Defiler

[Narthecium]

Ah...what is it about this unit that simply makes it so wonderfully vicious and awesome? I would have to say, despite being a loyalist (primarily) player, no unit strikes more "cool factor" into my heart than a defiler.

 

Do you all love them as much as I do?

[doctor_wu]

I do not like them because I have horrible luck when I take them. First time I took one it died along with like 4 other vehicles on turn one. Second time it also died. I also prefer the vindicator or oblits. It also costs a lot more than a vindicator which makes me not really like it.

[Redbaron997]

How does it cost alot more than a Vindicator? Its oonly 5 points more (You are taking possession on the vindie arent you?)

 

Defiliers are great, they are espically wonderful if you want a artillary piece that you dont need to baby sit. Another advantage is that unlike the vindicator, if it losses its cannon, it doesnt become useless. It can just fleet forward and providing supporting assault.

 

Not to mention..it looks AWESOME! Still its a pale shadow in the face of a soul grinder, but doesnt have to DS eithier which is very nice.

[Seahawk]

In the first dozen and a half games, it was beautiful. Rarely scattered the main gun, rarely was knocked out, always slaughtered, awesome. In the next half a dozen games, it's just been trounced. It ALWAYS gets immobilized AND loses the main gun the turn before it is about to totally swing the game in my favor. A turning point lost each time...ugh, so frustrating. Regardless, it's in every game I play. Like you, I just love the damn thing so much!

[Sons of Horus]

well they don't strike me as cool but they are very useful. the big bad battle cannon can add much needed support to a CC oriented force.

[the jeske]

big unit that never gets cover, always seen by enemy , costs as much as two oblits with a weak armor ... no I dont use them specially as a single battle canons in a world of +4 or better cover does less dmg then 2 plasma canons.

[Seahawk]

that never gets cover, always seen by enemy

 

My games can at least prove these two entirely wrong :tu:.

[Biggles]

The thing about the Defiler is that it is really effective in the game, but unfortunately in my opinion it is one of the worst models GW has ever produced. PersonallyI never take one as I only use models I like rather than ones that are good in the game. But this is only an opinion and I know there are other players that think they are great as models.

[minigun762]

I use them, because they are

1) cool looking model (agreed not as good as the Soul Grinder sadly)

2) only way to pack a Battle Cannon unless you're Imperial guard or Orks

3) a flexible hybrid unit which I like (some people hate this I know)

4) its a Chaos only vehicle

5) and I don't like Obliterators because they're expensive and not a fan of the model

[doctor_wu]

I meant the cost of buying them. It does look cool but it scosts as much as a land raider. Also it cannot ram and ramming is fun.

[Zeller]

The defiler is a cool looking model but I'm leary to buying one simply because it looks like a PIA to build and even more so to paint. Transport is another problem. Furthermore they are in my opinion a cliche chaos unit which I am privy to not use for that reason. I would rather take a dreadnought with the same armor values and better skills.

 

There is something about those massive crushing claws...

[Brother Drakist]

The defiler is a cool looking model but I'm leary to buying one simply because it looks like a PIA to build and even more so to paint. Transport is another problem. Furthermore they are in my opinion a cliche chaos unit which I am privy to not use for that reason. I would rather take a dreadnought with the same armor values and better skills.

 

There is something about those massive crushing claws...

 

....except for when that dread goes Fire Frenzy on you.

 

I currently run 2 Defilers, and the jury is still out. I like the model, but I must say that at AR12 and their size you won't last too long unless you take the move and shoot approach. Even then they are not too resilient in CC when you get there as it's rare to not see a Powerfist of some kind these days. I would certainly find Defilers more effective if the number one army was NOT Space Marines. As a result of this I use my Defilers to take heat away from my troops in Rhinos.

[the jeske]

My games can at least prove these two entirely wrong

ok . you play on city fight boards ? if yes , then I hope you dont play a lot against tyranids . In general unless terrain is really huge , most terrain doesnt cover the whole defiler and most smaller stuff [woods , hadges , barricads etc ] dont cover 50% of the model.

[Zeller]

I could care less about fire frenzy and I think most of you guys worry too much about it.

[Sons of Horus]

defilers do not cost as much as raiders! they are much cheaper :lol:

[Seahawk]

Sometimes cityfight, sometimes countryside. But we use small and large size terrain (the suggested type!) and my defiler almost always gets cover and sometimes can completely hide. I do play Tyranids on any type of table, and wipe them up each time. It's really not that hard to hide 50% of the model. The legs and chassis covered gives it.

 

@ Zeller: It's not terribly a PIA to build or paint, depending on how you want to build or paint it, heh. I magnetized mine, also allowing for easy storage, so painting (and transport) was a breeze. The only parts of construction that wasn't as easy as a snapkit were the armor plates on the legs; everything else went together perfectly and was open to conversion.

