Death Guard Tactica

[vomitus]

What do you feel about 5 terminators, all with combi-meltas, one of them a champ with chainfist? Thats 200 points. You can deep strike them near high AV vehicles, small low Sv units or throw them out of a land raider and shoot and assault. (Although I have become a nurgle lover the last 18 months, giving a squad of terminators icon of slaanesh is tempting. I'm sorry :P)

-V

[Almighty1]

Just give them Combi-Weapons, there are no seperate entries and nowhere does it say you have to tell your opponent what they are until you use them, and it would be useful to have an icon ready to lock your terminators onto, like an infilttrating squad of chosen with an icon.

[Sanctjud]

So...Scouts' Honor in that you don't just pick the combi-weapon when you see the enemy army.

I don't know, I play in a open list environment.

We are transparent with everything we have, it takes the "OH :rolleyes: I DIDN'T KNOW THAT" out of the game but reduces that sort of cheating. Like the magical transporting squads in unmarked rhinos.

 

My 7 Cents.

[Rumour Control]

Ive just bought the vindicator apoc box and will be hopefully using them in a tourney soon. Any do's and dont's for running 3 vindicators bar the usual tactics? I mean using them for area denial, spearhead and so on.

[studderingdave]

i ran triple vindi for a a while and got the best results by running all three of them close to each other, just rushing up the table and knocking things out. i think spreading them out leaves them open for being swarmed more and singled out.

[SCOOBYSHAG]

i ran triple vindi for a a while and got the best results by running all three of them close to each other, just rushing up the table and knocking things out. i think spreading them out leaves them open for being swarmed more and singled out.

 

 

Did you ever run into issues with blast templates scattering from one Vindy to another?

[Rumour Control]

Thanks shudderingdave. I got one built last nite, try get the other two done tonight. Hopefully test them out on tuesday. I've been using two landraiders for around six months now with great results, time to try a different approach now. Some of my usual opponents have been tooling there lists differently when they play me. While my list remains the same for months and I won't change it to play certain opponents.

 

Scoobyshag, I'm sure the whole in the centre of the template has to land fully on the hull to be at full strength, otherwise if it scatters so the hole isn't over any part of the hull it's reduced to half strength. I think.

[Evil Homer]

i ran triple vindi for a a while and got the best results by running all three of them close to each other, just rushing up the table and knocking things out. i think spreading them out leaves them open for being swarmed more and singled out.

 

 

Did you ever run into issues with blast templates scattering from one Vindy to another?

I run triple vindi in my standard DG list. I've only scattered back once and that was shooting at orks at point blank range, mean my vinidi's survived the assault and were pushed to board edge and I didn't have any other choice.

 

I agree with the comment about running them together. They tend to work better when you are screening them with terrain and rhino's as well.

 

 

 

-EH

[RobPhoboS]

What a fantastic thread !

 

I'm just starting to gear up, been purchasing a few bits n pieces for a 1200-1500 point nurgle\dg army.

First time player (but used to play it when I was young...some 15 years ago), only friendly matches between necrons\space marines\csm.

 

The only mechanized parts I may use are a couple of meltagun rhino's, otherwise primarily foot soldiers.

Will thoroughly read through this topic !!!

 

:)

[Devaroze]

So I was playing in a tournament being put on by my local RTS and I was using the standard deamon prince with warptime. When I went to use my power I was told that I have to either not re-roll or I have to re-roll ALL my dice, not just the misses and failed wounds. I looked up the reading and this seems to be the case. Has this come up with any other people who run DP with warptime?

[DemetriiTZ]

The wording is "may", and re-rolls are always voluntary actions. The wording does not say "must" anywhere in the paragraph. If someone was bothering you about this, they were trying to be a silly little rules lawyer. Get a judge. If the judge rules in their favor, I'd personally never bother playing another tournament there.

