Obscura Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I'm going to be honest, I'm an Ork player through and through ( know most of the Ork fluff without really pausing to think about it ). I easily own about 5k points worth of Death Skulls scattered in my hobby room ( 3.5k usually sees the light of day at my LGS Apoc games that happen three to four times a month. Though I can say that this is merely the culmination of ten years of sociopathic Orkish conversions and sleepless nights spent in the Army) Awhile ago I decided to deviate from the Green Tide and took up a 1000 point Sisters of Battle army a couple months ago ( Found a majority of it in my garage, then expanded to 1000 after a few trades/commission work. I'd go higher but SoB are stupid expensive ) , then like many of us. . . I snagged another army, Legion of the Damned, about 2500 points worth. My LGS is having an army fluff competition and me being a rather competitive sort decided to try this out for the "fun" of it ( Theres also twenty pints of beer involved as the final prize, what can I say. . . I'm an alcoholic with a gaming problem. ) I'm aiming for a combined force between my SoB and LotD, because I doubt Orks would really make sense between the two. Though the wild card for me would be the somewhat zealous/fanatical/KILL IT WITH FIRE nature that the SoB embrace against anything thats against their given teaching ( which basically means everyone ). Then you've got the LotD, who in context jump out of nowhere, frag whatever walks and talks then disappears without a trace. The two of them probably wouldn't get along, SoB would try to frag the LotD and the LotD would be like ". . ." *disappear* The above coupled with the fact that I'm a complete fluff noob between the two forces that I've chosen makes for a very interesting fluff headache on my part. The Witch hunters codex doesn't provide enough information to my liking and all info I do find seems to contradict everything else *stabs internets* , coupled with the fact that thats pretty much what makes finding information about the LotD damn near impossible as that to contradicts everything. . . stupid Imperial censorship, propaganda and GW's inability to get facts straight. . . *makes more inane comments, some of them involve cheesecake* Would the two forces work together, fluff wise and how would it work out? Or am I really trying to hard for twenty pints of free beer of my choice? This was so much easier with my Orks too! Damn me for trying something new. . . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/156767-sisters-of-battle-and-legion-of-the-damned/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissia Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 If the Sisters see Space Marines attacking their enemies, they are probably going to assume that those Space Marinesa re loyalist unless they have information that proves otherwise. Even if they arrive on the battlefield via teleportation. I know people disagree with me and thinks the Sistersa re complete suicidal idiots, but I hold the opinion that the Sisters are, in fact, smart, and very capable of thinking through a situation with a military mindset. Their objectives would be handed to them by their faith-- their in-battle decisions would be handed to them by their military side. Otherwise they'd suck in combat anyway-- but they don't suck. They're an elite force, the elite of the elite as far as humans are concerned. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/156767-sisters-of-battle-and-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-1832820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toogeloo Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 If the Sisters see Space Marines attacking their enemies, they are probably going to assume that those Space Marinesa re loyalist unless they have information that proves otherwise. Even if they arrive on the battlefield via teleportation. Aid Unlooked For would probably have it working the other way around. The Legion would see the Sisters having a hard fought battle and teleport in to assist. This is how I would see it fluffily anyways. However, to build the list, you need to make the Space Marines the Parent List which would mean that by list building, its actually the Sisters helping the Legion. Also, you have to take into consideration that you are fielding at least one SM HQ and 2 TR choices which means they also are not really Legion (unless you model them that way and just "pretend" :P) before you can even consider fielding anything Sister related. All in all, I dont see why it wouldn't work, just make a creative story and paint all the SM forces as Legion and write in the Sisters any way you see fit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/156767-sisters-of-battle-and-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-1832844 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 If the Sisters see Space Marines attacking their enemies, they are probably going to assume that those Space Marinesa re loyalist unless they have information that proves otherwise. Even if they arrive on the battlefield via teleportation. The LotD doesn't teleport or use drop pods, they simply appear out of thin air, vehicles and all. Add to that the general appearance of the LotD "Black armour adorned with symbols of death, skeleton writhin in the flames of purgatory being a dominant theme. Eyewitnesses report the visible areas of the Space Marines' flesh are in a state of decay, lending the legionnaires a horrific, charnel aspect." So I think that the SoB would definitly try to purge them if they'd see any exposed flesh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/156767-sisters-of-battle-and-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-1832935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kettu Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I, personally, think that the entire 'Appear outa thin air' part is just how Eye witnesses perceive it after already being stuck in an unwinable situation and don't really have time to think, 'Hmm, was that a Teleport beam I just saw?'