Double BikerNob lists...can our tourney lists survive 'em?

[Deadshane]

If you played 3 games...how resiliant were your land raiders against the powerklaws?

 

Are 3 Landraiders able to go the distance?

 

I'm thinking if I have to go up against this list in tournement...I'm going to simply target the lesser "killable" units in the army and try to salvage a Tie....hopefully by denying objectives. Land Raider surviveability would be key in this.

 

GM could assault out of a LR alone if you're able to hit the Warboss in one unit, do what you can to kill the second warboss. These guys are the biggest threats to the LR's. Once you're able to kill them off, keep the LR's moving to protect them against the str9 attacks of the Nobs. Then go hunt gretchin, ork boyz, or whatever else he's got on the field in order to take objectives or whatever (maybe even get a kill point or two).

 

Then, after you've aced his lesser units, hopefully you've killed off the Warbosses, and simply roll around at fast speed to keep whatever troops you have left alive and inside the tanks....to contest whatever objectives you have on the board...forcing a tie.

 

..........................................................

 

This brings another Idea...I dunno where our opponents are putting their Bosspoles, but if you're lucky enough to have one put thiers on the warbosses, you can tank shock the unit off of the board easier.

 

In any event, the Warbosses should probably be a primary target. They are his ONLY access to str 10 and each one has 6 attacks on the charge. They represent the best chance for popping the LR's.

 

Killing them should even be possible without risking your GM if you think about it....or rather have the GM charge the fresh one. During the bikers' approach, you'll of course be blasting away with lascannon fire. The first two lascannon hits that get thru the cover save will of course go onto the Warboss...since they dont insta-death him due to his toughness. Hopefully he's only got 1 wound on him by the time he gets within striking range of the Tanks.

 

Thats the GM to tackle the Fresh Warboss, and a suicidal squad of Knights or Terminators to take out the wounded one easily.

 

Hopefully this leaves two Nob biker units on the board (hopefully only around 8 strong or so) and hopefully he only had a bosspole on his warboss. This also requires that you're able to GET to the warboss on a charge but whatever, we have to take what we can get here and maybe this is a plan. Perhaps this plan might give us a bit more of a chance of pulling out the tie. (not confident enough yet to assume a win, easier to play for a tie anyway)

[SamaNagol]

The Land Raiders performed AMAZINGLY. in 3 games total he only managed to actually destroy 2 of them, and I was running 3. They are so durable, it's not even funny.

 

The thing is, this Nobz Biker list does not have any other units you can gank for easy KP. At it's perfect form it is literally just 2 Warbosses and 10 Nobz. Bosspole on a random Nob with Power Claw. Waagh Banner on another one. That's 12 ablative wounds before you get to them. It's actually horrific.

 

Even if you get the charge the GM only has a 75% chance of killing the Warboss, and if you don't manage to do it then you are in a world of hurt.

[SamaNagol]

Just so you can be clear what the list is that you will see in tournaments:

 

Warboss: Warbike, Power Claw, Cybork Body, Eavy Armour

10 Nobz: Warbikes, Painboy&Grot Orderly, 4x Power Claw, 5x Big Choppa, Cybork Bodies, Waagh Banner, Bosspole

 

Warboss: Warbike, Power Claw, Cybork Body, Eavy Armour

10 Nobz: Warbikes, Painboy&Grot Orderly, 4x Power Claw, 5x Big Choppa, Cybork Bodies, Waagh Banner, Bosspole

 

1500pts on the nose.

[Deadshane]

Thats actually REALLY simplified.

 

In 1750 tournements, it was typically 10 bikers total, not 11. Points were too hard to come by, because you need SOMETHING other than the bikers. In Baltimore anyway, this was the case.

 

It was Warboss with claw and other equiptment, 8 Nobs all seperatly armed to take advantage of wound allocation, painboy, between 3-5 powerclaws on Nobs alone. (more powerklaws gives the edge over OTHER Nobbiker lists, so expect to see MORE rather than just 3)

 

x2

 

Remainder of the successful lists would have some other unit, like a 20 man unit of boyz with shootaz, big shootaz and another Nob with a Klaw.

 

Sometimes multiple units of gretchin, sometimes something else.

 

The purpose of these units is to remain behind and simply take up objectives....or not die in kill point missions.

[Deadshane]

The Land Raiders performed AMAZINGLY. in 3 games total he only managed to actually destroy 2 of them, and I was running 3. They are so durable, it's not even funny.

 

The thing is, this Nobz Biker list does not have any other units you can gank for easy KP. At it's perfect form it is literally just 2 Warbosses and 10 Nobz. Bosspole on a random Nob with Power Claw. Waagh Banner on another one. That's 12 ablative wounds before you get to them. It's actually horrific.

 

Even if you get the charge the GM only has a 75% chance of killing the Warboss, and if you don't manage to do it then you are in a world of hurt.

 

 

Good to hear, that gives us at least a CHANCE in objective missions.

 

(place one of your objectives EXACTLY 12" away from another one. One PAGK marine can board a Landraider and take both. If you put a LandRaider diagonal between two objectives that are place 12" apart, the LR is less than 3" from both. ONE Grey Knight takes two objectives!)

[Grand Master Iapetus]

I think we’ve been missing something…I’ve been puzzling over this question ever since it was posted and in doing some reading today there is an answer that certainly works for DH/WH and fits with our fluff.

