How many viable list builds do we have left?

[Battle-Brother Wags]

I took a brief break from playing my Space Wolves recently to have a game or so with my eldar and it made me re-realize just how flexible Eldar are. You can make a TON of different style armies with them, and it finally brought to the forefront of my attention a frustration I've been having with my Space Wolves and with marines in general. It really seems that the number of viable lists (overall list strategies) is quite small.

 

I know I'm not a master tactician/strategist, but these are the only lists I can see working:

 

- Drop Pod list

- Mechanized list

 

I don't see a foot slogger force working unless you plan on doing 60 Blood Claw spam and quite frankly I'm not willing to go there, not least of all because I don't have that many running leg miniatures, heh.

 

Drop Pods are fun, but not for every game. Talk about one-dimensional. If you get good drops and a good round of shooting, you'll probably win. If you don't, you'll probably lose. Very uninteresting after a few games.

 

So that leaves Mechanized armies . . . and just how much variance can you really have in a mechanized marine force? Lots of Rhinos, a Vindi or two, maybe throw in an LRC . . . I dunno.

 

I guess this is a frustration that has been hampering my excitement for the game lately and I'd love to have my eyes opened or re-opened to some different options. Perhaps there is even something unique within the mechanized 'genre' that I'm not seeing. Don't get me wrong, I'm a wolf through and through, and maybe it is the nearness of a new codex that is leading me to be dissatisfied with our current choices. Again, I dunno, but maybe some of my good Wolf-Brothers will come to my aid.

[Grey Mage]

I run Footslooger with Tank support fairly frequently. In fact, the most transports Ive had in a list for two months has been 1 drop pod or razorback, and a landraider.... in up to 1750pts. My record for the last two months is something like 7 out of 9.

 

Play what you want, and you can find a way to make it work. If anyone can do it, Grey Hunters can.

 

The main thing with a footslogger force is you have to think a turn ahead of time to make sure your units are where you need them. You have to balance the need of hunting down hidden enemies with mutual support. To this end yeah, I take a landspeeder, a dread, a whirlwind, and a predator in 1500 points pretty regularly. I need the firepower that a tank can bring to the field.... and the landspeeder gives me half the mobility I need, the other half is all in the run mechanic.

 

But Oh Noes! My froces will be shots ats! Yeah, they will. Thats what happens in a fight. Theyre space marines... theyre tough, they have a great armor save, and I exploit the mixed armor rules to an extent. I also use the hell out of the new cover rules.... wich is really what they are there for.

 

Really what I think it is... I played footslogging eldar for a decade. Four editions now. Well thing is Grey Hunters can do anything if equiped right. Dire Avengers? Fire Dragons? Scorpions? they just cant. They can give it a go, and with a bit of gear on the seargent they can be maximized in their versatility... but you have to send your strengths were theyll do the most good. Marines arent really that different. I have a pack with 2 Power Weapons and a Meltagun? Then I should be sending it against tough units, or power armor in a transport. Or theyre good close support for a Fire Base squad of bolters and plasma.... etc.

 

There is no "Golden List". Marines especially are adaptable. Ive seen space wolves who had no particularly focused close combat ability... thats right, a Space Wolf Gunline. Heavy on the dreadnaughts, through in some predators and WGBL's. It was a pretty cool list too. My point being that if you take into account what your enemy can do on a 4' square board.... there are only so many options in a wargame like ours.

 

Can you deal with tanks?

Can you deal with hordes?

Can you find the hidden artillery?

Can you mop up the assault?

Can you start the assault? *forget this tau*

Can you get where you need to go?

Can you survive?

 

Take your list.... explain to yourself every way in wich you can do each of these. For instance with the first.... Meltaguns, lascannons, missilelaunchers, dreads in close combat, powerfists, that WGPL's chainfist, bolters on rear armor, scouts, that tank hunting landspeeder.... Then go to the next one..... and the next. Try to make each of your units capable of dealing with all of these as possible.

 

In 1500 points I feel I can afford perhaps one unit that cant deal with 5/7 of these. Tanks 4/5 as I dont expect them to properly iniate assaults :cuss.

 

Heres a 1500pt list I took against orks and cleaned house with week before this last:

 

WGBL+ Retinue in TDA. 3 Assault cannons, two fist style weapons, frostblade, two powerstyleweapons, combimelta.

Vendread-assaultcannon+EA

2x10 Grey Hunters- Bolters+Plasma+fist.

1x10 Grey Hunters- BP, 2xPowerweapon, melta, in a rhino.

Whirlwind.

Predator-TLLC, Heavybolters, EA.

Landspeeder-MM

2x Attackbikes.

 

I took that same list against footslogging Grey Knights with IG support and rhinoborne Imperial Fists that day. Grey Knights were tabled by long range firepower, the imperial fists didnt even make it on my gaming record... the kids to new, been playing about four months. Three wins, from a footslogging list in day. I cant see how your saying footslogging is dead.

[Wolf89]

With the run rule and other benefits, the foot slogger is still viable. Look at things like 13th company... they've been doing it for years now and were highly competitive.

 

Note that the best thing I've found in foot sloggers is to take bikes for sure (not AB, just regular bikers), as tangling up potential nasty units early on is a must before they get off lots of dakka on your sloggers. AB's are still useful, and likely used as well, but a nice big BC bike squad is cheap and come with lots of bolter shots and a nice charge the next turn.

 

Also really try to work on your specialized weaponry options... the more AP weaponry you can put on one guy the better, instead of having to spread it out the whole squad because they're all the same.

 

Blood claw units that are 10-15 obviously make the slogger list over the common Grey hunters, at least one big unit of blood claws for cover and screening should be used.

 

Otherwise I've done the best with my mechanized.

[WG Vrox]

Since we have the best marine scouts in the game I have been playing with the idea of running a scout heavy list using LS storms and a fast AB pack to back them up. 2 packs of Long Fangs joined by a WGBL in TDA / CML 4 wolves. 3 packs of troops in 1 in Rhino 1 in DP 1 in RB. Ven Dred HQ with ML and LC.

 

Not sure how it would perform, but your welcome to give it a try if your looking to run something different.

 

3 scout packs of 1 of 6 2 of 5 in LS storms.

1 pack of 3 AB 2 MM 1 HB

5 LF 2 LC 2 ML

5 LF 2 PC 2 HB

3 GH packs 10+1 in DP, 10 in Rhino 6 in RB

 

WG Vrox

[hendrik]

you could always do weir unexpected things, such as a 3*3 landspeeder list etc:)

[Wolf89]

Since we have the best marine scouts in the game I have been playing with the idea of running a scout heavy list using LS storms and a fast AB pack to back them up. 2 packs of Long Fangs joined by a WGBL in TDA / CML 4 wolves. 3 packs of troops in 1 in Rhino 1 in DP 1 in RB. Ven Dred HQ with ML and LC.

 

How could I forget that, of course wolf scouts are really helpful for the foot slogger list, OBEL is uncanny at keeping your opponent from 'turtle-ing' in the back and another squad or two in a LS storm doesn't leave many other places for them to go but up into the maw. ;)

[Battle-Brother Wags]

Well, I've decided to see if a footslogger list has viability after all. Here is the link, http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=157060 , anyone who is willing, please take a look at it and let me know what you think. No vehicles at all, I just couldn't fit them in without making the model count suffer considerably. And I figure with footslogging, model count will be important.

 

Please take a gander and tell me if I'm even barking up the right tree . . .

 

*edit* BTW, what are the chances that WGBLs or their equivalents will still be able to take heavy weapons in the new codex? Pretty nill, I'd think . . .