. And the Sisters have Black armour in a few orders, Imperial Guard have black armoured companies, BLACK TEMPLAR... Do I have to continue? Fire? Come on; make this a challenge at least. Bones? Well, the Sisters have a mini that is holding a box with bones in it. They have a wargear option for tanks that is adorning it with bones of the faithful. Decaying skin, finally, a challenge. Well, they wear fully enclosed amour so chances are the girls won't see much in the way of decayed skin anyway. And do remember, by GW's own cannon, the sisters have, though rarely, been helped by the ghosts of long dead saints and fellow sisters in the heat of battle. (If they are real ghosts of just exceptional cases of faith is not disclosed) I don't see why Girls and (dead)boys can't play nice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/156767-sisters-of-battle-and-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-1832992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmouredWing Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Here's my view on it. WH are a very suspicious, paranoid bunch of people and this is because their duty is to root out and eliminate any potential threat to humanity that exists within the imperium. Now with this level of paranoia in mind and the fact that WH's/sisters are prepared to fight SM chapters if it is discovered that their geneseed has become corrupted or if they display unusual tendencies I'd say the LotD is out of luck if they were to expect a warm (apart from heavy flamer warm!) welcome from an adeptus sororitas or ordo hereticus force. The additional factor of their reputation would also go a long way to making them a viable target for inquisitorial forces, whether the reason be due to elimination or capture for examination. Thats just my take... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/156767-sisters-of-battle-and-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-1833116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tauren Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Again this depends. If you are running sisters, when the sisters are in trouble it is their faith that leads them to devastating wins and loses for the enemy. They either win or lose and cause tremendous damage. It is not crazy that in the final hour they would find the emperor's holy angels assisting them on the field, what appear to be the ghosts of them. Remember that most who have seen the Legion of the Damned have said that they were wreathed in ethereal flames. Sisters being exceptionally "Flamey" in nature would lend themselves to seeing these marines as the Emperor's fiery wrath visited upon his enemies in their time of need. Even most inquisitors will not question a "living" space marine without exact proof of taint... I doubt that on the field of battle an inquisitor would question any aid in a losing battle. Because in any army list that involves an ally, assuming that the ally "showed up" would mean that the parent army (the sisters in this case) were out numbered and outgunned. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/156767-sisters-of-battle-and-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-1833126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodwynDi Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Also, do not indiscriminately mix WH and SoB. While SoB are generally considered a WH force, they are not exclusively so. SoB are the military arm of the ecclessiarchy, and also work for the Inquisition. And, as Melissia said, they are Strong of Faith, not stupid. Even being a fanatic would not preclude military decision making (MacArthur anyone?). Above all the SoB are servants of The Emperor, the Faithful need not fear their wrath. They also have no ships, so are generally going to be familiar with whatever other friendly units are working in that sector. Also, Vox systems? It is not impossible for one group or the other to radio over and say "Hey, who are you, and whats up?" And if it is an Inquisitor leading the force, fluff by default is satisfied, as inquisitors may requisition just about anything with at least some chance of success. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/156767-sisters-of-battle-and-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-1833261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Even being a fanatic would not preclude military decision making (MacArthur anyone?). Well . . . Zealots. