Death Guard Tactica

[incinerator950]

Compatibly I'm still working around that, regardless are Chosen Scoring units as well?

 

I would love to swap out the Defilers, but I already have 1 Defiler, and rather than do counts ass BS or regardless, I like using what I already got.

 

I also found a Night Lord hero in a box, it's missing the helmet wings but regardless it's assembled and unpainted :lol:.

 

Regardless I'll try and figure it out, I'm not too up on Chosen, but 4 specials sounds decent, I just want to max out my troops of Plague Marines.

 

Anyone want to help brainstorm their army fluffs? I feel like Diy is either too dry or too hostile for it, and these dedicated Chaos boards are more inclined to the modeling/gaming side instead.

 

Anyone?

[Lord Rao]

Chosen are Elites, so No, they aren't scoring units.

 

They also aren't PMs, as you already insinuated, so they're not for the purists among us.

 

Other than that, their uses are evident, as described by nurglephill. They do seriously kick ass, and are the only non-PM infantry unit I'd ever contemplate using in an all-PM force, simply because they are sooooo good and tactically flexible.

 

 

LR

[Kjarl Bluetooth]

I'm not too up on Chosen, but 4 specials sounds decent

 

Chosen can actually take 5 special weapons - there are 2 separate options allowing 1 marine to take a weapon and then 4 more.

 

I like to use a 5 man unit for Planetstrike - deep strike in and then blast away with meltas!

[Almighty1]

The only time I used chosen i had a unit of 5 with 5 flamers and a Chaos Icon, they infiltrated, summoned some daemons and put alight to a lot of infantry, woo fire yay!

 

 

 

And fire is cool, and flamey, and nice, and 5 flame templates placed AT THE SAME TIME thanks to 5th edition is bound to kill something, and they were only 125pts with an icon, 115 for 5 people with 5 flamers. Good times...

 

 

Just tried a change for my 1500 point army, after one game where my opponent told me how intimidating it was watching 3 x 7 plague ,arines moving towards him, i plumped for 3 units of 10 supported by 2 winged daemon princes and 3 obbliterators and 9 lesser daemons.

[incinerator950]

You can infiltrate the transport vehicle of said squad correct?

[studderingdave]

yeah, i think thats how it works in 5th.

[incinerator950]

Alright, I'll contemplate putting in 3 Plague squads and a squad of chosen, 7 chosen sound good?

 

Someone help me, I have no experience with those units.

[aeroplane]

A chosen squad should be a flexible specialist - you will probably want to adjust the contents of the squad depending on your opponent.

 

Is there a tank or two that need to be destroyed? Have a bunch of melta. Playing against a horde? Flamers! MEQ? Plasma. You get the idea...

[Almighty1]

If chosen take a transport vehicle then the vehicle itself can't infiltrate, the squad can either infiltrate and leave the transport to be deployed normally, deploy normally in the transport or deploy normally out of it, but the transport does not have the infiltrate rule so cant infiltrate. Unfortunately.

 

Logically though, think about trying to infiltrate a tank. Really?

 

Chosen are still incredibly useful without a transport though, you just have to specialise their weapons to a certain role, or give them a mix of weapons enabling them to fulfill many roles less efectively, e.g. 2 meltas, 2 flamers enables them to deal with tanks or mass infantry with relative ease, whereas 5 meltas would be far more specialised.

[incinerator950]

You'd be surprised how you can hide a vehicle in terrain when the enemy doesn't have electrical and thermal scanning.

 

I thought Possessed with fearless can infiltrate their transport, why not chosen?

 

So Chosen can take 5 weapons and I wasn't thinking that was a writer error? Sweet.

 

Yeah, 3 squads of Plague Marines, and I can take 1 squad without a champ, with 2 plasma rifles, and 2 melta squads with 2 meltas each with champ/fist. The chosen can be deployed with 7 units, take a cheap champ, and get a bunch of goodies and I'm still under 1500 pts, and my HQ still flies.

 

What would be the best settup for Chosen if I intend to give them a champ to use to bring in a Greater Demon? I'll already have 4 meltas and 2 plasmas, with 2 Defilers for support.

[SCOOBYSHAG]

If you are wanting to use the Chosen as a launching pad for a Greater Daemon I would leave the champ naked. How about something like this:

 

7 Chosen

MoN (if you want to keep things consistent)

Champ (naked)

5 Melta/5 Flamer (whatever you want them to do)

 

Of course another idea that might better supplement your specialist PM's and Defilers would be to run Havocs instead of Chosen.

