Chaos Spawn

[travh20]

I was just playing a game witha couple spawn and after taking somewounds, realized, they have absolutly no save. :cuss? Am I missing something? even a 6+ save or something would be better then nothing! Do they really have no save or am I just not seeing it?

[Rain]

They are trash, don't use them. Here repeat after me:

 

I will not give my opponent free kill points

 

I will not clump my units against russ happy guard

 

I will not take dreadnoughts or spawn

 

Khorne will have to make due with just the opponent's blood

 

Rain is the best and all praise be unto him

[eyescrossed]

Spawn are alright... Well, back when we used victory points...

[Redbaron997]

Nope, no save.

 

Spawn are a absoulte waste of points and free KP for the enemy. I can not think of any situation where they would be a good unit.

[minigun762]

I can not think of any situation where they would be a good unit.

 

Being VERY generous, the best I have come up with is in a City Fight or very terrain heavy map, their lack of a save would be compensated by gaining a Cover save easily and their movement type would be unaffected by moving through cover.

 

Of course I'm really stretching for a reason.

 

The sad fact is, 1 Spawn costs the same as 3 Lesser Daemons who have the save number wounds, more attacks normally, a 5++ save and most importantly they're scoring. The Spawn might be a tiny bit faster and has S5 T5.

[blood_raven_240]

I really didn't realise that Spawn were that bad...

 

So, they're like... Battlefield Edition Fluffpuppies? Without the fluff, cause, I mean, that'd be like... that'd be a 6+ or something, right? So... the Fluffless Battlefield Edition Fluffpuppies with No Fluff.

 

I always imagined they'd have like... a 4+ or maybe even a 3+. But... I mean, NO cover save?

 

Aw, come on!

[travh20]

all they are really good for is bullet magnets. I suppose if you could move through cover the whole way they would be OK. But even if you made it into combat they would still have no save, so a bolt pistol across the back of the hea could take em out, thats dumb.

[blood_raven_240]

Come on, there are tons of cheaper "Bullet Magnets" than Chaos Spawn.

[Mal]

Yes but you can turn your opponents into spawns. Even their characters....

 

Then add into that if thy were with a unit, that unit is not in combat with the spawn... It can be useful for interupting your opponents battle plans.

[blood_raven_240]

Yes but you can turn your opponents into spawns. Even their characters....

 

Then add into that if thy were with a unit, that unit is not in combat with the spawn... It can be useful for interupting your opponents battle plans.

 

Whoa, can they? So... say, Lyslander... into SPAWN? PERMANENTLY? :huh:

[Redbaron997]

Yes but you can turn your opponents into spawns. Even their characters....

 

Then add into that if thy were with a unit, that unit is not in combat with the spawn... It can be useful for interupting your opponents battle plans.

 

That is the one good use of them if you ask me. If you have a TS army and you give your Aspiring Sorcerers Gift of Chaos. When CC hits you have a chance of not only killing an enemy (even a character) but adding a spawn into CC with you.

[Mal]

Its also why my chaos lists never start with spawns... but can potentially finish with them....

[the jeske]

When CC hits you have a chance of not only killing an enemy (even a character) but adding a spawn into CC with you.

and if it dies give even more kill pts to your opponent.

[Mal]

Yes its a risk, but you pop it on a character, and YOU get a KP plus a beastie to tie your enemys command squad up for a turn, in the right circumstances, this can easily be worth a KP.

 

Its all a matter or stragety and tactics, using the right tool for the job.

[Lord Humongous]

At least 2/3 of games should ignore kill points in favor of objectives. In those games, "Gift of Chaos" kills an enemy and creates a unit that is at least a useful distraction, may provide some cover, and could even contest an objective. The 40 point value isn't an issue in those cases, and isn't even so outlandish in games with victory points. But it IS absurd when it comes to buying them in your army list.

