sternguard?

[backside]

looking at converting some. deathwatch I suspect

 

slightly tited up they come in at not much less than 300 points after a few combies and a power fist, with cantor they do count as scoring which is cool

 

but for the points I just wonder if they are actually worth it, with out giving them a drop pod and having a libby gating them around

 

I love to crush people with just good old fashoned tac marines sterns are tacs on steriods, but I'm wodering if they are worth the expense

[Reinholt]

I suppose it depends upon what you mean by "worth it".

 

The fundamental issue with Sternguard for me is that they are very powerful in shooting, are about average in assault, but are underpowered in terms of stamina simply because taking a lot of them will drop your model count pretty dramatically.

 

Armies that have similarly high amounts of hitting power, especially if it is more maneuverable, are going to give you fits to combat as a player with a lot of Sternguard. So would I take them? Yes, I'm working on a block of them right now for my army, actually. Would I take them without making sure I had a pretty solid count of scouts and tactical marines already available? No, because I'll run into some jerk playing a list that has enough hitting power to wipe me off the board if I get unlucky due to low model count and low toughness.

 

Remember, Sterns are just T4 with no invulnerable. It's just a basic marine you pay 25 points for when someone is shooting at you.

[Koremu]

Their optimal performance point is under 12" range from the enemy. This means that they are heavily vulnerable to both short range anti-infantry fire and close assaults.

 

Together, this means that they MUST be supported by at least enough troops to finish off whatever target they have just weakened. You also need to be able to deal with things that are immune to the Sternguards main weapon options - Vehicles, especially Walker types.

 

The typical routine is for the Sternguard to Rapid Fire a target, then an Assault squad assault in from a different angle, which will usually finish the target off. I also usually have an additional Tactical Squad nearby for blocking the next target.

 

Like most Elites, they are great when supported properly, but alone they are expensive.

[tedwin183]

Sternguard are probably the most worth-taking elite choice in the new dex. Keeping them barebones is a good idea, though I see all the time that people spam combi meltas or combi flamers. I, personally, use a 10 man squad of them all with their normal boltguns and nothing else. Drop podding them into rapid fire range is key and they definitely do have the ability to completely mow an entire squad down in shooting. I usually use them very aggressively, as most xeno players have heard stories about sternguard on the table and are very weary of getting into any kind of close quarters with them, for fear of their ammo loadout. And to be fair they are veterans, they do all have 2 attacks base 3 on the charge. 30 attacks on the charge from a squad meant to be solely shooty is pretty effin' good, if you ask me. Like I said though, keep them cheap and you won't feel bad about losing a guy or two. Barebones, 250 points for the whole squad. Once your opponent sees what they can do in the shooting phase, he will do anything in his power to kill them all off. That, to me, makes them worth it.

[Chaplian Silkor]

Sternguard are really handy to kill hard-to-kill characters, like the Nightbringer! With his T8 it can't be wounded by the common bolter, but when you use bolters with special issue ammunition you'll get different results! I killed the C'tan in 1 turn of shooting. The squad then got assaulted by 2 Necron Lords on Skimmer bodies, but the sternguard killed them too!

These guys are really awesome when used appropiately...

 

P.S. the Sternguard squad I used was 10 men strong and had only a drop pod. No other equipement what-so-ever...

[Reinholt]

My Sternguard squad is 10 strong, with a single power fist and 2 combi-meltas.

 

I usually deploy them via rhino, but sometimes also via drop pod. I agree completely with the school of thought regarding keeping them cheap. I would definitely recommend a power fist (because then you keep the bolter on the sergeant for the shooting potential, and often the best way for your foe to neutralize your sternguard is to assault them, so I keep the fist to make them pay for it). The only combi-weapon I really recommend is the melta to pop the odd vehicle with, as plasma is redundant given the special ammo and a flamer isn't really necessary, as they already have enough horde killing potential (and if you are shooting at cheap hordes with your sternguard, you are probably ignoring better targets).

 

At least that's been my experience; making them too expensive leaves me light on troops elsewhere, and I'd worry about them getting tarpitted and the rest of my army wiped out.

[Koremu]

A couple of Combi-Meltas is handy because you can perform a drive-by on a tank from the top hatch of the Rhino.

 

More is overkill.

[StormTAG]

What about the Heavy Flamer? Anyone found that worth taking?

[rockdeity]

that's hard for me to imagine being useful as at that range, you have rapid-fire ammo that can ignore cover. seems pretty redundant. I like two las-cans or other heavy weapons to make Vet Dev squads, personally.

[Kairos]

For some reason, tons of people give their sternguard heavy flamers, which I see as pointless.

[Koremu]

I think it's the 'oooh, Heavy Flamer, can't get one of those on a Tac squad' *grab* factor.

[Kairos]

<_< Yeah...

[AkiraCho]

i dont bother with stern guard, they are just hyped up marines if you ask me.

 

i have avoided them in all lists. because even with all those shiny toys they still die like regular marines.

 

so with that in mind. i dont take them

 

theres nothing they cant do that 2 squads with heavy/special weapons cant do as well.

 

but 2 squads sure as hell can tie up more combat, be more resiliant, and hold 2 objectives.

 

and people dont use those heavy T8 characters too often outside of night bringer and wraaith lords, and even then you should have the fire power to wipe that out.

[night walker]

they still die like regular marines

 

true but they kill so much better than your regular marine almost as good s a marine really should be killing stuff :P

[Jackelope King]

I like sticking Sternguard in a rhino and having them cruise around wreaking havoc on tasty enemy infantry. With good positioning, you can usually park the rhino and unload in such a way that most of your Sternguard will get shots at the target while denying line of sight to a huge chunk of the enemy force. Sticking them in a drop pod has always seemed like expensive suicide (though I must admit that I like the idea of dropping a big squad of them with combi-meltas to back up my traditional turn 1 Ironclad dread).