 

7 Havocs

MoN

Champ

4 Missile Launchers

 

The Havocs are 14 more points than the Melta Chosen and 39 more points than the Flamer Chosen. But Missile Launchers are more versatile than Meltas and Flamers so you are paying for that versatility.

 

Personally I would roll with either the 5 Flamer Chosen squad (to save points) or the 4 Missile Launcher Havoc squad (for maximum versatility).

[incinerator950]

Prolly going with Chosen, with 5 Flamers, because I want to leave the heavy slot open for something else later when I upgrade past 1500 points.

 

Funny, when I calculated the Chosen I didn't put Icon of Nurgle, personally I think it's a waste of points and those points can be used for more gear and stuff.

[vomitus]

I've had fun with vindicators lately, but never use Daemonic Possession. My opponents always manage to wreck or annihilate them anyway, if they try hard.

So with the love of Vindicators and double prince set up, what do you think of this list. For a tournament. Lots of MEQ, Eldar and a nice mix of other armies as well. Is it too cheesy?

 

2x Daemon Princes, MoN, Wings, Warptime

4x7 Plague Marines, incl champ/fist, 2x meltaguns, rhino.

3x Vindicators

Total: 1749 points

 

Two alternatives (dozer blades to fill up on spare points, but can be very important):

 

2x Daemon Prince, MoN, Wings, Warptime

1x10 Plague Marines, incl champ/fist, 2x meltaguns (in Land Raider)

1x10 Plague Marines, incl champ/fist, 2x meltaguns, rhino, dozer blade

1x9 Plague Marines, incl champ/fist, 2x meltaguns, rhino

2x Vindicators

1x Land Raider, dozer blade

Total: 1747 points

 

2x Daemon Prince, MoN, Wings, Warptime

1x9 Plague Marines, incl champ/fist, 2x meltaguns (in Land Raider)

1x9 Plague Marines, incl champ/fist, 2x meltaguns (in Land Raider)

1x8 Plague Marines, incl champ/fist, 2x meltaguns, rhino, dozer blade

1x Vindicator

2x Land Raiders, dozer blade

Total: 1743 points

 

Have a nice day!

-Vomitus

[Evil Homer]

I've had fun with vindicators lately, but never use Daemonic Possession. My opponents always manage to wreck or annihilate them anyway, if they try hard.

So with the love of Vindicators and double prince set up, what do you think of this list. For a tournament. Lots of MEQ, Eldar and a nice mix of other armies as well. Is it too cheesy?

 

2x Daemon Princes, MoN, Wings, Warptime

4x7 Plague Marines, incl champ/fist, 2x meltaguns, rhino.

3x Vindicators

Total: 1749 points

 

-Vomitus

That's my list except for the weapons load out I run

2 2x Melta

1 2x Flamer

1 2x Plasma

 

Otherwise that is my list exactly

[incinerator950]

I feel like posting now to keep the thread going.

 

I want some Anti-Infantry but I'm taking Chosen instead of normal Plague Marines because of points cost, say I take a bare Champ for a GD and 5 Flamers on a 7 man hit team, what else should I take? I forgot Scouting was different then Infiltrating, so I was oblivious to the transport thing, and I want to know if not taking a transport is the smart thing for them, and the Icon of Nurgle is not worth it for a suicide/anti-infantry slugger, what else could I take with all those extra points?

 

herp derp :/

[Mutt-Man!]

Daemonbombing by rhino.

 

1. Rhino's side armor flush with deployment line.

2. When you get to move, turn the rhino to aim straight for your target, you gain some distance which will be about 1" before you start moving. (Perfectly legal, people start this way to hide their unit when the rhino is destroyed before moving it if the opponent gets first turn)

3. After the 12" move, spin the rhino once more where the front left or front right corner of the tank is facing your target.

4. Deploy your marines in a line around the tank, where the 2" deployment distance for the icon model is the closest you can make to the enemy. Most of your marines will hide behind the tank for 4+ cover, it will not work unless you have 9+ marines in the unit.

