverse range of stuff to deal with, while those Nob Bikers roar across for a Turn 2 charge on your lines.

 

When I played against grey knights, those termis destroyed me, he also played a few of the psy cannons ( I cant remember what they are called.) I still won him both times I played him. What I would recommend is Psy cannons, they worked against me fairly well.

 

Firstly, you should be getting 4+ cover (3+ when turbo-ing) against his shots (psycannons DO NOT ignore cover), and he only wounds you on 3+, and you get FNP against those wounds. In close-combat, GKT's have got a lot that hurts you (S6 power weapons that hit ahead of you = pain), but between your Warboss and hidden powerklaws you should be able to crush them to death (unless he's using a GM/Stern to fry the Warboss, in which case the GK player might win).

When I played my witch hunter force, I noted that the inquisition lords killed me, I lost this game which I am amazed at. lots of bad rolls

 

Ahem, he can only have one Inquisitor Lord ^_^ . However, I think I know what build killed you; it's the

 

Lord, eviscerator, 'His Will be Done'

3 x Crusaders, 3 x Acolytes with man-catcher+power armour, 2 x Chiurgeons, Familiar

(244 points)

 

It's nice, but your Nobz can actually kill the Lord simply by massing their bike guns into him. You hit on 5's (with re-rolls) and wound all of the squad on 2's; he ignores the first wound but the rest will just keep piling up. Once you've shot most of the unit to death, charge in and hack the Lord to death.

When I played agianst sisters, I found that the exorcist is amazing. If you want to win, 3 exorcists, or 2 exorcists a immolator w/ MM and 4 MM inside, drop the MM 24 inches away and let loose. This killed me. I haveonly won once agianst the 4 games I played agianst sisters, and this ways because of my koptas capturing a table corner at the last minute.

 

Again, :o multi-melta is a Heavy weapon, he can't disembark and shoot it. Likewise, he can only shoot the multi-melta on the Immolator if he moves 6" or less. Did you mean meltaguns (they can jump out and shoot those) ? Even still...4 shots, about 2-3 hits, your 3+ cover saves prevent all but one wound (which instant-deaths one Biker). Next turn, you shoot the Dominions to death with massed S5, then assault the survivors (if you're really clever you could position a powerklaw so it contacts the Immolator as well and rip that to shreds).

10 in each squad!

 

Oh, you mean this abomination?

 

Warboss, powerklaw, attack squig, cybork, warbike

(150 points)

Biker Painboy, Biker Nob w/big choppa+bosspole, Biker Nob w/big choppa+Waagh! Banner, 3 x Biker Nobz w/powerklaws, 4 x Biker Nobz w/big choppas, all w/ cybork

(655 points)

 

Mmmm...23 T5 wounds, with 4+ cover ( 3+ when moving)/4+ armour/5+ invul/FNP, moving 24" a turn ignoring terrain (dangerous terrain is meaningless to 2 wound models), 18 assault range. Shooting sees them unload 33 x twin-linked S5 AP5 shots at effective 30" range (12" move+18" range), all of which are Assault.

On the charge, 24 x S7 attacks at WS5/I4, 12 x S9 powerklaw attacks at WS5 and 6 x S10 powerklaw attacks at WS6.

Oh, and it's Scoring, because they're Troops.

 

Seriously, what were they smoking?

 

I wrote out a list like this on paper, and you can actually fit two of these hell-spawned combinations (thus filling both HQ and both mandatory Troops slots), plus a Warbuggy with skorcha+minimal upgrades (for the lolz) and 2 x 20-man Shoota Boy squads with hidden powerklaw for follow-up. There's not an ounce of illegality or shady interpretation here, it's a completely broken (yet legal) list.

[SamaNagol]

I have nightmares about that list. I'm almost glad I didn't bother with the UK GT this year because by the time the finals roll round this is going to get spammed.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I wonder though, how hard would it be to put together. I mean, Forge World only recently released the ultra-sexy Biker Nobz and the Biker Boss, and they're resin (stupid British pound exchange rate+shipping = pint of blood, left arm and first-born child). Thats if you use 'official' models though...

 

I guess most Ork players just use existing Warbikers, then model accordingly. Perhaps they call their tag-team of Biker Bosses 'Chucks Lorries' and 'Bruising Witnesses'. Painboy Biker Nobs are converted to look like the Medics from TF2, the Waagh! Banner is the 300 movie poster done to scale and the bosspole is a Carnifex head on a stick.