 

IMO, spawn you buy as part of your list should get "feal no pain", being stable spawn with proven viability. That would properly represent the end stages of a mutating CSM or chaos worshiper, as opposed to the likely short lived result of an enemy blasted with the "Gift of Chaos" power. Both would be "worth" 40 points; the former because its fairly tough, the later because... well, you didn't really pay for it anyhow.

[the jeske]

Its all a matter or stragety and tactics, using the right tool for the job.

:ermm: so you kill a guy and you get a KP , they kill the spawn and they get a kill point . hmm so in then end its 0 kill points earned and 0 kill points saved [for example its ok to lose a pm , if it saves two or more KP worth units]. doesnt strike me as a good tool for a job .

spawns always suck , they are up there with dreads and possessed as the "never ever take" options.

[Mal]

Its all a matter or stragety and tactics, using the right tool for the job.

:tu: so you kill a guy and you get a KP , they kill the spawn and they get a kill point . hmm so in then end its 0 kill points earned and 0 kill points saved [for example its ok to lose a pm , if it saves two or more KP worth units]. doesnt strike me as a good tool for a job .

spawns always suck , they are up there with dreads and possessed as the "never ever take" options.

 

But you see thats the joy of it, were not taking them in the army, we are turning their characters into them.

 

And if you can tie up that uber command squad for a turn so you can kill other stuff without them getting into combat, are you saying thats a bad thing?

 

Yes spawns are not great, but they do have their purposes, just don't expect them to survive more than a turn....

 

Eitherway IMHO removing a multi-wound tough, durbale character and replacing it with a spawn under your control is ALWAYS a good thing.

[Zeller]

Spawns are great when you remember they were your opponents carnifex or captain the previous turn.

[the jeske]

And if you can tie up that uber command squad for a turn so you can kill other stuff without them getting into combat, are you saying thats a bad thing?

 

uber squads wipe the spawn on your hth phase , so its not a speed bump for anything.

 

Eitherway IMHO removing a multi-wound tough, durbale character and replacing it with a spawn under your control is ALWAYS a good thing.

50% of time due to runes or psychic hoods , so you have to run 2 DPs or sorc for it to work and then it can just plain fail to change something in to a spawn [and this considering the range of the spell means either double taping or/and charge for the caster ].

 

But you see thats the joy of it

I dont understand this part , what do you mean by joy ? spawns are a bad choice . inferior to lash or warp time or rot for nurgle dps . its a weak meta choice [considering it randomnes its not a meta choice at all]. can you explain , because am nto seeing the joy part in having spawns [created by spells or not]?

[flintlocklaser]

I dont understand this part , what do you mean by joy ? spawns are a bad choice . inferior to lash or warp time or rot for nurgle dps . its a weak meta choice [considering it randomnes its not a meta choice at all]. can you explain , because am nto seeing the joy part in having spawns [created by spells or not]?

 

He means it's fun. Not effective, or minmaxed, just fun. "Fun" is not a concept amenable to deep analysis or metagaming concerns, unless one of your metagame goals is "fun," in which case people have been known to make suboptimal army choices because they will be fun, whether or not they are maximally effective. Turning your opponent's favorite character into a spawn is fun for many people, often more fun than simply hitting him with a meltagun or force weapon. Hope that helps!

[Mal]

jeske, you have the opinion that spawns have absolutly no use in game at all... and your welcome to your opinion... but would you be so kind to to not play down to the rest of us who like a little spawny goodness... not every 40k player you meet will be 100% geared to power gaming, or even give two hoots about meta gaming...

 

There is one key word there.... GAME.

 

It is after all just a game... and games are played to have fun... so if I choose to try to turn my opponents characters into spawns im going to do just that.

 

p.s. as a side note... pyschic hoods have a limited range nowdays, just pick your target carefully....

[the jeske]

not every 40k player you meet will be 100% geared to power gaming, or even give two hoots about meta gaming...

ok , so write it down then . spawns are a bad choice that no gamer would pick , but I play them because I dont care , if I win or lose [considerint the mind set second one done offten]. + the first post was asking , if there is something hiden in spawns use .I understand that as an advice for some nice tactics , combo etc . You telling that you still use them and that they may be "ok" gives the false illusion that they are in somehow good options, what they aint .

