How do I win apocalypse without apocalypse units

[lucifer light bearer]

I just entered a league campaign that uses apocalypse rules for 2 of the six games. I’ve never played apocalypse before and don’t own and can’t afford to buy any apocalypse units. Help me prepare for the game what might I see and how do I deal with it.

 

I'm using codex marines

 

Thanks.

[Mal]

Firstly, welcome to B&C...

 

As to your question... what can you expect to see? well do you know what forces you'll be facing and what allies they may be taking as this will help narrow the options down...

 

Apoc has NO FOC chart, so if they can take any army, they can take anything from any army in any numbers they like (except unique characters who you can still only have 1 of each, just lots and lots of different ones).

[lucifer light bearer]

this is a little strange in that the game caps out at 3000pts but you can take super heavy, fliers, and apocalypse stuff

[rockdeity]

is it just 1v1 or team games? If so that is weird as that's usually the bare minimum cost entry for apoc games. If that's the case, I recommend trying to find formations that fit your army (some easy ones are the drop pod formation or Ancients Assault Force) to get you some extra hax in there. Start looking the strategic assets over and try to figure out if you can use any of those efficiently. Some of them may surprise you... a friend used one on me once that totally ruined my plan... I forget what it's called but on a 1-3 roll or so he gets to place my reserves! I had like half my army reserved and it hosed me. Apoc games are usually played with 6 objectives so that's one thing to consider. If you can do anything to keep your killing efficiency whilst maintaining scoring (like using pedro and sternguard) or ways to minmax a scoring game, then those same meta-game tactics from normal games will carry over. I think it's kind of hard to really prepare for the first time you see a real apoc game, where people are popping out baneblades, titans, named greater daemons, and ridiculous formatiosn with special rules all over the place. Definitely pick up the apocolypse books if you haven't already and the FW imperial armor are dope as well.

[lucifer light bearer]

it depends on what happens in the rest of the campaign as to if it's 1vs 1 or team

[minigun762]

I just entered a league campaign that uses apocalypse rules for 2 of the six games. I’ve never played apocalypse before and don’t own and can’t afford to buy any apocalypse units. Help me prepare for the game what might I see and how do I deal with it.

 

You don't have to buy anything special to play in an Apocalypse game. The main changes (as some have already said) is that there is no FOC so you aren't restricted by what you have to take, also the addition of the Strategems gives you alot of flexibility and allow for basic armies to be brought up to the appropriate power level. The last main thing is super heavy vehicles and gargantuan creatures which have new and fancy rules.

 

1) do you know who you'll be fighting against and what they'll be bringing?

2) what do you have access to?

3) do you have the apocalypse or reload book?

4) are you interested in going balls to the wall competitive or just standing a chance against their Titans?

[lucifer light bearer]

1) I'll mostly be playing against chaos and or orks. I have no idea what they'll bring but I know they have huge collections so assume it could be anything.

 

2) I've got about 40 tac marines,

10 range and 5 th/ss termies

1 land raider

1 vindicator

1 predator (haven't built it yet)

1 venerable dred

6 assault marines

8 stern guard all with combi 3 melta 5 plasma

2 drop pods

lots of IC's But imortant note my chapter master has wings(jump pack) so he's kinda stuck with the assault squad

 

3) I don't have the Apocalypse books and can't really buy them ass I just spent my warhammer budget on the predator.

 

4) I'm not hyper competitive but I would like to win. At the end of the game win or lose I'd just like to be able to say my chapter master

won some glory for himself.

[Castus Xanthis]

Go here to get all your strategic assets in shortened form. As for tactics this is probably a good place to start.

[lucifer light bearer]

I've already seen those things I was looking for first hand advice on how to deal with fliers and super heavy stuff?

[Castus Xanthis]

Flyers are rare so don't worry about them. For Superheavies and Flyers, Lascannons are the key. Use your LR, Pred and Vindicator to work on those Superheavies. Your Dread and TH Terminators also work. Assault Marines with meltabombs and those combi-weapons are immensely useful if you can get within range.

[Warp Angel]

You need to ask some questions:

 

1) What counts as scoring for objectives. In Reload they say that you may want to consider keeping the same kind of scoring that you have in 5th, but the original Apoc rules have every unit scoring. It was a bone of contetion in a local Apoc tourney that I played in. If only Troops/5th ed Scoring units can score, you can still be over the top with: Counts As Belial and Deathwing troops, Counts As Blood Angel Assault Squad, Counts As Pedro Kantor and Sternguard. There's no reason you can't count regular Marines as Sternguard.