 

Heh, and then all those memes go out of style in 5 years. Good times ;)

[Refyougee]

Well, looking at the Adepticon interpretation of DH Storm Shields, an 8-man squad of Termies with TH+SS can distribute all of the PK wounds to 3 models and all of the wounds are instakilling. Jumping out of a Crusader, they will get the charge and using a GM with his force weapon you can take out the Warboss off the bat; it's expensive as **** but that squad has pretty good chances of wrecking the Nobz.

 

When the second 10-man squad charges in though, well, at least you tried!

 

For the record the tourney I'm going into is going to be 1700 points; if my opponent DOES go for 2 10-man squads he won't have much else and I'd probably be best just chilling in Land Raiders until it is time to grab some objectives.

 

I know that it will not be easy but I've always been one to love a challenge.

[SamaNagol]

I think the ONLY way you can feasibly manage anything is to run 3 LRs and stay inside for the whole game moving at 12" and firing a Lascannon per turn off each then trying to get a charge in the last 2 turns after killing maybe 2 or 3 of them. Heh.

[Refyougee]

If it works, I'm not gonna lose any sleep against getting a win like that against Biker Nobz.

[SamaNagol]

At least you know if it is an objectives game, you can feasibly win by default if you stay alive!

[SamaNagol]

I've actually been racking my brain all night. Dreadnoughts....

[Aidoneus]

I've actually been racking my brain all night. Dreadnoughts....

A dreadnought would get its 2 attacks, probably kill 1 nob, and then die to a bajillion power klaw hits. Not even remotely worth it.

[ArmouredWing]

I'd have to say that with a list like this you've got to concentrate on the weakness' of the squad and to me one of the biggest weakness' would have to be the size of the bases that the bikes are on. So with that in mind I'd have to say that terrain is a key factor for 2 reasons; 1) as has been mentioned before you should try and use terrain to channel these units so that the assaults are funnelled and reduced in effectiveness and 2) there's the oportunity to cause additional wounds on the unit through dangerous terrain tests which, if the painboy does bestow FNP on the unit, cannot be saved.

So, from a personal perspective I'd be really inclined to put as much terrain between myslef and this squad and possibly even deploy on an elevated level to make it even harder for these units to get into CC range. The other thing I would use is DG on a large scale. FNP again would be of no use against the potential barrage of AP1, especially when combined with multiple flamer templates and a multiple bombardment of exorcist strikes against the unit.

[Aidoneus]

I have to say, the Callidus is sounding better and better to me. Take the farthest-away squad and throw it into terrain with A Word in You Ear. It not only can't turbo-boost first turn, it also makes 10-11 dangerous terrain checks, which means 1-2 dead nobz from that alone. Plus, when she does come in, that's an AP1 flamer template (which ignores their cover saves and FNP) right where you need it most, not to mention 5 can't-be-saved attacks well before they strike in close combat. She'll probably die to a power klaw, but after all she's done thus far, she'll have been well worth the expense!

 

Also, I should point out that if there is any terrain on the board with a second floor (building, ruin, guard tower, etc) you can be 100% safe from bikers (not counting shooting, which isn't really a problem at all). Be a good place to keep the shooty inquisitor+retinue that unlocked your Callidus. :D

[Deadshane]

Its a lot of points for the combo however. Quite an investment for screwing with BikerNobs. I just dont know.

 

Do you think the shooty Mystic assisted Inqisitor and a callidus are really worth it for your average 3 land raider Grey Knight lists?

[number6]

Its a lot of points for the combo however. Quite an investment for screwing with BikerNobs. I just dont know.

 

Do you think the shooty Mystic assisted Inqisitor and a callidus are really worth it for your average 3 land raider Grey Knight lists?

Considering that Orks are consistently taking 5 of the top 10 spots in tournaments -- winning 75% of them, too -- I think you can sacrifice one of your three Land Raiders to pay for an Inquisitor and a Callidus. The other consistent top army -- always placing 2-4 in the top 10 -- are Chaos Marines, and CSMs aren't known for winning due to an abundance of armour. It's the dual Lash lists backed up by solid traitor legion Troops and summoned daemon spam. So again, a 3rd land raider won't be as useful as an Inquisitor and a Callidus.

 

Tyranids, Mech Eldar, Chaos Daemons, and the occasional Marines -- usually Black Templars -- are the only other armies I've seen placing in the to 10 spots in the GTs for the past year. GKs are well equipped to deal with all of them, though BTs can prove to be an issue, but they're nowhere near the problem that Orks and Chaos Marines are. If you're serious about competing in tournaments, than you must build your lists to counter Ork horde lists, Ork Nob Bikerz lists, and dual-lash CSM lists. Unless you have ways to defend yourself against those three builds, you cannot compete.