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/156767-sisters-of-battle-and-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-1833375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obscura Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 Awesome responses everyone, appreciate it! Making everything on my end a tad easier, I just have to get past my limitations of "Let's krump some oomies!", "Save the teef!" and trying to add blue paint since its lucky. I figured out that the parent list would have to be the LotD Space Marines with Sisters of Battle as allies. I think I'm going to go with two SoB groups as I want the formulating fluff to show that they're on a small fringe world spreading the faith while protecting the citizens from themselves and whatever else may show up to claim up that particular world. I'm modeling a full Legion of the Damned army, filling out the Elites section with three ten man squad/Serg armed with Power Fist LotD ( a tad expensive but I'm aiming for fluffiness, all together its almost a 1000 points for three squads ) , Jump pack Vanguard for their Heroic Intervention, three tactical squads with Rhinos, Chaplain and/or a converted Pedro Kantor ( +1 attack to all friendly models plus Stubborn to Tact squads is just sexy ). All in all it keeps their numbers small as fluff wise ( as to what all my possible sources have noted, this is one of the few things they agree upon ) the LotD are fewer then a hundred all together with limited use of vehicles. The only exposed parts on my LotD are so far on two of my Sergeants attached to the tact squads, I may just pop off their heads and replace them with helmets. So that thankfully kind of solves the pallid decomposing flesh issue. The Sisters of Battle will be two squads strong (decked out with flamey death) coupled with a Living Saint ( Saint Celestine conversion modeled with a spear, shield and wings ) , though I'm still trying to figure out why I'd have a living saint with two groups of SoB on a fringe world. . . I may/probably will change that if I can't figure out a plausible way to explain it. ( I really just want to use the model, hehe ) Though I could switch in a Witch hunter with Retinue. In so far, I'd like to say that the Sisters are the main force ( even though they're allies on paper ) while the Legion are dropping in to lend some assistance. I've got the mechanics of the list settled down, it's just figuring out the fluff thats taking me forever and a day to situate. I do agree that the sisters are a tad suspicious of those around them and have a tendency to use fire to cleanse the bodies/souls of the unclean, they definitely do have a militaristic aspect to them as they need it to survive and overcome their foes. Though at the same time I do appreciate the suicidal tendencies that the sisters embrace as sometimes in battle the only thing you can do is keep on firing, yelling and calling in a danger close bombardment on your position (in this case it'll be the Legion of the Damned popping out of no where). If I go with the Witch Hunter, they in turn would try to "secure" one of the Legionnaires as the SM codex has a brief passage saying that Witch Hunters/Inquisitors have been trying to question one of them for forever and a day. Could I just explain that as a type of cat and mouse game between the two? Normally I'd just push it off and be like "Whatever, it works, doesn't it?" though the competition requires plausible fluff and one of the judges is what a majority of us lovingly call a "Fluff Nazi", which isn't a bad thing, it just makes things a tad more difficult/interesting. Hopefully the above makes sense, kinda rushing a response while at work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/156767-sisters-of-battle-and-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-1833441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Zealots make all kinds of military decision making... most of it bad :cuss Charging headlong into your opponent is a military maneuver.. typically designed to overwhelm someone with sheer numbers. You ever seen a proper true to fluff Imperial Guard charge? Same thing. Now I also believe the Sisters aren't stupid and are capable of thought.. I see them closer to fanatical knightly orders of the Crusades in terms of combining faith and military prowess.. why does that sound familiar.. oh yeah, Space Marines are the same way :D They just get genetic engineering and have a different view of the nature of the Emperor. Ahem.. anyway.. remember that the Fluff of an Army, and how you have to manipulate the rules to make the game mechanics of a valid armylist, are not the same thing! There have been examples of say, a Genestealer cult that uses the army roster and doctrine system of the Imperial Guard. Yup, that's right, a Genestealer cult using Imperial Guard rules. It makes it a valid army, with cool fluff and models. Your army fluff is very really the Sisters being assisted by the LotD... but game mechanics say you can't really make a valid armylist that way. So instead, make your LotD army, ally in Sisters to make it tabletop legal. Then just explain the fluff however you want. In my army, I have an Inquisitor Lady with various factions of the Imperium assisting her. Fluffwise she's always the one really "in charge" though she often lets the various other people make tactical command decisions. Army list wise.. I've fielded a Witch Hunters army, an Imperial Guard army.. I've been tempted to field technically a Daemon Hunters army just to get teleport homers (with my single unit of Grey Knight Terminators being promoted to a legal character and retinue), and I'm working on the Space Marine army. I ally in the Inquisitor and all of a sudden my army fluff of her commanding essentially a small coalition of forces is fit.. no matter what technical label is on the army. The rules is the rules, and we have to play by them. We have to make sure the army is valid and fits the rules. Fluff though.. counts as is a wonderful thing, and our stories are our own. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/156767-sisters-of-battle-and-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-1833458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I, personally, think that the entire 'Appear outa thin air' part is just how Eye witnesses perceive it after already being stuck in an unwinable situation and don't really have time to think, 'Hmm, was that a Teleport beam I just saw?'. Tanks don't teleport. And I think that most space marines, inquisitors and the like would know the differance between teleporting onto the battlefield, or simply appearing from nowhere. Their original rules from WD 279 also specifically mention that: They always deep strike, before the game begins but after the other player(s) have set up. That they may not deep stike into their opponent's deployment zone, but may scatter into it. That their vehicles also deploy that way. That in case of reserves/deep strike scenario special rules, they arrive using the deep strike rules and not from a table edge. That all their units, including vehicles, receive a 6+ invulnerable save "due to their insubstantial nature". And that they appear as "ghostly apparitions". I doubt that on the field of battle an inquisitor would question any aid in a losing battle. They are keen on finding out how to got those mysterious and deadly abilities though. It is not impossible for one group or the other to radio over and say "Hey, who are you, and whats up?" And then there was silence. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/156767-sisters-of-battle-and-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-1833501 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 It is not impossible for one group or the other to radio over and say "Hey, who are you, and whats up?" And then there was silence. Indeed. I hear the Legion of the Damned are exceedingly good at prank calls. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/156767-sisters-of-battle-and-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-1833574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodwynDi Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I could totally see the conversation going like this as well. Inq: Who is your commander how/why are you here? LotD: Oh, we were just chilling with the Emperor when it looked like you guys could use some help. Ing: . . . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/156767-sisters-of-battle-and-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-1833692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelbrechtBT Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 My thought is that the sisters speritual nature would win out. I mean Flameing death dealing Astartes. They must be a manafestation of the Emps will here to strike down the enimies of the Sisters. Just one way you could explain it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/156767-sisters-of-battle-and-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-1833821 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelbrechtBT Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 My thought is that the sisters speritual nature would win out. I mean Flameing death dealing Astartes. They must be a manafestation of the Emps will here to strike down the enimies of the Sisters. Just one way you could explain it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/156767-sisters-of-battle-and-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-1833823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyng72 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Their original rules from WD 279 also specifically mention that:They always deep strike, before the game begins but after the other player(s) have set up. That they may not deep stike into their opponent's deployment zone, but may scatter into it. They now are held in reserve and come in via deepstrike anywhere they need to and not deployed at the beginning of the game. That in case of reserves/deep strike scenario special rules, they arrive using the deep strike rules and not from a table edge. Still the same That all their units, including vehicles, receive a 6+ invulnerable save "due to their insubstantial nature".And that they appear as "ghostly apparitions". In the current codex thier save is 3+ invul due the Unyielding Spectres special rule Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/156767-sisters-of-battle-and-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-1834057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Do keep in mind that the WD article is for an entire *army* of them, tactical squads, assault squads, devastators, etc. Giving every unit in an army a 3++ save is a bit over the top in most cases. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/156767-sisters-of-battle-and-legion-of-the-damned/#findComment-1834765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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