 

 

It is after all just a game... and games are played to have fun... so if I choose to try to turn my opponents characters into spawns im going to do just that.

game means someone wins and someone loses ? I mean box is a game , football is a game . And just like there are good players worth puting money one there are also bad ones . Same with w40k some options are good and some are worse [while some are so bad that there are not other option as to ingore them].

 

as a side note... pyschic hoods have a limited range nowdays, just pick your target carefully....

and thats why imperials use GKGM who have psychic hoods with unlimited range .

 

Turning your opponent's favorite character into a spawn is fun for many people, often more fun than simply hitting him with a meltagun or force weapon.

ah .. but doesnt i have a slim chance of happening specially against a good player + most armies [with maybe the exeption of necrons at 1500-1800] dont cave in when a single character dies . also whats a favorite character ?

[flintlocklaser]

Turning your opponent's favorite character into a spawn is fun for many people, often more fun than simply hitting him with a meltagun or force weapon.

ah .. but doesnt i have a slim chance of happening specially against a good player + most armies [with maybe the exeption of necrons at 1500-1800] dont cave in when a single character dies . also whats a favorite character ?

 

Again, the point isn't that the army collapses when the character dies (and if that's true, then who cares how/if you kill him). It's fun because it's a neater concept, as a narrative, for the guy to get turned into a pile of squiggly tentacles, even if it's harder to pull off than just killing the guy. And you asking 'whats a favorite character' is just precious.

[Mal]

Jeske, enough already.

 

No more trying to twist my words.

 

At no point have I said they are a unit that is so bad nobody would take them, nor have I implied in anyway such a statement.

 

They may not be uber-powered but does EVERYTHING have to be to make it into your armies, if it does then you can be sure most poeple would never play you twice.

 

Spawns add a nice comic element to the game.

 

Now to the op asking for something hidden the spawns use, I answered that a number of posts back with the gift of chaos power, which when it works is really awesome, yes there is a chance it wont work, that doesn't make it useless. Everything in the game has a chance of failing. The odd can be improved or worsened in certain circumstances.

 

And as I said earlier, there is always the right tool for the job... i.e. if you standing near an enemy psycker with hood, then using ANY power may not be wise, but if hes out of range, or not in your opponents list, it may be worth a try.

 

Now as to armies caving when a character dies, thats not the point of the spell, its not a game winner... but it CAN help.

 

Look at it this way, enemy unit in range to charge next turn, you ahve a unit with a sorceror with gifts of chaos and a bolt pistol... do you:

 

A; Shoot with the unit and then shoot the bolt pistol?

 

or

 

b; Shoot with the unit and attempt to turn the character into a spawn?

 

If you do A, then you can be pretty certain that your getting charged... however if you do B, you may get charged, or you could kill the character and have a chance of doing a little more damage with the spawn leaving your squad with much better odds of killing that unit off next turn.

[Redbaron997]

(Calm down friends)

 

Ok so there are two places you will see a spawn. Bought in your army list, and originated from Gift of Chaos.

 

Almost everyone can agree that Buying them is a complete waste of points and time.

 

Now Gift of Chaos is much better, Ok KP points wise they are about neutral. For instance you take out a fex, or HQ or something. You gain a KP, and then most likely lose it as it dies. So its even steven and they are now down a 100-200ish point model. Definite win in all ways.

 

Now the other way is against sometihng that doesnt give you a KP, for instance lets go with the common Powerfist Sarg. You kill him, get the spawn, and it probably dies. Your opponent is now a KP up, but you have "Cut the teeth out" of a enemy unit. A big win in non KP missions, and give or take on KP units, depending on how bad you need that sarg gone.

 

So is Gift of Chaos nessecarly a power gamer usage? now, but its that 1/4,5th,6th chance to destroy a Carnifex, or Marine Captain, or whatever in one hit (and you get a lil friend in return)