Marneus Calgar - a Discussion

[Chucku]

I'm a big Calgar fan. He's in Termie Armor riding a LR with a squad of Assault Terminators armed with Thunderhammers in my tourney army. He brings a lot to the game.

 

I love God of War. Because I can choose to pass a Morale test I can keep enemy units tied up in assault until the very last man on my side dies. No running or taking wounds due to ATSKNF. No worries about Combat Squadding Tac Squads (going to Ldr 8), either. It simply removes Morale as a factor - or more accurately, allows me to dictate how Morale (for my side) will be a factor.

 

In my usage he wields his power sword (loses the extra 2 ccw attack :<) most of the time. This is because the Termies have Thunderhammers already and opponents prefer to cluster their attacks on Calgar in hopes of taking him down. Better he go first and thin out the opposition. WS 6 and rerolled wounds still means he packs a wallop.

 

Don't underestimate his storm bolter. With wound rerolls and AP2 it can reliably put a wound on most models every turn.

 

Eternal Warrior is essential. This lets him take down assault-oriented, 5-wound Carnifexes in one round. Sure, he needs to go at I1 to use the Gauntlets and will probably get smacked in return. But no Instant Death from S9 or S10 hits, a 4++ save and 4 wounds means he's walking away.

 

I usually keep his Orbital Bombardment for late-game. It's a nice way to clear out a distant held objective or put the hurt on a key enemy unit on a roll. But against certain armies, where I'm going first, I'll set him up to get the Orbital Bombardment off on Turn 1, then hop in the LR and move out Turn 2.

 

Have yet to use the Teleport Homer in his Termie Armor. It might work well if I ran a unit of shooty termies.

[greymeister]

can anything survive 30 ork boyz charging though? That hardly seems like a fair requirement, hehe.

 

Exactly.

 

I love God of War. Because I can choose to pass a Morale test I can keep enemy units tied up in assault until the very last man on my side dies. No running or taking wounds due to ATSKNF. No worries about Combat Squadding Tac Squads (going to Ldr 8), either. It simply removes Morale as a factor - or more accurately, allows me to dictate how Morale (for my side) will be a factor.

 

This. Not even including his other traits, I see Calgar as 150 point CM that you pay another 100 points for this ability. Remember you can always try to flee from shooting or assaults if you get to take a test just like with Combat Tactics, so when it benefits you get out of CC and shoot some more, or just insure that you get the charge.

 

I usually keep his Orbital Bombardment for late-game. It's a nice way to clear out a distant held objective or put the hurt on a key enemy unit on a roll. But against certain armies, where I'm going first, I'll set him up to get the Orbital Bombardment off on Turn 1, then hop in the LR and move out Turn 2.

 

I still haven't found a time where I don't want him moving first turn, but I definitely agree, if you find yourself not moving because you're locked in CC or something, go ahead and fire it off and see if you can clear an objective that your opponent thinks his safely his :(

[Chucku]

@ greymeister

 

I completely agree regarding keeping Calgar on the move and 9x out of 10 he'll be moving forth to engage on the LR first thing.

 

But against juicy IG gunline armies that Turn 1 S10 AP1 pie plate is just a delight to see since IG setup troop density minimizes the effect of scatter. In these cases I will run the LR up a little under 6" on Turn 1 with the Assault Termies loaded so it can shoot 2 weapons. Then on Turn 2 Calgar runs up, boards and the LR is off (though no assault from it that turn).

[rockdeity]

just a thought... can chapter masters use their orbital strike if they are locked in combat during their movement phase? They aren't moving.

[Chucku]

just a thought... can chapter masters use their orbital strike if they are locked in combat during their movement phase? They aren't moving.

 

No. The Orbital Bombardment rule states that it counts as shooting. No shooting if locked in combat.

[Captain Idaho]

It counts as firing a weapon according to it's profile in Codex Space Marines, sooo... No.

 

Dang you beat me to it Chucku :devil:

[greatcrusade08]

There are a couple of ways to improve Calgar, the first is with the Honour guard with banner for +1 attack.

Second is a chappy for re-rolled hits, Calgar automatically gets reroll wounds which is cool..

Or add in Khan for furious charge.. Calgar hitting with +1S and +1 I is very cool..

 

Just imagine what Calgar, Khan and HG could do!

 

GC08

[Chucku]

There are a couple of ways to improve Calgar, the first is with the Honour guard with banner for +1 attack.

Second is a chappy for re-rolled hits, Calgar automatically gets reroll wounds which is cool..

Or add in Khan for furious charge.. Calgar hitting with +1S and +1 I is very cool..

 

Just imagine what Calgar, Khan and HG could do!

 

GC08

 

I'm not a big fan of the Honor Guard - nice offense but no defense against power weapons and given that they're where the battle's the thickest this just dooms them to an early (and expensive!) death. Though Calgar with one more attack ... <drool>

 

I've actually play tested him in a Command Squad with Khan. OMG! He's a Furious Charging, FNP'd killing machine!

 

But I wound up taking him out to lead the Assault Terminator contingent as that provides my tourney army with two monster units for my opponents to bite their nails over and the Assault Termies were dying a little too easily for my tastes on their own.