 

This is one of the reasons I play in few tournaments. :devil: There is little variety and less fun to be had....

[revnow]

For a tri- Raider list I actually think that a Vindicare has a legitimate roll to play. Spy mask takes the cover save down -1, and statistically you should be able to knock out the painboy in one of the squads within a couple of turns by combining turbo penetrator and hellfire rounds. This way the GM and retinue can focus on the squad with a painboy, and the two GK squads can move on the squad without one. Additionally, shuffing off lascannon and MM hits onto a warboss becomes more dangerous with a Vindicare around.

 

The Vindicare can also pick off stray 1W nobs either in CC or that have taken an unsaved wound from a hurricane bolter or the like.

 

If you get the first turn the Vindicare can also infiltrate into advantageous spots that will allow a minimizing of initial cover and a maximizing of lane coverage.

 

I think the Callidus probably plays better in an allied guard list with a Demolisher/Battle Cannon and A Word in Your Ear.

[Refyougee]

This is pretty small list but here is what I've come up with using the Callidus:

 

1700 points

 

GK LR - 255

-EA

 

GK LR - 255

-EA

 

GK LR - 255

-EA

 

Grand Master - 155

-Storm Shield

 

GK Terminator X4 - 184 (TH + SS X2)

 

PAGK X7 - 210

-Incinerator

 

PAGK X7 - 210

-Incinerator

 

Inquisitor - 35

-Emperor's Tarot

Mystic X2 - 12

 

Callidus Assassin - 120

 

There are 9 points left over but this is what I have so far. The model count is really, really low but the only way to change that is to drop a LR for some inducted IG. I also really wish we DH could get Adamantine Mantle.

 

As for the Vindicare, I still think he is the worst Assassin. He hits on a 2+ and wounds on a 4+. Against Nobz this is terrible because either you have a ~21% of killing a Nob/Painboy (Using Turbo-Penetrator) or a ~35% chance of inflicting a wound that will get sucked into the vortex of unique multi-wound models (Using Hellfire). The only shot he gets that will matter against the Nobz is with TP, and that is *once* in the game. Even then that only gives him a 1/5 chance of killing the Nob. Is that really worth 110 points as well as the Inq? IMO, no.

[SamaNagol]

Tailoring your list is all well and good, but against Warbosses you WILL need a GM, so finding points for the Inq & Assassin means the combat effectiveness of your 3 LR bound units is going to be greatly reduced.

 

I played 3 games last night against this 22 model Ork list, and even when I managed to isolate one of the Nobz mobs against 2 of my LR bound units, I still got soundly thrashed. Even against a GM, 4 GKT and 7 PAGK I wasn't able to put out enough wounds on the Nobz to stop the 18 returning powerfist attacks from turning me into paste over 2 turns of combat. And the worst thing is even if I stay in the LR and pump out everything I can at a unit using it as a fire platform, that cover save makes them laugh off Lascannon and Multi Meltas! I am starting to feel like Ahab! I'm waking up in the morning and thinking about what to do to Ork Nobz Bikers with GK before I even pour a bowl of cereal.

 

Is there actually a way of combating this list but keeping pure GK?

 

TL Godhammers are not effective quickly enough for 2 reasons: First is cover save, second is you WILL need to start moving 12" when those bikes get near unless you want your 260pt LR to look like confetti meaning you can only fire 1 of them hitting on 5s with re-roll for just over 50% chance to hit.

 

Psycannon are high strength and Assault/Heavy 3, but you still are rolling a 4+ cover save and then a 4+ FNP even if you do wound.

 

Incinerators are pretty effective, but they still get a 4+ FNP and if you are close enough to use the Flamer template, then you better be charging. Useful for knocking off maybe a couple of wounds from the unit but it won't cause casualties.

 

S6 Power Weapons are nice. Wounding on 3s but they hit on 4s and still get a 5+ invulnerable. And you are in combat which means even if you do manage to kill about 2, you are still going to be taking a bunch of S9 Big Choppas and Power Klaws back. And dying.

 

There's 2 reasons why this list is broken. The fact they count as troops and therefor you dont need to bother with anything else. And the fact they are effectively immune to psychology with the Bosspole re-rolling Ld9, so good luck tank shocking them. That's even if you have managed take off a casualty first seeing as, at 11 models strong, the unit is fearless. I wont even take into consideration beating them on combat resolution, because it won't happen.