long fang retuning to the pack

[kittenofdeath]

hello all, i used to play way back when, still using third ed rules, and my army of choice was the wolves, however money problems forced me to stop for a few years, and when i came back in to the game a while ago, i was shocked to discover the neglect that the venerable sons of russ had been subjected to, and with a heavy heart i started playing some vanilla marines (experimented with BT to little success) but recently i uncovered my old codex, complete with notes and ramblings scrawled in the margins, and ive decided to throw my wolf pelt back on and start anew.

 

so now i have the problem of translating the wolves to 5th ed, ive read a bunch of threads here, and looked at the FAQ/Eratta, but theres still a few issues im iffy on

 

does true grit apply to special wepons? would a PF bolter combo give +1 attack?

do fenrisian wolves or wolf guard bodyguards count as retinues?

to memory, the FAQ says that we have the same tanks as marines, with the exclusion of Rhino/Razorback, but the codex says we can have them for higher points, do we use the same points as in C:SM or use the ones present in our own dex?

how many land speeders can i fit in a drop pod? (why im allowed to drop pod speeders, i dont know, i doubt i ever will)

storm caller, could someone outline how it sucks? dont things strike last when chargeing through cover (same time as fists) and whatever its cast on would get a 4+ cover save

a wolf guard battle leader can take wolf guard weapons, does that mean he counts towards the 1 in every three part, or can he just take one reguardless of the number of wolf guard present?

many items in the armory canot be used due to their ommision from the current marine codex, however, they are still present in other codexs, DA and BT have some of the items we've lost, such as reductors and holy relics, is it legal to use those rules?

if i take scouts and use OBEL with a wolf guard attached, can i put them in a land speeder storm?

the venerable dred entry states that you may take upgrades from the marines codex for the points listed, but it says nothing about using their rules, does that mean we use the rules presented at the back of the book?

 

i probibly have more questions, i just cant remember them, so more may come

[Wolf89]

does true grit apply to special wepons? would a PF bolter combo give +1 attack? No

do fenrisian wolves or wolf guard bodyguards count as retinues? Both do, but Fenrisian wolves are more like a squad where you have to kill the wolves and the HQ to get kill points (unless HQ dies first then wolves run away as normal)

to memory, the FAQ says that we have the same tanks as marines, with the exclusion of Rhino/Razorback, but the codex says we can have them for higher points, do we use the same points as in C:SM or use the ones present in our own dex? This one is still debated, but it's GW's practice (GT ruling) that you do use the costs in C:SM, even the German FAQ states such.

how many land speeders can i fit in a drop pod? (why im allowed to drop pod speeders, i dont know, i doubt i ever will) Not sure if this is the beginning of a joke or what, but I'll bite... how many? ;) The answer is you're not allowed to drop pod land speeders, they may deep strike on their own however or in a squadron.

storm caller, could someone outline how it sucks? dont things strike last when chargeing through cover (same time as fists) and whatever its cast on would get a 4+ cover save You get a 5+, no matter if it's cast on a squad or a vehicle, it provides a 5+ no matter what. As per assault rules, the enemy doesn't get any modifiers from either being charged or charging themselves into a unit that has stormcaller cast on it, it no longer works the way intended sadly.

a wolf guard battle leader can take wolf guard weapons, does that mean he counts towards the 1 in every three part, or can he just take one reguardless of the number of wolf guard present? It doesn't count towards the 1-3, so going off WolfLordLars' drop pod of doom, you could have 4 assault cannons in one drop pod.

many items in the armory canot be used due to their ommision from the current marine codex, however, they are still present in other codexs, DA and BT have some of the items we've lost, such as reductors and holy relics, is it legal to use those rules? No it is not, those codexes are free standing, ours isn't, we use the new C:SM, but we get cool stuff like 3+ inv saves from storm shields in both shooting and close combat. :wacko:

if i take scouts and use OBEL with a wolf guard attached, can i put them in a land speeder storm? No you cannot, the land speeder storm doesn't have that option to OBEL, also the wolf guard is in power armour, which means he cannot ride in a "scout armour only" vehicle.

the venerable dred entry states that you may take upgrades from the marines codex for the points listed, but it says nothing about using their rules, does that mean we use the rules presented at the back of the book? Not sure what you're asking here, we use ven. dreads just like in C:SW (FAQ clearly states we don't use the ven. dread in C:SM) and we use vehicle upgrades as per C:SW for the ven. dread.