[Devaroze]

The issue wasn't to use the power or not, just that when used I have to re-roll all my dice, not the ones that failed to hit or wound. Based off the wording i the codex, this would appear to be the case. Since the wording is may re-roll all rolls to hit or wound, if taken literally mean I have to re-roll all the dice should I decide to use the power. As for the judgement, I didnt fight it since we were using soft scores as well.

[Brother Nihm]

There was a heated discussion on the very same issue back in June.

 

Edit:

 

Here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...170053&st=0

[Almighty1]

The rule, as written in the codex, is:

 

"If successful, the psyker may re-roll all rolls to hit and rolls to wound for the entirety of that player's turn."

 

So, let's see how this sentence breaks down:

 

What are we talking about (what is the subject)?

-The psyker

 

What does the psyker do? (what is the verb-phrase of the predicate?)

-re-rolls

 

What does the psyker re-roll? (what is the object?)

-rolls to hit and rolls to wound.

 

Now, there are two modifiers, one prepositional phrase, and one conditional phrase left in the sentence.

 

The prepositional phrase, of course, is at the end of the sentence and puts limits on the duration of the effect. It is not relevant to this issue.

 

The conditional phrase is at the beginning of the sentence, sets a condition which must be met for the power to take effect in the first place. It, too, is not relevant, here.

 

The first modifier is "may." May is important because it indicates that the psyker is not obligated to re-roll. His re-rolling is optional.

 

The second modifier is "all." The modifier all indicates that all rolls to hit and rolls to wound may be re-rolled.

 

The error you're making is that you're taking the order of the words in the sentence to mean more than it actually does. You're stating that since the order of the words is "re-roll all rolls to hit and rolls to wound" indicates that "all rolls to hit and rolls to wound" is the object. If the object were, in fact, this singular set of rolls, then you would be almost right. The sorcerer would have the option to either re-roll nothing or re-roll each and every roll to hit and each and every roll to wound (he wouldn't even get to pick just rolls to hit or just rolls to wound--it would have to be both.)

 

However, this is not the case. It would take considerably more than simply inserting the word "all" in front of the pair of plural objects to indicate that, instead of several objects, we were talking about a single object which is a set. Were the rules attempting to indicate that either everything had to be re-rolled or nothing could be, they would have failed--they simply do not include an object which is that entire set.

 

Instead, the rule includes several objects and uses the word all to indicate that there is no limit to the number of those objects which are included. That is the way the word all works.

 

The way you are suggesting the word works is simply an error. You really need to study more before you go around trying to correct other people's English.

 

Warp Time, as written, allows the sorcerer to re-roll whichever rolls to hit and rolls to wound he wants--it does not obligate him to choose between re-rolling all of them or none of them. That particular suggestion is a ridiculous over-interpretation of the statement found in the rules. It has no legitimate basis whatsoever.

 

- By the way, that was not my doing, i am no-where near that articulate lol, but it seemed a convincing argument, but im baffled over mentions of prepositional phrases and conditional phrases lol, but the general idea is that you can re-roll any amount of the dice, your choice, so you can re-roll any failed to-hit or to-wound but thats just how I play anyway, if it is proven otherwise, i won't pay for the power, i'd buy nurgle's rot instead.

[Ashe Darke]

EDIT - mis read by mistake.

[kongnico]

i played this list against my friend plays blood angels:

 

Daemon Prince w. Wings, Warptime, Mark of Nurgle 175

Daemon Prince w. Wings, Mark of Nurgle, Nurgles Rot 165

 

Elite

3 terminators w. combimelta 105

 

Troop

7 Plaguemarines w. 2x flamer + Champion w. Powerfist (goes in land raider) 234

7 Plaguemarines w. 2x flamer + Champion w. Powerfist (goes in land raider) 234

7 Plaguemarines w. 2x meltagun + champion w. Powerfist IN rhino 279

7 Plaguemarines w. 2x plasmagun + champion w. Powerfist IN rhino 289

6 Summon Lesser Daemons 78

 

Heavy

Land Raider 220

Land Raider 220

 

1999 points

 

 

he was rather confused by not having too much to fire at, since i deployed all the rhinos in reserve, and just put the 2 land raiders on the table with the princes behind, and started firing at everything with the lascannons... I ended up winning, since I managed to charge most of his units, and swipe them into the ground with the daemon princes... but hot damn, death company is violent, but alas, not as violent as the PM squad + daemon prince i fed them. Also... I really have to learn to remember that putting the prince in base to base with the chaplain and so on, can make me target him. muuuust remember, that would have saved 1-2 marines.

