My current Killhammer army - 2000 points.

[Warp Angel]

Submitted without commentary on WHY (I'm still formulating the army building post). It'll be interesting to see how people evaluate it from a Killhammer perspective.

 

CORE (the base of my army ~700 points, not negotiable)

--------------

HQ: Captain, Bike, Relic Blade, Hellfire

Troop: Bike x 8, Attack Bike w/MM, Plasma, Flamer, PF Sarge

Troop: Tactical x10, HB, Flamer, PF/Bolter Sarge, Razorback w/HB

 

ADDS

--------------

Troop: Tactical x10, HB, Flamer, PP/CCW Sarge (I like the model), Rhino

Heavy: Land Raider Crusader w/MM

Elite: Assault Terminators x7 w/TH&SS

HQ: Pedro Cantor

Heavy: Thunderfire

Elite: Sternguard x5 w/2x Plasma Cannon, Razorback w/LC

 

4-7 scoring, 12 KP

[bt2278]

Troop: Tactical x10, HB, Flamer, PF/Bolter Sarge, Razorback w/HB

 

Empty Razorback as mobile Heavy Bolter? ;)

[ExarPucc]

That's actually a very interesting list. It's quite diversified. I like it.

[Warp Angel]

Troop: Tactical x10, HB, Flamer, PF/Bolter Sarge, Razorback w/HB

 

Empty Razorback as mobile Heavy Bolter? :P

 

Assuming that I field the Tacticals as a full 10 man, and haven't taken casualties, yes.

 

I can always choose to combat squad.

[Marlow]

CORE (the base of my army ~700 points, not negotiable)

--------------

HQ: Captain, Bike, Relic Blade, Hellfire

Troop: Bike x 8, Attack Bike w/MM, Plasma, Flamer, PF Sarge

Appart from my Bike Sgt have a PW (becuase that is the model) this is the Core of my main army. Do you Combat Squad them with the Captain and if so how? I usually send him off with the Flamer and Sgt.

 

I have never used the HB in a Tactical squad (mainly as I have no models with one) rate of fire is good against hordes. Personally I think the ML is more versitile.

 

HQ: Pedro Cantor

Elite: Sternguard x5 w/2x Plasma Cannon, Razorback w/LC

I love Kantor, mainly playing 1.5k I take him or the Captain. Are you Sternguard a scoring Devastator squad? I had been looking at using Plasma Guns on them for additional MEQ damage not really looked at the PC. I was doing Mathhammer (not quite the same as Killhammer but similar) on Razorback weapons and think the TLLC is the weakest choice. TLAC has better K1 but less range and the LC&TLPG while being slightly less accurate against heavy armour makes up for it with 2-3 shots at medium/short range for taking out hordes and light armour. I guess you either disagree or have not looked at them in detail?

 

Heavy: Thunderfire

This is one of the models I like the look of but do not own. Anything that ignores covers is good and it does have a decent range. I will have to mock one up for a game with friends.

[rockdeity]

- focus of the bikes seems muddled. Mix of different-range/different target weapons. I guess this is supposed to harass or be able to generally counter everything. Seems like it has no real focus

 

- TH/SS termies in a LRC... beauty, it has no flaws.

 

- pedro seems a waste with only one sternguard and he doesn't have the same movement rate as the bikes so he won't be buffing their hth attacks reliably. I don't think he's needed in this list. I would instead put another bike HQ as support (chaplain maybe), or I imagine you roll him with the termies in the crusader so if you really want more punch there, go for another captain, chapter master, or named character (I like cassius, but hey). Pedro just isn't all wow in CC and the rr tohits on the charge will be just as good if not better than another attack.

 

- TFC seems like a strange choice too, with the lack of soft targets and ranged firepower, a TFC will be an attractive target as both. It doesn't really do much damage unless against horde, needs LoS, doesn't have full 48" range and it's pretty easy to take down.

 

- I like the sternguard but I personally prefer lascans on them. I've seen in your other posts you like the PC instead, but 1) I just can't stomach the idea of losing them to gets hot when those are basically the only long range hammer you brought. 2) You have little AV and no long range AV, though you have plenty of stuff to fight infantry and heavy infantry. I can't see putting plascans anywhere but tacs/dreads. If you lose even one to gets hot the effectiveness of devs or stern goes down by half.

 

Overall, I think the half-firebase/half-forward line thing works well, but both halves need to be fairly impressive. I just don't get that feeling from either half, although the LR + termies is a nice base for the mobile element. I think you can drop the 2nd tac squad and pick a more specialized unit to either add mass to the forward strike or firepower to the rear. If you drop the TFC and the tac squad, you can actually get a 2nd LR. Imagine the possibilities there!

