Sacred Incense Question

[CitadelArmyGuy]

When Daemons charge a unit with Sacred Incense:

 

1. They are charging difficult terrain so become Initiative 1

2. Sacred Incense lowers their Initiative to Zero

 

OR

 

1. Sacred Incense lowers their Initiative BY 1

2. Difficult Terrain lowers it the remaining initiative points TO 1

 

 

This would make a big difference if you were, say, to have a unit of Thunderhammer Termies-- the first interpretation would let them hammer Daemons before they even attack

 

(which, by the way Does Initiative Zero even exist? And if it does, do models at Initiative Zero even get to attack? It doesn't specifically say in the section on "Zero Level Characteristics", but it does mention units with WS Zero are auto-hit in CC, etc.) P. 7 BBB

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Option B is the one you are looking for, Initiative 0 doesn't exist. I even think it says somewhere is the Rulebook that Zero-level characteristics can only happen if a model starts with <characteristic> Zero. I don't think you can reduce characteristics below 1.

 

I assume you are talking about Grey Knights and the Rites of Exorcism rule which makes charging Daemons count "as if they were moving into difficult ground".

 

So, the Sacred Incense gives -1 Initiative to the Daemons. Rites of Exorcism reduces their Initiative to 1 due to charging through Difficult Terrain. Regardless of which of these two steps comes first, the Daemons' Initiative can never be reduced below 1.

 

As a side note, I believe Sacred Incense was primarily included to work on all Chaos models, not just Daemons, since most of the GK special rules don't work on Chaos Marines and the like.

[kharn_the_betrayer]

As a side note, I believe Sacred Incense was primarily included to work on all Chaos models, not just Daemons, since most of the GK special rules don't work on Chaos Marines and the like.

 

 

I think that when the DH codex gets redone we will see some of the rules to work against Chaos Marines too not just daemons. Even though infestation is a problem when the old Chaos book was there you had the daemons in with the marines and the Codex worked both ways. That being said it might change to reflect they do fight all of chaos.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

Did more reading, and I think you are right GMTyrak- but for the wrong reasons. I would contest that Initiative Zero does in fact exist, I can nowhere find

somewhere is the Rulebook that Zero-level characteristics can only happen if a model starts with <characteristic> Zero

 

For the same reason for example, a Soulgrinder can be made into WS0 by the combined use of a Grimoire and Dante's Death Mask (and therefore is auto-hit in CC and cannot even make to-hit rolls that require WS- there's no line with WS0 even on the chart)

 

Perhaps you are thinking of the Level 10 cap-- but I can find no "bottom" cap parameter anywhere.

 

 

I think the reason you ARE correct is because of P.36 BBB "all models have their Initiative value lowered to 1, regardless of other modifiers." Initially I thought they were only referring to bonuses ala Furious Charge, but now I realize that it includes penalties too.

[number6]

Just to be clear, sacred incense works against all "Chaos models", not just daemons. It's right there in black and white in the armoury rules. :tu:

[Onisuzume]

For the same reason for example, a Soulgrinder can be made into WS0 by the combined use of a Grimoire and Dante's Death Mask (and therefore is auto-hit in CC and cannot even make to-hit rolls that require WS- there's no line with WS0 even on the chart)

Old rulebooks (might be just fantasy), used to state that models with WS0 cannot attack...

[Inquisitor Fox]

There's also the point that this question only affects the turn of combat in which the demons charge the GK's... on subsequent turns the Incense should still be in effect, so it's not a wasted piece of wargear by any means.