[greymeister]

Yeah Honor Guard aren't something I'm a big fan of. 5 more points and you get a TH/SS and 2+/3++ save. Uh...next question.

 

I'm still going to try out Marneus with squads that aren't built for CC. The theory I think is the same as what Captain Idaho has posted, but basically your Terminators/Assault/Vanguard guys can kill enough on their own to be a threat, whereas Marneus makes the squad he's with a threat, so why not put it with one which isn't already really a threat.

[Captain Idaho]

Let me know how it goes, I don't get to game so much now-a-days due to family commitments etc... (still, get to catch up on painting)

 

I love my Honour Guard and find they are superb against just about anything provided you have a suitable character leading them. The Initiative 5/S6/re-roll misses combo from having a Chaplain accompany my Relic blade Honour Guard generally thins the numbers of enemy attacks, though I admit hidden power weapons and Howling Banshees/Genestealers are a problem for them - but then I would shoot the latter to pieces most games anyway and use the Honour Guard to engage the enemies weaker units.

 

Matter of taste I guess; I prefer the offensive ability they have while other people prefer to balance offence with durability, or go further and go for TH/SS Assault Terminators.

[antique_nova]

Skipping through my codex I suddenly realized that since it came out there has been a tendency for special characters to turn up. Two out of three lists seem to have either Vulcan, Kantor or Lysander, and the rest have either Khan or Tigurius, or even (!) no special character. But what about Mister God of War himself? I cant recall a single occassion where I have seen him in a list or on the table. There's only two possible reasons for that - if we ignore the slim chance that I might just be missing something.

 

1. He's not worth the points
   
   Calgar isn't exactly what one would consider a bargain. At 250 points the price tag is huge. Maybe all those cool special rules he comes with are not worth the whopping 250 points one has to pay for him?

   
   

2. He's just too bad
   
   Having never used him myself I don't quite see that number one is the reason. Sure, 250 points, but what do you get? Let's forget for a moment that he is like a chapter master, only better. You get all the standard stuff, orbital bombardment etc. And then the specials: Stormbolter with AP2, gets to reroll each and every diceroll in combat. But it gets better: He, and any other Model with Combat Tactics can
   choose
   wether they pass or fail a morale check they're forced to take. That's almost worth the 250 points on its own!
   
   
   Therefore the only reason why he isn't taken that's left is that he is just tooo bad to inflict on your buddies. He's cheese incarnate, a taboo.

   
   

 

What do you think? Is he too good or too bad? Or is it just bad style to take him? Or am I entirely missing the point?

 

i think bad, i slaughter him and his entire retinue guard of 5 men with just an eversor assassin in 2-3 rounds of combat. this was in a 1000 point game, he sliced through a razerback as running across the balttefield dogding firepower as if it was nothing and slaughtered everything, he was amazing :), although he can have bad games. ps. watch out for the ctan wielding assassin she can carve through almost all sm characters and their retinues with ease.

thanks

antique_nova

[rockdeity]

I love God of War. Because I can choose to pass a Morale test I can keep enemy units tied up in assault until the very last man on my side dies. No running or taking wounds due to ATSKNF. No worries about Combat Squadding Tac Squads (going to Ldr 8), either. It simply removes Morale as a factor - or more accurately, allows me to dictate how Morale (for my side) will be a factor.

 

This. Not even including his other traits, I see Calgar as 150 point CM that you pay another 100 points for this ability. Remember you can always try to flee from shooting or assaults if you get to take a test just like with Combat Tactics, so when it benefits you get out of CC and shoot some more, or just insure that you get the charge.

 

except it turns out it doesn't work this way according to Adepticon rules, according to the rules subforum. The argument is GoW is an auto-pass if you choose to pass it, and therefore is subject to no-retreat, forcing you to take saves.

[Brother Swift]

I'm surprised Warp angel has even commented anything on this

[Primarch Naogedd]

Hey all, I'd just like to add my thoughts on this.

 

Firstly, Marneus is underpriced a lot more than you might think. Compare: Abbadon the Despoiler. Almost equal in combat ability, except for Marneus' extra wounds and Abbadon's annoying tendancy to sit around and have his face munched by his own sword. Marneus can field 3 Honour Guard squads, but that's usually not an issue as one super-ultra-mega-death unit along with your SC and your mandatory Troop choices makes it kinda hard to fit more uber-units in.

 

The kicker here is that while Abbadon and Marneus have a very similar combat ability for a nearly identical points cost, Marneus has one of the most useful and game-deciding abilities around, God of War. This, in my eyes, places the Chapter Master of the Ultrasmurfs out of the realm of fairness. You may have arguments against that, but that's my opinion.

 

Naogedd out.

[War Angel]

i played an appoc game with him recently. i was feilding a decent amount of marines, along with a guard player who had a baneblade and a fair amount of ground force's. the two of us had 3000 a peice.

 

some other kid came in with 1500 points (i think), all he had was calgar, honour guard, LR, two really ruined tac squads (didnt have the right numbers and had specail weapons) and a termie squad with chaplan and libby

 

really, it wasnt what we needed at all, But that LR unloaded calgar with his HG, and charged a preaty large infestation of chaos and nids.... held them there for a few turns and we won the game

[Felix Octavian]

can anything survive 30 ork boyz charging though? That hardly seems like a fair requirement, hehe.