 

2) What the points for the Apocalypse game are... It'll influence what your opponents can and can't bring.

 

Then some generic observations:

 

1) Heavy weapons should be focused on anti-tank and not anti-horde.

2) The close starting positions means you need to be ready for hand to hand.

3) Use Reserves to your advantage. Up to half of them come in second turn, the other half on third.

4) Pick the _right_ strategem for the enemy. Careful Planning lets all your reserves come in a turn early. Surgical Strike inflicts a S5 AP2 hit against the side (maybe it's rear) armor of any single model unit (this includes vehicles). Scheduled Bombardment gives more firepower than Orbital Bombardment, but at the cost of flexibility.

 

You're at a disadvantage in Apocalypse against players with more cash, and may end up with situations that are near Auto Lose. I'm not sure how you'd deal with a Giant Squiggoth, any of the various Chaos superheavies (like a Brass Scorpion), or entire formations of Chaos Terminators. Despite being one of those players with a large amount of disposable income, I don't tend to field over the top armies in Apoc, even if I'm trying to win. I don't field my Hellhammer or my Baneblade against my all normal sized bug playing friend for example. But if I did decide to "pimp my army", I can do it.

 

The 3000 point army with Shrike, Belial, GK Grand Master, 5 mixed Deathwing troops, 5 GK terminators, 3 Man Ravenwing Bike Squad, 3 Dread, 2 Blood Angels Assault Marine (with two "free" Death Company) was a bit on the mad side. Fleeting Scoring Assault Marines and Terminators...

 

The other 3000 point army was a bit more amusing. Master of the Ravenwing on Speeder, Land Raider, 2x Land Raider Crusader, Hellhammer, Baneblade, 2x Dreadnaught, and Dakka Predator list (with the only scoring unit being a Naked 3 man Ravenwing bike squad). If I hadn't faced 2 Eldar super heavies with Strength D templates AND a Giant Squiggoth, I probably would have rolled most opponents.

 

Although I might have lost to the 3 Monolith, 1 Obelisk, 4 Carnifex, 2 Hive Tyrant with Tyrant Guard, Dark Eldar Raiders list.

 

 

If you're friends with any other Marine players, I'd see if you can borrow models to flesh things out for yourself.

[minigun762]

1) I'll mostly be playing against chaos and or orks.

2) I've got about 40 tac marines,

10 range and 5 th/ss termies

1 land raider

1 vindicator

1 predator (haven't built it yet)

1 venerable dred

6 assault marines

8 stern guard all with combi 3 melta 5 plasma

2 drop pods

lots of IC's But imortant note my chapter master has wings(jump pack) so he's kinda stuck with the assault squad

 

Hmm this might be difficult. You don't have alot ot field and you don't have alot of the really potent units. Against Chaos and Orks you can safely assume you'll be assaulted fairly quickly. However both armies also have a reasonable amount of shooting. Some things to try:

1) Drop Podding the Dread and Sternguard near an enemy superheavy will be good. I wish the 5 Plasmas were all Meltas but its still doable. Dreadnought should try to assault something the turn after he lands.

2) Probably going to have to put the TH/SS Terminators in the Land Raider. People will expect it but its the only way to get them to see combat quickly.

3) Ranged Terminators will be used mostly for knocking down enemy infantry but don't forget that they have a Power Fist. Don't bother assaulting a Titan but any Baneblade is free game.

4) With your Tacticals, I'd combat squad them. Put 5 guys and a Heavy weapon into cover and take 5 guys with a special and Power Fist Sarge and try to advance. If you have Rhinos or Razorbacks, they'd be helpful

5) The assault marines are pretty small honestly, they'll probably get shot down quickly so I'd think about holding them in reserve the first turn. Then bring them in and hope to get into HtH combat asap.

6) You mention you have lots of ICs, that might actually be helpful for you. Space Marines have a formation called "Masters of the Chapter" or something similar, basically each of the Company Captains you have give you an additional Strategem you can use, these can help level the playing field.

[lucifer light bearer]

sad but true I only have one rhino