 

i probibly have more questions, i just cant remember them, so more may come

 

Bring on the questions, hopefully we'll have the answers. :lol:

[kittenofdeath]

if the drop pod rules on page four of the codex are still valid, land speeders can deploy from drop pods, as can PA or TDA troops, scouts, and dreads

 

and although it says that, the only place in the SW codex that describes the vehical upgrades is the summary page, and from what ive seen on here that thing no longer has any say

 

and thanks for them hlep

[Vassakov]

if the drop pod rules on page four of the codex are still valid, land speeders can deploy from drop pods, as can PA or TDA troops, scouts, and dreads

 

and although it says that, the only place in the SW codex that describes the vehical upgrades is the summary page, and from what ive seen on here that thing no longer has any say

 

and thanks for them hlep

 

Replace the stuff in C:SW about Drop Pods with the new rules printed in the current Space Marine Codex, it's all in there.

 

All vehicles are also taken from C:SM with the exception of Venerable Dreadnoughts and the LRE, which we have in our dex, and the upgrades for them are also in there.

[JEFF4i]

if the drop pod rules on page four of the codex are still valid, land speeders can deploy from drop pods, as can PA or TDA troops, scouts, and dreads

 

and although it says that, the only place in the SW codex that describes the vehical upgrades is the summary page, and from what ive seen on here that thing no longer has any say

 

and thanks for them hlep

You're right on everything but land speeders, no dice from drop pods anymore. Luckily you can still do TDA, Dreads, and PA. :(

 

This calls for ale!

[Vash113]

This calls for ale!

 

Everything calls for ale :D.

[kittenofdeath]

This calls for ale!

 

Everything calls for ale ;).

 

that right there? exactly why the wolves beat the smurfs every time

 

now for a few more questions

how do you get 4 assault cannons in one drop pod? 2 in the wolf guard and one for the battle leader, where does number four come from?

in the wargear list it has two costs for everything, the wolf guard cost and the IC cost, if there isnt a listed cost am i to assume that i cant give it to the wolf guard?

back to the scouts and the land speeder storm, i understand not getting a PA pack leader in there, but i would still be able to OBEL with it wouldnt i? i mean, you cant infiltrate or outflank with a lone LSS, but you drop a space marine scout squad in there and you can, wouldnt be the same with our wolf scouts and OBEL?

if i keep one fernisian wolf alive when my wolf lord or battle leader dies, does he still count as a victory point? or do they drag him off

[Lord Howland Greywolf]

I would like to point out that no one has welcomed him back yet. So welcome back,you now where the ale is kept, so get one for the rest of us.

[kittenofdeath]

I would like to point out that no one has welcomed him back yet. So welcome back,you now where the ale is kept, so get one for the rest of us.

 

thanks

 

*Taps the keg and passes the flagons*

 

now drink up, nobodys glass goes dry in my thread

[Wolf89]

now for a few more questions

how do you get 4 assault cannons in one drop pod? 2 in the wolf guard and one for the battle leader, where does number four come from? 3 from WGBG (3 TDA WGBG with assault cannon, 4 PA WGBG (up to 10 spots taken up)) then a WGBL in TDA with AC

in the wargear list it has two costs for everything, the wolf guard cost and the IC cost, if there isnt a listed cost am i to assume that i cant give it to the wolf guard? Correct, like you can't give a WG a frost axe because there isn't point costs to do so.

