Brother Delias Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Okay, odd as it is, I don't actually find Tzeentch as a Dark God. Chaotic most definitly, but not evil. My reasoning for this is the fact that Tzeentch is the imbodiment of the progression of intelligence. Every thought, every grain of reasoning all flows into one unknowable goal, that as long as intelligent expirementation continues, shall never cease to be unattainable. Tzeentch exists as long as new ideas can be formed, and so must continue to have mortals think. This does not make him evil in my opinion. What all is your thoughts(heh, the irony)?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julgolax Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Tzeentch is plenty evil. Every one of his trillions of plans for mortals and even gods alike will end with someone getting killed. In the end, time flows as tzeentch commands it, (thats not evil enough?) and he is a fickle master. Imagine you are a terribly powerful sorceror who is next to an alpha psyker in strength of mind but wait, its all a dream that tzeentch put in you head while you walked into an imperial guard mine field. Thats the kind of evil that tzeentch is. He is ultimatly the ultimate deciever. Tzeentch plays with reality as though it were putty in your hands, tearing it appart and reforming it at will. Now, if you are still with me, i think you can see why tzeentch is evil. Just thinking about it is evil because tzeentch is so deep in the backstory to warhammer and 40k that you could consider miracles, his doing >). Mull over that for a while. *cackling* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwasfrozen Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Have you ever read the play "KIng Lear" by a certain William Shakespear, If so think of the character Edmund, Tzeentch, like Edmund is Machiavellian in the extreme, caring only for power and not caring who he steps on to get it, also as the poster above me has said, Tzeentch tricks his own followers with promises of power only to turn them into spawn when they are no longer of use to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Tzeentch is evil, don't try and take that away from me! -_- But yeah, Tzeentch delights in the suffering of mortals (and immortals for that matter), he isn't the embodiment of "the progression of intelligence", he is the embodiment of change above all, and the biggest change is changing life to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwasfrozen Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 he isn't the embodiment of "the progression of intelligence", Incorrect, Tzeentch is about the progression of intelligence but in the extreme, Tzeentch is the embodiment of power and the desire to do anything to achieve that power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadaeux Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I disagree with the above. Tzeentch isn't evil. He is, in a sense, worse. He is Chaotic Neutral. He plans, plots and schemes because its what he does, it is literally what Tzeentch IS. Tzeentch literally doesn't care if Chaos, Imperium, Tau, Tyranid or Necrons etc are effected by his plans as its not the completion of his schemes that matters but the fact he schemes. Everything else is a bystander. And he will always remain one of the strongest gods. An Imperial Merchant planning a hostile takeover of a rivals business is in a way feeding Tzeentch. A Guard Regiment plotting to outflank their enemy and catch them in suprise and a crossfire is in a way feeding Tzeentch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Humongous Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Tzeentch is like Heath Ledger's Joker. He's such a master schemer that he makes other schemers part of his scheme, and his own schemes look like chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schultzhoffen Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Yes. He is Evil. It seems to be fairly safe to take this view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Tzeentch can't be considered evil since Chaos is a purely elemental force. it is neither good nor evil and is fully primordial. so no, Tzeentch isn't evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uprising Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 From want i read at lexicanum, i truly think Tzeentch isn`t evil. Tzeentch is pure ambition, divorced from all other emotions and concepts that would otherwise get in the way of achieving a goal. While hope is not evil, Tzeentch is pure hope (or ambition) without conscience or compassion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 And he will always remain one of the strongest gods. An Imperial Merchant planning a hostile takeover of a rivals business is in a way feeding Tzeentch. A Guard Regiment plotting to outflank their enemy and catch them in suprise and a crossfire is in a way feeding Tzeentch. Khorne is "currently" the most powerful, but even he is persuaded by Tzeentch to do HIS bidding! It's quite common for Tzeentch to say "Hey Khorne, that guy over there called your mom a Dark Angel"... "GAHH!!! Blood For the Blood God!! DFCJIOSDFKJ!!!" He ultimately has at least 80+% of the chaos gods twiddling on his fingers. (Note the dark angels comment wasn't meant to be bashing the Dark Angel community, as a matter of fact Khorne's mother was loving and caring just like any other, she just had a "bad" child.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 hahaha i really loled at that Wolf89 ;) but it is true Tzeentch does a lot of meddling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nephilim Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Khorne is "currently" the most powerful... Wrong. Slaanesh is currently ranked as the most powerful, but also the youngest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aleksandur Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 it's all in the eye of the beholder... some see change as a bad thing, some realize that it is necessary and good... I don't really think that any of the chaos god are inherently evil, just their followers interpretations of them are, or just taken to the extreme. death and decay enrich the soil and give us new life is it decadence, or is it just art and love taken too far? martial pride is still pride in your work (a bit flimsy, I know, but khorne is the tricky one) isn't power and knowledge how we overcome our greatest struggles? the imperium could stand a bit of it, since they're using the same military technology that they were ten thousand years