[Warp Angel]

- focus of the bikes seems muddled. Mix of different-range/different target weapons. I guess this is supposed to harass or be able to generally counter everything. Seems like it has no real focus

 

My bikes are filling the role of "Cleaner" in my list. They aren't designed to do anything on their own. I've had tremendous success with this configuration, and find that it's balanced between being anti-horde and anti-MEQ. If you focus on anti-MEQ too much, you lose your impact against horde and vice versa. When it's deployed with an attached Captain, the goal is to scoot in, shoot, assault, wipe the table, and move on. They aren't supposed to be a focused unit, but the range difference isn't an issue since I intend on them being within 18" of the enemy every turn and assaulting if possible. If I'm stuck at longer range, I've still got TL bolters instead of the flamer... an advantage that footsloggers don't get with the same loadout of special weapons.

 

- TH/SS termies in a LRC... beauty, it has no flaws.

 

I'm always contemplating basic terminators until I remember Monstrous Creatures, Lash Lists, and Nob Bikes.

 

- pedro seems a waste with only one sternguard and he doesn't have the same movement rate as the bikes so he won't be buffing their hth attacks reliably. I don't think he's needed in this list. I would instead put another bike HQ as support (chaplain maybe), or I imagine you roll him with the termies in the crusader so if you really want more punch there, go for another captain, chapter master, or named character (I like cassius, but hey). Pedro just isn't all wow in CC and the rr tohits on the charge will be just as good if not better than another attack.

 

Pedro is one of the most flexible things in my list. I can stick him with the TH/SS Terminators and give them an extra attack. There's a reason that I have 7 instead of 8 in my crusader. I can keep him in the back with either the Sternguard, one of my Tacticals, or add him to a combat squad and send them up in a Razorback. Because I can put him in vehicles, he can and does keep the bikes within 12" most of the time. When he's buffed up the TH/SS boys... wow. If you're familiar with Way of the Water Water Warrior, he's a pure Water unit the way that I use him. I also love having my army be Stubborn. It allows me to tie up units that I can't otherwise deal with at the moment for a little bit longer most of the time. The fact that my Sternguard are scoring is just a bonus.

 

- TFC seems like a strange choice too, with the lack of soft targets and ranged firepower, a TFC will be an attractive target as both. It doesn't really do much damage unless against horde, needs LoS, doesn't have full 48" range and it's pretty easy to take down.

 

It's more versatile than the Dakka Predator that I usually take in this slot and fulfills a similar role. I've been very impressed with its performance in the couple of games that I've used it in so far. Looking at the rest of the list, my opponent is going to be spending a lot of time trying to figure out what to attack, and the TFire is probably not going to be high on that list. I like the +1 cover save and getting the Techmarine so "cheap" is like an added bonus.

 

- I like the sternguard but I personally prefer lascans on them. I've seen in your other posts you like the PC instead, but 1) I just can't stomach the idea of losing them to gets hot when those are basically the only long range hammer you brought. 2) You have little AV and no long range AV, though you have plenty of stuff to fight infantry and heavy infantry. I can't see putting plascans anywhere but tacs/dreads. If you lose even one to gets hot the effectiveness of devs or stern goes down by half.

 

The Sternguard are probably the least set in stone unit that I've got. Lascannons are an option, as is giving them combi weapons and a drop pod instead of a Razorback. The reason I like the PCs is because of the WAY that I use my army, I tend to get my opponent clumped up, making them able to inflict far more casualties than the Lascannons ever could. It's worth the loss of a guy the 1 out of 18 times I shoot it.

 

Overall, I think the half-firebase/half-forward line thing works well, but both halves need to be fairly impressive. I just don't get that feeling from either half, although the LR + termies is a nice base for the mobile element. I think you can drop the 2nd tac squad and pick a more specialized unit to either add mass to the forward strike or firepower to the rear. If you drop the TFC and the tac squad, you can actually get a 2nd LR. Imagine the possibilities there!

 

I don't play it like a half-firebase though. The only static units in the list are the Sternguard and the TFire. The other 10 killpoints are designed to move or sit depending on the battlefield situation. The key is concentrating my assets.

 

But, like everything else Killhammer related, it suits my playstyle, so I'm probably more effective with it than most other people would be.

[Warp Angel]

CORE (the base of my army ~700 points, not negotiable)

--------------

HQ: Captain, Bike, Relic Blade, Hellfire

Troop: Bike x 8, Attack Bike w/MM, Plasma, Flamer, PF Sarge

Appart from my Bike Sgt have a PW (becuase that is the model) this is the Core of my main army. Do you Combat Squad them with the Captain and if so how? I usually send him off with the Flamer and Sgt.

 

I almost never combat squad my bikes. Their increased effectiveness when assaulting with all 9 models and the captain allows them to break far more opponents. If I was facing a low-model count/high vehicle army, I'd probably consider it, but I haven't done it yet.

 

I have never used the HB in a Tactical squad (mainly as I have no models with one) rate of fire is good against hordes. Personally I think the ML is more versitile.