 

@ Sons of Horus: He meant in terms of money, not points. They cost the same in money, but the defiler is obviously less in points.

[Rain]

I could care less about fire frenzy and I think most of you guys worry too much about it.

 

We worry about it because it can potentially bone you hard. I run a mechanized list that depends on rhinos getting to where they need to be, so suppose I deployed a dread near them (sometimes this is unavoidable) and he decided to go crazy on turn 1, what do I do? If I move the rhinos he gets 2 shots at the rear of the nearest one as it would be moving away from him and therefore exposing its rear. So the dread pops one of my own rhinos? Great...

 

Or better yet! He fries an obliterator or two with his two plasma cannon shots, just what I need, losing a large chunk of my shooting ability due to my own unit. But wait you say, why not give him a heavy bolter or something, why because it's a total waste of points of course. Think about it, you are taking a gimpy weapon because you are afraid of what will happen when that weapon is turned on you, well what about when you have to use it on the enemy? No I'm sorry, but dreads are indeed terrible.

[Zeller]

If I ever get around to buying my FW dread from a LGS buddy it will have a MM. Fortunately I run huge foot-slogging units so the loss of a marine on top of my typically terrible MM shots in general doesn't concern me. If I was mech then he would be a safe distance but not too far away that a unit couldn't bail him out.

[minigun762]

My games can at least prove these two entirely wrong

ok . you play on city fight boards ? if yes , then I hope you dont play a lot against tyranids . In general unless terrain is really huge , most terrain doesnt cover the whole defiler and most smaller stuff [woods , hadges , barricads etc ] dont cover 50% of the model.

 

The positive element of that is that combined with the 72" range, you often are able to draw tLOS of to your targets because of your size and hit them. While they might still be in cover, dropping some Battle Cannon rounds on their head early on is rarely a bad thing. And depending on the size of the table, there is always the chance that you can out range the typical 48" weapons that would be targetting you.

[Redbaron997]

Minigun is right, remember your large stature can be a good thing in addition to a bad. Most thigs that grant 50% cover, dont do so from the height that a Defilier uses.

 

and cover saves or not, a Str 8 large blast template hurts.

 

Speaking of Cityfights and cover being everywhere, Do any of yall think we are to quick to get ride of the TL Heavy Flamer? I mean a Heavy Flamer is good in anyone books, a TL one is even better, anytihng standard infantry touched by it is pretty much garunteed to be dead if it doesnt have a good AS. The reason it is given up is cause of fleet, but even if its not used in every game, would that one CC attack be that missed?

[Zeller]

I never really considered dropping the TL HF since it's nice and cheap. It's simply too effective when the defiler gets ready to assault. Plus those memories from DoW with a mass of defilers scrambling towards the enemy while filling the air with fire. Ah, demonic BBQ.

[Seahawk]

I never swap either arm for an extra ccw. That's what truly makes the defiler pointless once it gets immobilized and the cannon gone. All those attacks and nothing to do...TL heavy flamer all the way!

[minigun762]

I mean a Heavy Flamer is good in anyone books, a TL one is even better, anytihng standard infantry touched by it is pretty much garunteed to be dead if it doesnt have a good AS. The reason it is given up is cause of fleet, but even if its not used in every game, would that one CC attack be that missed?

 

I've thought about this alot. As I mentioned elsewhere my default idea was always to give 2 DCCWs because the Defiler is already a hybrid unit. I buy it 75% of the time for its Battle Cannon. Hurling pie plates at a much longer range than the Vindicator is a great thing to have. My backup answer was that if I lost the Cannon, I'd be Fleeting into combat and the number of attacks would then be a bonus.

 

I must admit though that I'm tempted to trade in 1 of my DCCWs for either the TL Heavy Flamer or Reaper AC.

The TL Heavy Flamer is probably the superior weapon, autohitting, rerolling S5 attacks and no cover save? It will slaughter tons of things. The only negative is that you're going to fire it maybe once a game (if you're already within charge range and don't need to assault)

 

The Reaper AC is the "weaker" special weapon because it relies on your BS3 to hit (thanksfully its TL'd) and puts out less overall damage against Infantry. However it is a pretty solid transport buster and it has a range that means if it gets immobilized and loses the Battle Cannon, you can still threaten things within 36".

 

Choices choices...

 

Oh wait! I have 2 Defilers, so I'll do one of each! ^_^

[MuGGzy]

I just got one simply because it's a cool looking modle and I have never owned one before.

I plan on magnetizing the turret and using it as either a Defiler or Predator depending on my needs.

[Brother Blackbone]

Yeah, I was wondering why I got a couple and realized why. I like the fact that they were made as daemon-engines for Abaddon's Black Crusade and that you can do so many different things with them. I had them pegged as self-propelled artillery until I saw gameplay from DoW!

 

- Blackbone