monkey boy Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Are assault termies with out a land raider playable? I ask because 1) my chapters fluff says they lost most off their armour, and 2) I like the assault termie models but I don't want to spend £25 on models I will never use and I don't want to pay £35 and 250 points to buy a raider so I can use them. With a storm shield they would have a 3+ invl save so would a deep strike be okay or certain death? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 It works providing there is sufficient support for them already on the ground. Teleporting them in to support Drop Pod landings is a classic tactic. Locator Beacons are well worth the cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp Angel Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 The first problem with any delivery method for assault terminators is Time to Target. The second problem with any delivery method for assault terminators is Time Spent Vulnerable. Time to Target: How long it takes you to get them into optimum kill zone. For assault terminators, that's 12" from the enemy on a turn they can assault. If you walk them, you have a chance of them getting into the thick of things on turn 2. If you deep strike them, you aren't going to see them hit the table until turn 2, and you'll be unable to assault until a turn later. With a Land Raider, you have a possibility of a turn 1 Time to Target, if you go second and the enemy advances into your 20" assault envelope. Time Spent Vulnerable: Every shooting phase you aren't in assault, you're vulnerable to being shot down. If you are deep striking or foot slogging, then you are going to spend at least 1 turn vulnerable to shooting. Probably more. Exactly how many is determined by how many opponent turns you aren't engaged in hand to hand. If there's more than one turn between assaults (widely spaced enemy) that's making your total Time to Target over the course of the game worse and increasing your Time Spent Vulnerable. With a Land Raider, you at least have a CHANCE of jumping back into it, or can use it as cover for your advance, or use it to reduce the amount of incoming fire for each turn you're vulnerable. So... yeah, you can deliver Assault terminators any way you want. You just degrade your effectiveness by not using a Land Raider as the delivery platform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedwin183 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 If you give them all TH/SS and you use cover properly it could work. I'd be very weary though unless you took Shrike. In which case, they'd get fleet and you'd be in good shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley Tweedle Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I'd not recommend it because it's far less points effective. They are too slow if used as footsloggers. If they are teleported, the entire game depends on successful reserve rolls and yet they are an easy target when they arrive. I played against such armies and termies never survived my rapid fire. I run a large sternguard squad in a LR (Hestan HQ). Multiple flamer templates with re-rolls + pistols + 27 cc attacks + power fist. Used to run them into a large 2+/3++ termie squad with Lysander. The poor yellow guys never had the chance to strike back. You just can't roll 30+ dice without getting any ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund's Ghost Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Attaching a Librarian w/gate you can get the squad roughly where you want it on the 1st turn, but they will still take a lot of fire, you will eventually roll 1's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinholt Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 It also depends what else is in your army. If you are playing a drop pod force, you certainly aren't going to want to leave just a single land raider with terminators in it as your starting army on the board. Likewise, if you play a very aggressive, very assault-focused force and will already have many units surging forward, it might not be as much of a problem to deep strike them in as your opponent will have other things to worry about. Most of the time, I'd take a raider, but if you have a strong reason to do otherwise, it's possible. Just make sure you have the list to support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey boy Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 It also depends what else is in your army. If you are playing a drop pod force, you certainly aren't going to want to leave just a single land raider with terminators in it as your starting army on the board. Likewise, if you play a very aggressive, very assault-focused force and will already have many units surging forward, it might not be as much of a problem to deep strike them in as your opponent will have other things to worry about. Most of the time, I'd take a raider, but if you have a strong reason to do otherwise, it's possible. Just make sure you have the list to support it. Well my army is a static fire base of devs and sniper scouts, supported by 2 rhino squads MM attack bikes for killing tanks and a 10 man assault squad with flamers and a chaplain so swapping out the devs for termies may work. Thanks for the help guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justicar Shodan Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 You could attach Shrike and then infiltrate with them :) Although i wouldn recommend it if you want to keep your friends :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tutteman Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Can Assault Terminators work with out a Raider? It worked for me at my school club to the point where all my friends just removed a squad if it was charged by them. Then again, I did have a Chaplain AND a Librarian in the squad AND followed it up with a squad with an Apothecary. So it was really points heavy. about 500pts+ heavy. That said they did once take out Abbadon and his ten man retinue once. Once. So yes they can work but if it doesn't start praying for the rest of your army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinholt Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Can Assault Terminators work with out a Raider?It worked for me at my school club to the point where all my friends just removed a squad if it was charged by them. Then again, I did have a Chaplain AND a Librarian in the squad AND followed it up with a squad with an Apothecary. So it was really points heavy. about 500pts+ heavy. That said they did once take out Abbadon and his ten man retinue once. Once. So yes they can work but if it doesn't start praying for the rest of your army. What I want to know is how you managed to get an apothecary if you already had a chaplain and a librarian for your HQ choices? Or was this back in 4th edition, which is a whole different affair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tutteman Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Yep it was back in 4th ed with the Trait purity above all (I think) But I stopped using it recently as our games just got slightly predictable, boring and it wasn't pretty to start with. It went something like this Chop..chop...chop Plus now my lightning clawed Chaplain is illegal :down: But I wouldn't advise copying it. Sure it worked but that was 4th ed and way too many eggs in one basket to depend on. Just a few ones on the armour saves and there they go.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley Tweedle Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Can Assault Terminators work with out a Raider?It worked for me at my school club to the point where all my friends just removed a squad if it was charged by them. Then again, I did have a Chaplain AND a Librarian in the squad AND followed it up with a squad with an Apothecary. So it was really points heavy. about 500pts+ heavy. That said they did once take out Abbadon and his ten man retinue once. Once. So yes they can work but if it doesn't start praying for the rest of your army. What I want to know is how you managed to get an apothecary if you already had a chaplain and a librarian for your HQ choices? Or was this back in 4th edition, which is a whole different affair? Command squad does not count against HQ allowance. Codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinholt Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Would this be the command squad that you can take one of for each space marine captain (and a handful of special characters) in each army, which I know he's not taking because he's already got a librarian and a chaplain listed as his HQ choices? :P That's why I asked about 4th Ed; in 5th, the HQ dynamics are a bit different, as is the whole codex, and it impacts the use of a lot of assault units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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