back to the scouts and the land speeder storm, i understand not getting a PA pack leader in there, but i would still be able to OBEL with it wouldnt i? i mean, you cant infiltrate or outflank with a lone LSS, but you drop a space marine scout squad in there and you can, wouldnt be the same with our wolf scouts and OBEL? A Land speeder storm has the scouts special rule, not OBEL

if i keep one fernisian wolf alive when my wolf lord or battle leader dies, does he still count as a victory point? or do they drag him off Things are done in kill points now, and the wolf with the HQ is 1 kill point, but if the HQ dies first then the wolves are removed from play as normal just like it says in the codex (if wolves die first you still need to kill HQ to get a kill point, think of it as a wargear upgrade for the HQ)

 

Hope I answered what you needed, post more if you still have questions, also check the FAQ and the B&C FAQ first to avoid any redundancies.

[kittenofdeath]

ah, a PA TDA mix, ingenious, but im still a bit iffy on the last two, moreso the second last one, i know that the storm doesnt have OBEL, but it doesnt have infiltrate/outflank either, so since OBEL is basicaly super outflank, im guessing that it would work the same way, and as hard as i look, theres nothing that says that the speeder would nulify the OBEL rule.

 

and as for the last one, it says that if even one of the wolves are still alive when the IC dies, then it will drag the corpse away, denying the enemy his corpse, and not giving them any bonus's for getting him, im just not sure if this works with the new rule system

[Wolf89]

ah, a PA TDA mix, ingenious, but im still a bit iffy on the last two, moreso the second last one, i know that the storm doesnt have OBEL, but it doesnt have infiltrate/outflank either, so since OBEL is basicaly super outflank, im guessing that it would work the same way, and as hard as i look, theres nothing that says that the speeder would nulify the OBEL rule. As I already stated, the storm has SCOUTS. SCOUTS lets you outflank. In the BBB it also states that a unit witht he infiltrate special ability that is inside a transport vehicle that they cannot infiltrate, so I don't know where you got that idea. Remember that Outflanking with multiple units (aka a scout squad and a land speeder storm) they may be placed inside and both rolled for at the same time to come on the table, but BOTH units (the storm included) must have the same ability to be able to utilize it, hence the storm can outflank (remember it has SCOUTS) as well as scouts because they have infiltrate and scouts (both allow outflanking). The Storm DOESN'T have OBEL as a special rule, so it can't use it. Hope this cleared up your confusion. ;)

 

and as for the last one, it says that if even one of the wolves are still alive when the IC dies, then it will drag the corpse away, denying the enemy his corpse, and not giving them any bonus's for getting him, im just not sure if this works with the new rule system This hasn't had any impact on 40k since 3rd edition where you had special stuff to capture bodies. Also you're reading the sentence completely wrong, it says " If their master is killed then the Wolves will drag away his body to a place of safety and so are removed from the play as soon as he dies. In games where the enemy are allowed to 'capture' characters, or can remove things from their dead bodies, they may not do so if any of the Fenrisian Wolves that accompanied the character were able to drag him off (ie, at least one was still alive when the character was slain). This has no effect on 5th and your opponent will always get the victory points and kill points as normal. :)

 

Again, any more questions, feel free to ask.

[kittenofdeath]

ah, a PA TDA mix, ingenious, but im still a bit iffy on the last two, moreso the second last one, i know that the storm doesnt have OBEL, but it doesnt have infiltrate/outflank either, so since OBEL is basicaly super outflank, im guessing that it would work the same way, and as hard as i look, theres nothing that says that the speeder would nulify the OBEL rule. As I already stated, the storm has SCOUTS. SCOUTS lets you outflank. In the BBB it also states that a unit witht he infiltrate special ability that is inside a transport vehicle that they cannot infiltrate, so I don't know where you got that idea. Remember that Outflanking with multiple units (aka a scout squad and a land speeder storm) they may be placed inside and both rolled for at the same time to come on the table, but BOTH units (the storm included) must have the same ability to be able to utilize it, hence the storm can outflank (remember it has SCOUTS) as well as scouts because they have infiltrate and scouts (both allow outflanking). The Storm DOESN'T have OBEL as a special rule, so it can't use it. Hope this cleared up your confusion. :)