 

The last 2 paragraphs on page 26 of the 5e rulebook have a special rule modifying the way units of multi wound models are affected by the ID rule. Basically groups of models that have multiple wounds that are wounded by weapons causing ID are handled differently in terms of wound allocation – you cannot stack ID wounds, you must remove one model per wound.

 

• FNP cannot be used against AP 1/2 weapons

• With the Nobs basic toughness of 4, the bike’s +1 T does not help when adjudicating Instant Death.

• They will get a cover save (3+ or 4+).

• But: EVERY unsaved wound from an ID weapon removes a model.

 

DH: load up on GodHammer pattern Land Raiders (3 / 5 / 7 depending on the points value of the game) and ISTs with Meltas.

 

WH: Meltas in all squads and 3 exorcists.

 

Let’s assume you ran a DH 7 LR “ard boyz” list - here is how the mathhammer breaks down:

 

• 14 shots

• Hitting ~90% with TL = 12-13 hits

• Wounding on 2’s (~80%) = 10-11 wounds

• Without Turbo Boost they will save on a 4+. This inflicts 5-6 wounds.

• With Turbo Boost they save on a 3+, giving almost 4 wounds.

• If you eliminate 3 units – you force a morale check: at LD 7. This is about a 50% chance of running. Bosspole can get a re-roll, but they take another wound.

 

And this is just the math-hammer for the lascannons, didn’t even count the bolters, or the ISTs….or the callidus :P

[SamaNagol]

The more points you stack, the less effective the Nob Biker list becomes because you will be facing nastier stuff that can take them out. However at 1500pts, most people will be taking 3 Troops and HQ and a couple of HS or Elites. It is so much nastier than anything else that at 1500pts it becomes a real problem.

 

I would have no fear of facing them in 2500pts because I could afford to take 5 LRs and 10 GKTs to go with the GM which would prune off wounds like nobody's business.

 

It is at the 1500pt tournament size that this list is a serious issue.

[skarn]

Just thought I'd quote the reply I wrote in the GK definitive discussion topic in the army list sub forum. :P

 

With the list I posted above, the basic plan I used was Stern and the 8 man PAGK in one LR and the termis in the other. The 10 man PAGK and the LR concenrate fire on one of the biker units trying to whittle it down a little. The LR then charge forward forming an inverted"V" shape around the full strength biker squad (the LR basically shield the combat as much as possible from the other unit of nobz). 3 incinerators and 18 stormbolter shots soften them up a bit, and 25 str 6 hits (13 of which are from power weapons) will kill some more off. Then its up to the TH termis to instant kill a couple more with 6 str 8 attacks. The orks remaining have to divide their attacks between the PAGK, Stern and the termis, and if they concentrate on 1, the other two will probably finish them off next turn.

 

Hopefully the firepower from the LR and the 10 man squad whittles a couple more nobz down and then the whole thing begins again. In one game the second unit ignored the LR and charged the 10 man unit slaughtering them, but it gave me more time to regroup after taking the first unit out.

 

I'm sure there are players who are way better at this than I am and can come up with a superior strategy or army list, or even ork players who could smash my GK, but this has worked twice for me (in one game I lost Stern and 3 termis and that was it!).

[SamaNagol]

They need to give us an FAQ so we can take a Redeemer legally. I can't use Imperial Armour lists in tournaments.

[templargdt]

I\Let’s assume you ran a DH 7 LR “ard boyz” list - here is how the mathhammer breaks down:

 

• 14 shots

• Hitting ~90% with TL = 12-13 hits

• Wounding on 2’s (~80%) = 10-11 wounds

• Without Turbo Boost they will save on a 4+. This inflicts 5-6 wounds.

• With Turbo Boost they save on a 3+, giving almost 4 wounds.

• If you eliminate 3 units – you force a morale check: at LD 7. This is about a 50% chance of running. Bosspole can get a re-roll, but they take another wound.

 

And this is just the math-hammer for the lascannons, didn’t even count the bolters, or the ISTs….or the callidus :D

 

Um... I know I'm new, but how do you get 7 Land Raiders in a List?

[Grand Master Iapetus]

HQ

• =][= Lord - LR Transport
  
• GK BC or GK GM to unlock the heavy support category
  

 

Elite

• 3x =][= - LR Transport
  

 

HS

• 3x LR or LRC
  

 

Add cheese and bake :)

[templargdt]

HQ

• =][= Lord - LR Transport
  
• GK BC or GK GM to unlock the heavy support category
  

 

Elite

• 3x =][= - LR Transport
  

 

HS

• 3x LR or LRC
  

 

Add cheese and bake :)

 

Wow, that's... special. Even at 2500 points that looks seriously insane. I mean, that's 1750 points of Land Raider right there, plus 105 of unarmed inquisitors. You have 645 points left for troops in a 2500 point game. What does the rest of a list packing that look like?

[ripath]

Just kind of brainstorming

DCA

INQ plasma cannons

terrain

take enough nilla stormtroopers to overwhelm

daemonhosts?

take enough gk to overwhelm

 

I wrote out a list like this on paper, and you can actually fit two of these hell-spawned combinations (thus filling both HQ and both mandatory Troops slots), plus a Warbuggy with skorcha+minimal upgrades (for the lolz) and 2 x 20-man Shoota Boy squads with hidden powerklaw for follow-up. There's not an ounce of illegality or shady interpretation here, it's a completely broken (yet legal) list.

You know I used to cry when I saw my opponent setting up an armored column list, now I'll hide in the corner for games against this.