[monkey boy]

What about a smaller sqaud with a razorback, the razorback would limit numbers thus relegating your rather expensive unit to secondary roles, but I can imagine them doing a good job of guarding a flank, or perhaps teaming them up with a dred?

[ExarPucc]

I'll throw a HF or two in the squad if they're deploying by DP. Generally the ignores cover aspect of the weapon increases the overall effectiveness of them. If they're not being put in a DP though, combi-meltas all around and that's about it.

[Starbuck_]

Still figuring out how I would take sternguard in my army and how I would fit them in, but I would likely give them 2 combi-meltas or meltas and a fist + maybe a transport

[AkiraCho]

OR what do you guys think of this, take your sternguard squad, lower their points, give them a melta or a flamer, and a random heavy weapon, and move them to troops, double the number of marines break them into 2 squads take away their special bullets, let them take objectives and call them tactical marines?!

[Warp Angel]

i dont bother with stern guard, they are just hyped up marines if you ask me.

 

i have avoided them in all lists. because even with all those shiny toys they still die like regular marines.

 

so with that in mind. i dont take them

 

theres nothing they cant do that 2 squads with heavy/special weapons cant do as well.

 

but 2 squads sure as hell can tie up more combat, be more resiliant, and hold 2 objectives.

 

and people dont use those heavy T8 characters too often outside of night bringer and wraaith lords, and even then you should have the fire power to wipe that out.

 

OR what do you guys think of this, take your sternguard squad, lower their points, give them a melta or a flamer, and a random heavy weapon, and move them to troops, double the number of marines break them into 2 squads take away their special bullets, let them take objectives and call them tactical marines?!

 

 

Tactical squad with Rhino and basic weapons: 230

Sternguard squad with Rhino and basic weapons: 280

 

Please tell me where you (and others) keep getting this "two tactical squads or one sternguard squad" nonsense from?

 

Add a non-basic special weapon and a non-basic heavy weapon to both, and the Sternguard come out with even less of a price differential. Sergeant options (like the powerfist) are identical in cost.

[monkey boy]

OR what do you guys think of this, take your sternguard squad, lower their points, give them a melta or a flamer, and a random heavy weapon, and move them to troops, double the number of marines break them into 2 squads take away their special bullets, let them take objectives and call them tactical marines?!

 

You already made your thoughts on sternguard quite clear, just who does this post help? Sternguard do things that tacs can't even if that is just get shot at to preserve the rest of your army for a turn.

[Warp Angel]

Still figuring out how I would take sternguard in my army and how I would fit them in, but I would likely give them 2 combi-meltas or meltas and a fist + maybe a transport

 

If you have 50 points more than you'd pay for a tactical squad available to you, you buy an identically equipped Sternguard squad. You don't have to "work" to fit them in the list.

 

And if you're considering a footslogging chapter master with a power fist, Pedro Kantor is actually a decently priced deal to make them scoring.

 

Even when they aren't scoring, Sternguard:

 

1) Inflict 33% more wounds against MEQs in shooting than a tactical squad, something no other marine unit can do

2) Inflict 100% more wounds when assaulted than a tactical squad, the equivalent of an assault squad's attacks

3) Inflict 50% more wounds when assaulting than a tactial squad, the equivalent of an assault squad's attacks

4) Fail a leadership check with a missing sergeant 8.33% fewer times than a tactical squad, the equivalent of terminators

 

If any of that is worth 50 points to you, then it's worth it to you.

[rockdeity]

Tactical squad with Rhino and basic weapons: 230

Sternguard squad with Rhino and basic weapons: 280

 

Please tell me where you (and others) keep getting this "two tactical squads or one sternguard squad" nonsense from?

 

Add a non-basic special weapon and a non-basic heavy weapon to both, and the Sternguard come out with even less of a price differential. Sergeant options (like the powerfist) are identical in cost.

 

I'll see that and raise you a:

 

Devastator squad with 2xlascans - 160 points

Sternguard squad with 2xlascans - 155 points

 

Trade up the signum (one BS 5 shot while the sarge lives) with 3 hax bolters and 2 attacks each to make them hold up better against charge... all for 5 points cheaper.

 

take pedro and now your vet devs score as well.

[Koremu]

2) Inflict 100% more wounds when assaulted than a tactical squad, the equivalent of an assault squad's attacks

3) Inflict 50% more wounds when assaulting than a tactical squad, the equivalent of an assault squad's attacks

 

You're going a bit overboard with these two. Close quarters ability doesn't change that much because the Sergeant is already A2 in a Tac squad and in both cases is the only one packing CC weapons.

 

 

I'll see that and raise you a:

 

Devastator squad with 2xlascans - 160 points

Sternguard squad with 2xlascans - 155 points

 

Trade up the signum (one BS 5 shot while the sarge lives) with 3 hax bolters and 2 attacks each to make them hold up better against charge... all for 5 points cheaper.

 

take pedro and now your vet devs score as well.

 

I wish Devastator Squads could be made scoring or troops somehow.

[Warp Angel]

2) Inflict 100% more wounds when assaulted than a tactical squad, the equivalent of an assault squad's attacks

3) Inflict 50% more wounds when assaulting than a tactical squad, the equivalent of an assault squad's attacks

 

You're going a bit overboard with these two. Close quarters ability doesn't change that much because the Sergeant is already A2 in a Tac squad and in both cases is the only one packing CC weapons.

 

Yup, you're right. I should have clarified tactical and assault "marine", not squad.