before. what happens to a culture that doesn't change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Delias Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 well... We as those that follow chaos do not see it as evil, but as a needed change to stagnation. In truth most of the imperium would likely want change if you mulled it over for awhile. Like you said, nothing has changed in 10,000 years. Power corrupts, probably more so than even the Warp's influence. I would almost venture to say that the imperium is evil unto itself. Not the lesser peoples that inhabit the planets or man the armies, but the higher echelons, those that reside in the endless maze of citadels on Terra. Yup... I'm Chaos... through and through, least in the battle over the imperium of mankind. Otherwise I'm xenos regardless... so it's all speculative for me all in all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Khorne is "currently" the most powerful... Wrong. Slaanesh is currently ranked as the most powerful, but also the youngest. no, slaanesh was never ever mentioned as the strongest Chaos God. Khorne however was mentioned several times as the strongest Chaos God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadaeux Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Khorne is "currently" the most powerful... Wrong. Slaanesh is currently ranked as the most powerful, but also the youngest. Wrong. ALL the Codexes point out Slaanesh is the weakest of the Chaos Gods. Where the hell did you get the impression s/he was strongest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uprising Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Khorne is "currently" the most powerful... Wrong. Slaanesh is currently ranked as the most powerful, but also the youngest. I would like to point out that Khorne is the strongest because in 40k universe there always war. But your somewhat right because in our real world, Slaanesh would be the most powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Khorne is "currently" the most powerful... Wrong. Slaanesh is currently ranked as the most powerful, but also the youngest. Everyone seems to have beat me to saying this, but I (being a follower of Khorne myself can't pass up a chance to correct a Slaanesh worshiper :wacko: ). That Khorne IS indeed the strongest as mentioned multiple times that he's the strongest, oldest, and... not.. too.. bright... Keeping on the topic however, as for those who say it's in the eye of the beholder and such... well... consider that these DAEMONS from which the Chaos Gods themselves manifest and put forth on the material world to wreak havoc and do his bidding isn't evil? Consider Wars in the past, including WWII, do you consider the invasion of Poland, France, Norway, etc. as being nothing of evil intent but purely because they wanted death and decay so the world can grow some trees? I'm just quite confused on how you guys are trying to justify the Chaos Gods as not being evil. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 More importantly, chaos was invented by GW as an evil force, therefore Tzeentch is evil, problem solved (until someone who likes to argue the point tries to disagree). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 More importantly, chaos was invented by GW as an evil force, therefore Tzeentch is evil, problem solved (until someone who likes to argue the point tries to disagree). GW= evil, tells us Tzeentch= evil therefore Tzeentch= good :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aleksandur Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Keeping on the topic however, as for those who say it's in the eye of the beholder and such... well... consider that these DAEMONS from which the Chaos Gods themselves manifest and put forth on the material world to wreak havoc and do his bidding isn't evil? Consider Wars in the past, including WWII, do you consider the invasion of Poland, France, Norway, etc. as being nothing of evil intent but purely because they wanted death and decay so the world can grow some trees? I'm just quite confused on how you guys are trying to justify the Chaos Gods as not being evil. :huh: you're not keeping on topic here, and now I have to go even further off topic... who was good and evil in the hundred years war? the american civil war? the seven years war? the football war? it's rarely as simple as pure black and white... and tzeentch is many shades of grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 it's rarely as simple as pure black and white... and tzeentch is many shades of grey. Yes, but they are very dark shades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Bob Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Neither Tzeentch, Khorne, Nurgle, or Slaanesh are evil. It's all a matter of perspective. Some might see what the Gods do as evil, but in reality, are they really? Change, War, Death, Pleasure; these are all emotions and inevitabilities, without which, the galaxy would likely fall into an eternity of confusion. Whether or not the Chaos Gods do what they do out of evil purposes is completely debatable. It is highly likely that without something otherworldly controlling the dark feelings and deeds of humanity, that there would in fact be no humanity. The Chaos Gods can be evil, or they can be most Good-hearted beings in the galaxy; it's just perspective. For example; some people think that it is completely necessary to use animals for sustenence, where as some people (PETA and other Animal Rights Activists) find the consumption of animals as evil and cruel. I.E. Chaos Gods = Meat consumers Everyone against them = PETA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.(Space)Marine Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Okay, odd as it is, I don't actually find Tzeentch as a Dark God. Chaotic most definitly, but not evil. My reasoning for this is the fact that Tzeentch is the imbodiment of the progression of intelligence. Every thought, every grain of reasoning all flows into one unknowable goal, that as long as intelligent expirementation continues, shall never cease to be unattainable. Tzeentch exists as long as new ideas can be formed, and so must continue to have mortals think. This does not make him evil in my opinion. What all is your thoughts(heh, the irony)?? Evil is merely a point of view ;) No I don't think Tzeentch is evil. He simply wants the mortals of the galaxy to continue to change, plot, think, and do anything else that will continue his existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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