 

and as for the last one, it says that if even one of the wolves are still alive when the IC dies, then it will drag the corpse away, denying the enemy his corpse, and not giving them any bonus's for getting him, im just not sure if this works with the new rule system This hasn't had any impact on 40k since 3rd edition where you had special stuff to capture bodies. Also you're reading the sentence completely wrong, it says " If their master is killed then the Wolves will drag away his body to a place of safety and so are removed from the play as soon as he dies. In games where the enemy are allowed to 'capture' characters, or can remove things from their dead bodies, they may not do so if any of the Fenrisian Wolves that accompanied the character were able to drag him off (ie, at least one was still alive when the character was slain). This has no effect on 5th and your opponent will always get the victory points and kill points as normal. :)

 

Again, any more questions, feel free to ask.

 

ah, i had forgotten scout gave outflank, but infiltraitors does give outflank to a units transport as well, but meh, i'll just discuss it with whoever im playing at the time before the game

 

and bugger on that second one

[Beef]

Welcome back brother I hope most of your questions have been answered now get out there and start kicking butt

[Wolf89]

ah, i had forgotten scout gave outflank, but infiltraitors does give outflank to a units transport as well, but meh, i'll just discuss it with whoever im playing at the time before the game

 

and bugger on that second one

 

What I was saying is you can't infiltrate with the Storm, which is what I thought you were saying earlier.

[kittenofdeath]

Welcome back brother I hope most of your questions have been answered now get out there and start kicking butt

 

already have... sorta, i got a draw with plauge marines for my first proper game

[kittenofdeath]

ah, i had forgotten scout gave outflank, but infiltraitors does give outflank to a units transport as well, but meh, i'll just discuss it with whoever im playing at the time before the game

 

and bugger on that second one

 

What I was saying is you can't infiltrate with the Storm, which is what I thought you were saying earlier.

 

ah, i know they cant infiltrate, what im saying is if a unit can infiltrate, and therfore outflank, then their transport can outflank, since OBEL is a more badass version of outflank, it should work with the transport as well

[Wolf89]

ah, i know they cant infiltrate, what im saying is if a unit can infiltrate, and therfore outflank, then their transport can outflank, since OBEL is a more badass version of outflank, it should work with the transport as well

 

You seem to be missing the point that OBEL is an entirely different ability in it's own right and the storm can't perform that function. Trust me, this has been a topic as soon as the SM codex came out, and it can't OBEL.

[kittenofdeath]

ah, i know they cant infiltrate, what im saying is if a unit can infiltrate, and therfore outflank, then their transport can outflank, since OBEL is a more badass version of outflank, it should work with the transport as well

 

You seem to be missing the point that OBEL is an entirely different ability in it's own right and the storm can't perform that function. Trust me, this has been a topic as soon as the SM codex came out, and it can't OBEL.

 

meh, whatever, personaly i think it should work, but i'll yeald to the knowledge of a more venerable pack member on this one, wont stop me using it that way if my oponent agrees though, thanks for the help

 

and another question (im just full of em, aint i?) is it at all posible to mix space wolves with 13 company outside of apocolypse games?

[Wolf89]

and another question (im just full of em, aint i?) is it at all posible to mix space wolves with 13 company outside of apocolypse games? Only one way, and that's 1 wulfen model as per C:SW, otherwise it's not going to happen outside apoc (unless you're playing some double's tournament or something).