 

10 man HG with Chapter Banner and all Relic Blades, with attached Chaplain and a Chapter Master with Relic Blade. After charging and annihilating 30 boyz before they had a chance to strike back, they were charged by and proceeded to kill 45 more boyz, 13 nobz and a fully upgraded Warboss (PF, Cybork, Squiq, etc) over the coarse of the next few turns. It was a good day for the Imperium. ;)

 

Oh, and Calgar only beat Lysander in 17 of the last 30 one-on-one combats I just rolled (alternating who got the charge, just to be fair). So I'd say his worth really does come down to his abilities, and not his combat prowess.

[Captain Idaho]

Did you count in his shooting? Anyway, it don't matter too much, because his combat abilities are still up and above Lysander, way above. Lysander is like the only model that could negate his combat prowas and their points aren't balanced against eachother in combat rather than their overall abilities and capabilities in combat in comparison to the rest of the army.

[Terminus]

can anything survive 30 ork boyz charging though? That hardly seems like a fair requirement, hehe.

 

10 man HG with Chapter Banner and all Relic Blades, with attached Chaplain and a Chapter Master with Relic Blade.

That's pretty crazy! Although I think I would prefer a Librarian with Force Dome and Null Zone with that squad. Force Dome basically turns them into terminators, and bajillion power weapon attacks + forcing re-rolls of invulnerable saves = doom.

[Steve Irwin]

can anything survive 30 ork boyz charging though? That hardly seems like a fair requirement, hehe.

 

10 man HG with Chapter Banner and all Relic Blades, with attached Chaplain and a Chapter Master with Relic Blade.

That's pretty crazy! Although I think I would prefer a Librarian with Force Dome and Null Zone with that squad. Force Dome basically turns them into terminators, and bajillion power weapon attacks + forcing re-rolls of invulnerable saves = doom.

 

Yeah, but, how much does that 30 Ork Boy squad cost? Ah yes, 180 pts without upgrades...

Then, how much does this Honour Guard squad of 'doom' cost? Um, well over 300 pts for 12 un-scoring models... :)

So, if I take the equivalent number of Boys (or even Nob Bikers... :) ) for the same cost as your Honour Guard squad, then charge it all into your 'doom' squad, then we shall see what kind of damage is wrought. I seriously doubt anything will be left standing of this ‘Honour’ Guard squad... :)

Just for the record, I don't even collect Orks.

Steve

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah it is overkill. But I think a "humble" 225pts Honour Guard can be useful at killing 30 Orks on the charge, combined with other units hitting the Ork attack wave. Calgar in there supported with a Chaplain, the Ork player has some awesome powerful unit to go through before the awesomely powerful character within the them all is "vulnerable".

[Terminus]

Yeah, but, how much does that 30 Ork Boy squad cost? Ah yes, 180 pts without upgrades...

Then, how much does this Honour Guard squad of 'doom' cost? Um, well over 300 pts for 12 un-scoring models... ;)

So, if I take the equivalent number of Boys (or even Nob Bikers... :) ) for the same cost as your Honour Guard squad, then charge it all into your 'doom' squad, then we shall see what kind of damage is wrought. I seriously doubt anything will be left standing of this ‘Honour’ Guard squad... :o

Just for the record, I don't even collect Orks.

Steve

Yeah, don't care. 12 badass unique models > 100 boring ork grunts.

[kirasu]

His main problem is he is an abbadon clone that strikes last.. Why pay the points cost for abbadon and not get I6, T5 and tons of attacks that also re-roll wound..

 

All for the ability to pass or fail morale tests? No thanks, I think I'll take Vulkan

 

Most of the ultramarine characters are way too expensive for no reason while the non-UMs are extremely good. Sorta strange given the fluff on how amazing the UMs are and that you should rush to your local GW store and buy them! :D

[Captain Idaho]

His main problem is he is an abbadon clone that strikes last.. Why pay the points cost for abbadon and not get I6, T5 and tons of attacks that also re-roll wound..

 

All for the ability to pass or fail morale tests? No thanks, I think I'll take Vulkan

 

Well it's paying those points for Abbaddon with powerfists because we are Space Marines and can't get Abbaddon. Besides, Calgar is better value for money. He is a better all rounder, able to smash most things in CC, shoot each turn with a good weapon and enable your army to behave exactly how you want them to (i.e. pass or fail morale tests at your discrection).

[Brother Ariman]

Well I have started running Calgar recently with a bodygaurd not yet mentioned: Grey Knight Terminators, a 4 man squad of the big guys with Calgar using his power weapon providing 5 initiative 5 attacks which hit on +3 on MI's with re-roll to wound basically making it wound on a 2+ chance and the grey knights get 13 attacks with 4 initiative wounding on a 2+ and hitting on a 3+ for MI's aswell providing the killing capability of a thunderhammer squad at a faster initiative.

[Captain Idaho]

That is a nice combo. Brother Tual has done similar things in his lists.