 

Considering not taking fists on all squads, and ditching the lesser daemons, to maybe add a predator or something like that... perhaps more marines :P Any suggestions? most of my opponents plays MEQs apart from one very good ork player :blink:

[Giga]

The only thing I would add there is extra armor and dozer blades on the land raiders. Don't want a 450 pts transport+unit getting immobilized on terrain or doing nothing.

[Ashe Darke]

I'm a big fan of Daemonic Possession on my Raiders. Most things glance and get knocked down to a 1 or 2 and I like to keep control over them. DP helps with that. When you have 2 princes supporting your plague marines you don't necessarily need the fists so dropping some of the champions will free up some more points. I agree about the dozer blades, although I try and avoid moving through cover when possible. The game when I get an immobilised Raider will probably be the point when I try and find a way to put them in.

 

See how much the Termies and lesser daemons cost and figure out what else you could do with the points as I personally wouldn't know what I'd do with 3 Termies. They don't have transport so are either walking and I like to strike as one, or deep striking and 3 guys shouldn't be too hard to take out if they land next to you. More plague marines would be my suggestion and some extra wargear.

 

 

My 2000pt list is similar, much like everyone else's on here.

 

2 x DP - Wings, Warptime MoN

5 x 7 DG - The 2 in Raiders have 2 flamers each, the rest are in Rhinos, 2 squads have 2 meltas each and the other has 2 flamers. All have fist champions and combi weapons relative to what the unit is kitted out with.

2 x Raider - Daemon Possession

 

They can all move 12 inches per turn and are capable of scratching AV14.

[kongnico]

I did consider daemonic possession or extra armour... will probably ditch the small daemons and add one of those :devil:

 

Not too fond of ditching the terminators, its true that they are unlikely to survive for long, but they are exactly that - a suicide squad meant to land somewhere, melta someones face, and die utterly :) it works sometimes, and other times it fails horribly.. would actually like to find the points to add a second squad for redundancy, since im not certain to fry a land raider as it is. Last match, they only managed to eat a dreadnought, and thus made their points back, but my opponents only other vehicle of any consequence was a Baal Predator a long way off.

 

I am in love with adding another DG squad tho, since my main concern is boots on the ground, but on the other hand... it does make the army a little more bland :)

 

Nobody uses dreadnoughts I guess, but the FW one is so pretty that I might :P will let you guys know how it plays out

[Ashe Darke]

Fair enough, I'm big on points efficiency and reliable units which is why I made the suggestion. I do like the FW Termies and I will get some eventually although I doubt I'll use them. The only build for them I really like is a pair of claws on each of them and using them as anti-terminator. It would mean using them in a Raider and supporting them with a Prince though. I guess they might appear in lists to be used against Termie heavy opponents trying to kill as many of them before they strike me.

 

If you're not fussed about firing with your Raiders, something I only do once my plague marines have been dropped off, then Extra Armour is probably better. If you want to be shooting a lot then go for Daemonic Possession as being twin-linked takes the sting off of being BS3.

 

I do like the look of the FW dreads but they're not amazingly reliable and the only way to counter that is to make a CC build. Great anti-infantry but not as well armoured and will be slow relative to the rest of your army.

[kongnico]

nice point about the usage of extra armour vs daemonic possession... only played one match where i was firing like crazy, but that might be the other way around in the next match, and then daemonic would maybe be somewhat wasted :cuss

 

about the dread, i agree... its unreliable and should be CC.. hm :) its just so SEXY!