[Vash113]

meh, whatever, personaly i think it should work, but i'll yeald to the knowledge of a more venerable pack member on this one, wont stop me using it that way if my oponent agrees though, thanks for the help

 

Well that would be, frankly, cheating. OBEL and Infiltrate are two entirely different things (even then the Storm can't infiltrate), there's nadda to even begin to support a Land Speeder Storm going with the Scouts OBELing, in fact since the Storm isn't a dedicated transport it can't go with a squad that's outflanking either I believe. It has Scouts, so it can outflank but it's independant of a squad that's outflanking if I recall correctly. Whichever way you look at it, a Storm cannot OBEL. Don't take advantage of opponents who don't know the rules very well, it's not the wolfy thing to do :rolleyes:.

 

and another question (im just full of em, aint i?) is it at all posible to mix space wolves with 13 company outside of apocolypse games?

 

Nope, not even the above posters suggestion with a model with Mark of the Wulfen, even then that's not a 13th Company SW nor an actual Wulfen model. The only time would be in a doubles game or something.

[kittenofdeath]

meh, whatever, personaly i think it should work, but i'll yeald to the knowledge of a more venerable pack member on this one, wont stop me using it that way if my oponent agrees though, thanks for the help

 

Well that would be, frankly, cheating. OBEL and Infiltrate are two entirely different things (even then the Storm can't infiltrate), there's nadda to even begin to support a Land Speeder Storm going with the Scouts OBELing, in fact since the Storm isn't a dedicated transport it can't go with a squad that's outflanking either I believe. It has Scouts, so it can outflank but it's independant of a squad that's outflanking if I recall correctly. Whichever way you look at it, a Storm cannot OBEL. Don't take advantage of opponents who don't know the rules very well, it's not the wolfy thing to do :P.

 

and another question (im just full of em, aint i?) is it at all posible to mix space wolves with 13 company outside of apocolypse games?

 

Nope, not even the above posters suggestion with a model with Mark of the Wulfen, even then that's not a 13th Company SW nor an actual Wulfen model. The only time would be in a doubles game or something.

 

 

yeah, i didnt think i would be able to *sighs and puts away my wolfen models*

 

and the outflank from infiltrate thing only works with dedicated transports? dam, didnt know that, yeah, i guess i have to agree with you now that i know that, no OBEL'n storms for me, pitty though

 

well thats pretty much all the rules questions i can think of, so thank you all for your assistance, i hope someday i can return the favour

[Vash113]

yeah, i didnt think i would be able to *sighs and puts away my wolfen models*

 

Keep those around, some rumours insist that Wulfen packs will be incorporated into the new dex. I've got 10 sitting on my WIP bench awaiting a paint job myself.

 

and the outflank from infiltrate thing only works with dedicated transports? dam, didnt know that, yeah, i guess i have to agree with you now that i know that, no OBEL'n storms for me, pitty though

 

It's to do with reserves if I recall correctly, to have a unit and a transport arrive together the transport has to be dedicated to that unit, so you couldn't do that with a non dedicated Land Raider either for instance. At least I'm pretty sure that's how it works, I'm not too familiar with the changes from 4th to 5th though so you may want to check.

 

well thats pretty much all the rules questions i can think of, so thank you all for your assistance, i hope someday i can return the favour

 

There's always more to learn and share, no worries. :)

[kittenofdeath]

yeah, i didnt think i would be able to *sighs and puts away my wolfen models*

 

Keep those around, some rumours insist that Wulfen packs will be incorporated into the new dex. I've got 10 sitting on my WIP bench awaiting a paint job myself.

 

and the outflank from infiltrate thing only works with dedicated transports? dam, didnt know that, yeah, i guess i have to agree with you now that i know that, no OBEL'n storms for me, pitty though

 

It's to do with reserves if I recall correctly, to have a unit and a transport arrive together the transport has to be dedicated to that unit, so you couldn't do that with a non dedicated Land Raider either for instance. At least I'm pretty sure that's how it works, I'm not too familiar with the changes from 4th to 5th though so you may want to check.

 

well thats pretty much all the rules questions i can think of, so thank you all for your assistance, i hope someday i can return the favour

 

There's always more to learn and share, no worries. :)

 

that there is, but until i have something to share, or i know what to learn, i can do neither