5. Use the run rule, and push the line 1-6 inches closer to the enemy while remaining 50% behind the tank as much as possible. You could try and use models from the side armor side of the tank to make up the line if you roll high dice while trying to figure out where the majority of firepower will come from. (This takes practice)

6. You, by all means, efforts and if done well/perfectly, will have daemons come in on turn 2 exactly 6.9" (or 6 inches and 15/16ths) away from the icon. Remember, icon distance for daemons is just like deploying out of a rhino, its like coherency distance. Look to the respective rule pages for picture references.

 

Changes in situations:

If the enemy too far away, you run the daemons instead of charging them. You will know, because the daemons come in at the start of turn 2. Your marines will also be close to a second turn charge if your careful, and most likely you will get the second turn charge with them. If you use a lot of daemons you can make multiple rings putting you more inches closer when they come in. You will also have a chance to fire meltaguns from your marines if your not charged in the first game turn, allowing you to hit transports and take them out. You will also not need smoke launchers, and hence has been a tactic since 3rd edition for smoke-less rhinos.

 

Having this sort of daemonbomb, you can add obliterators, terminators(terminator HQ's including abbadon that has eternal warrior), and of course a means to get the greater daemon if you have one - closer. That means the icon must be on the champion in order to make use of it, since there is no ruling that all reserve rolls are made in the order you want, you can roll for all lesser daemons before the greater daemon so you dont remove your icon-champion before using the icon for the daemons.

 

This should be a new avenue to try out for those who have lots of plague daemons. At least a fun way to experiment.

 

The numbers for second turn assault are below.

+1" pivot, +12" move, +1/4"(ish) partial pivot, 2"&15/16" disembark, 1"-6" run.

Second turn is 6"&15/16" icon-daemon deployment, +1" for every ring(+1" minimum, +3" max) and 6" charge.

Grand total of 31"&1/8" to 38"&1/8", add the deploymant distance to that and your nearly at the point of charging units at the rear, while tanks are 4" and longer will be charged by the second turn by daemons.

 

You don't need bikes to daemonbomb. Sounds hilarious but its true. If I'm off a little, then that means little difference, the numbers are still there. The run rule is nasty with daemonbomb.

[Corpse.]

Not so close as you thought, you forget you measure from the door and not the corner of the rhino so -1" from that total.

[incinerator950]

interesting.

[Giga]

Does any of you guys get big use out of summoned daemons? The greater daemon seems rather nice to me, personally. Rush the enemy with a squad of plague marines or regular CSM, and by the time you get close enough the daemon should become available (turn 2 or 3, most of the time) and possibly assault in the same turn it arrives. Is this the way it often happens in-game, or is it just cool on paper?

 

Also, anyone found a use for lesser daemons? They seem awfully weak to me.

 

(noob nurglite here)

[incinerator950]

I've seen a GD take out 2 Lash princes in the same game, within 2 turns, so yes.

 

Also, it's nice to see more Angry marines

[studderingdave]

i ran the greater demon for a while, but his 100 points is distorted by the expensive champ you need to sac to bring him in. making particular units have naked champs dilutes his flexibility and also lessens the strength of those units.

 

i do you use the lesser demons more in larger games.

[incinerator950]

I've noticed certain units can get away with having a bare champ for GDs, although I'm not wasting 15 pts for my Plasma squad to have one.

[Giga]

Also, it's nice to see more Angry marines

Wish I was a good enough painter to actually paint my loyalists as angry marines. B)

i ran the greater demon for a while, but his 100 points is distorted by the expensive champ you need to sac to bring him in. making particular units have naked champs dilutes his flexibility and also lessens the strength of those units.

Well, the way I see it, you pay those points for the champ to insure that your greater daemon will not be shot at before its quite close to the enemy. And still, even with a beefed up champ (say, with power fist), you're only paying a total of ~150 pts or so for a greater daemon that can really hamper your opponent's style on the very turn it arrives + the sheer threat of the daemon might cause your opponent to take a huge chunk of his firepower away from the rest of your army in an attempt to prevent that champ from reaching his important units.

 

(it also gives me a good excuse to buy a great unclean one)

[incinerator950]

You don't even need to buff out the champ for survivability.

[Giga]

You don't even need to buff out the champ for survivability.

The way I see it, I might not always have the preferred champion where you want it. In other words, the designated "sacrifice" champion might be left stranded in an immobilized rhino, or pinned down, or just blocked by terrain/enemy units. Hence, when using greater daemons one should be ready to sacrifice even that expensive power fist champion, if that would have a potentially devastating effect on the enemy.