[kongnico]

Gonna play Planetstrike as defender on saturday - I was wondering whether you guys had any sensible advice? My current idea of tactics hinges on squads of 7 with plasmaguns in each bastion, and reserve more plague marines + daemon princes + demolishers (to dodge the firestorm).

 

I'd love to hear some proper tactics though :huh:

[Ashe Darke]

DemetriiTZ's Guard section seems to be based on the old guard codex or is facing armies that aren't using Medusas. I'm curious as to what the plan is for the following lists as there's very little that I can think of that will do well against it.

 

4 Medusas, 2 separate and 2 in a squadron.

 

Either

 

5 Chimeras all with 10 Veterans each with 3 plasmas.

 

Or

 

2 Chimeras with full Psyker Battle Squads, an Inquisitor with a power that forces a LD check and however many Chimeras with Veterans in that you can fit in. Probably 2 or 3.

 

1 Command Squad in a Chimera. It's 2-3 meltas in there at the moment but that might change to put a lascannon in in the future.

 

These are 2 of my friends lists, one takes more Vets, the other takes the battle squads. The plan is to place the Chimeras in front of the Medusa who can fire over them. If you charge up you will get plasma'd to death or have your LD reduced by 9, forced to take a LD check then charged. You'll fail that test most likely and die. Stubborn and Fearless will stop the Psykers but not the plasma though. Or you can sit back and get pounded by Medusas. You can't fire at them until you take out the Chimera shield.

 

It's very much either get bombed or run into a wall of pain.

 

I played the 5 Vet squads list today and just hunkered down on my objective and got bombed for 7 turns. I placed it well and managed to keep all troops holding, keeping the princes back to go tackle anything coming forward to contest. I almost won as up until turn 6 he wasn't holding his objective. If the game stopped after turn 5 I would have had it but it carried on and he realised he wasn't within 3 inches.

 

The plan of charging up is very risky. If you survive and get up close you're safe from the Medusas, and the plasma can't touch the Raiders (meltas are an issue). But if you open up a Chimera with the plague marines or princes, the men pop out and can then shoot you. Rapid firing plasma will hurt. The only thing I can think of is to park in front of them and open up as many of them as you can and then jump out of the Raiders. Or on objective missions send the Raiders off to contest while you keep a squad in a rhino on your objective, protected by a Prince or 2.

 

It's a problematic list and only mass thunderhammer termies with someone like Lysander, maybe in a Raider, would only be able to get that close and not die from the plasma.

 

 

Maybe I'm being blind but there's doesn't seem to be an easy way to deal with this kinda thing. Any thoughts and ideas are welcome.

[Massawyrm]

Ashe Darke: Your friend is min/maxing his army, tailoring it to spank your specific build. Drop the raiders and 1 Prince. Sub in 9 Obliterators. Park everyone in cover and let the oblits pop the transports, then the Medusas. Force his units to slog through your bolter fire and plasma cannons. Then have a nice long talk with him afterwards about tailoring Guard lists to kill fluff lists like yours.

 

His list can't handle Oblits. Few can.

[Ashe Darke]

That's the point they're not. These are their Tournament lists they're working on. They're not finished but this is how they're looking at the moment. They haven't really changed anything too drastically since they came up with the idea and I've only played one of the lists twice so it's not like they're only using it against me.

 

And I'm doing the same, the idea is that we all go to the Grand Tournament for a laugh. I have one list that I've made a few modifications to, some fine tunes, but I'm not gonna tailor my list to beat it. Besides I've only got 3 Oblits :) And a failed cover save on them is a dead Oblit.

 

So far I've not lost with this list. The almost all draws I have have come from silly tactical things, I've only recently got back into playing and that side of things needs a bit more practice.

 

The point is I like my list and I was wondering if there was any way that I was failing to see to get a less 'death or glory' style victory over the list. It's not to try and out do my friends, it's for the knowledge that my list is prepared for something like that.

 

I do like your plan though. Sticking the Oblits on different layers in buildings would be very annoying as well -_-