 

You might be right, but I like the heavy bolters. A missle launcher will fail with a crack grenade 1 out of 3 times, and often get fewer than 2 with a template. I'm pretty confident that I'm going to average 2 hits a turn with the HB, and while I sacrifice anti-tank and insta-kill, I have consistency in the number of enemy models I can remove each turn. The HB is also AP 4, which gives most non-marine armies fits. Frags don't compete.

 

HQ: Pedro Cantor

Elite: Sternguard x5 w/2x Plasma Cannon, Razorback w/LC

I love Kantor, mainly playing 1.5k I take him or the Captain. Are you Sternguard a scoring Devastator squad? I had been looking at using Plasma Guns on them for additional MEQ damage not really looked at the PC. I was doing Mathhammer (not quite the same as Killhammer but similar) on Razorback weapons and think the TLLC is the weakest choice. TLAC has better K1 but less range and the LC&TLPG while being slightly less accurate against heavy armour makes up for it with 2-3 shots at medium/short range for taking out hordes and light armour. I guess you either disagree or have not looked at them in detail?

 

Yep, they're scoring devs in this configuration. I'm not using them as Sternguard as much as I'm using them as firebase devastators. I've got a lot of kit out options at the same price point, so I'm not "stuck" with what they have. I need at least one lascannon type weapon in my list, and I need a Razorback. If I owned (I used to, and might convert one at some point) a LC/TLPG model, I'd definitely consider it in the same slot.

 

Heavy: Thunderfire

This is one of the models I like the look of but do not own. Anything that ignores covers is good and it does have a decent range. I will have to mock one up for a game with friends.

 

I find that the ability to make bikes and jump pack infantry make dangerous terrain tests very appealing. It takes 10 bolter shots to reliably wound one Marine, and I get a 1 out of 6 AFTER I've had a chance to inflict casualties with my shooting. Ignoring cover is nice against low save/AV troops, and S6 is just plain nice, even if it does give saves to MEQ. It's cheap and I get a really potent guy if the cannon goes down. I might switch back to a Dakka Predator, but not sure.

[robdark1]

well warp angels you got me on this one so far with amount of stuff that you can do with a list overall. lost of stuff that you can do to make the other person decide what is more improtant in playing you all together. the only question that i a have is why not have two of the same unit do the clean up work to support the rest of the army?

[minigun762]

Interesting army. At first glance it appears to be kinda haphazard and full of new SM toys but as you look deeper I think it has the flexibility and killing potential to work.

 

The one thing that sticks out to me as odd is the Terminators and Crusader.

Its just so obvious of a target to me where are everything else is dangerous but less blatant.

Its also a big point sink and that always worries me. I see it being powerful and a focal point for your army, but I wonder if you spread out that same firepower amongst a wider variety of sources.

 

Off the top of my head I'd think something like a IronClad+ Drop Pod, a Hellfire Dread and either another Rhino squad, a Assault squad or maybe a Sniper Scout squad.

 

EDIT: I think it would be alot of fun to take my mechanized Iron Warriors up against this list. 2 mobile, flexible armies would make for an interesting game I believe.

[Warp Angel]

Interesting army. At first glance it appears to be kinda haphazard and full of new SM toys but as you look deeper I think it has the flexibility and killing potential to work.

 

The one thing that sticks out to me as odd is the Terminators and Crusader.

Its just so obvious of a target to me where are everything else is dangerous but less blatant.

Its also a big point sink and that always worries me. I see it being powerful and a focal point for your army, but I wonder if you spread out that same firepower amongst a wider variety of sources.

 

Off the top of my head I'd think something like a IronClad+ Drop Pod, a Hellfire Dread and either another Rhino squad, a Assault squad or maybe a Sniper Scout squad.

 

EDIT: I think it would be alot of fun to take my mechanized Iron Warriors up against this list. 2 mobile, flexible armies would make for an interesting game I believe.

 

I've been almost unable to kill Land Raiders, and aside from dozens of glancing hits from Necrons, haven't really lost one. All I really care about is keeping the termies protected for a turn or so until I can dump them into the enemy. If it's drawing the Anti-Tank, then my other, lighter vehicles and their contents are relatively safe.

 

As an alternate deployment, if my opponent is loaded on Anti-Tank, I'm willing to deep strike my terminators and really confuse people. Yeah, it's less efficient, but I've got the flexibility to do that. I still keep thinking about a Godhammer and regular Termies, but I haven't finalized my decisions on that one.

 

And if they're shooting at my dismounted terminators, they're not shooting at my bikes. It's a matter of giving them too many targets and to make sure that everything is mutually supporting. That lone Rhino is very useful for providing a 4+ cover save for the Land Raider too.

 

The key to this list is flexibility: In deployment, in movement, in engagement. No one unit (outside of the Terminators) is particularly overwhelming, but when acting in concert becomes far greater than the sum of it's parts.

[rockdeity]

- focus of the bikes seems muddled. Mix of different-range/different target weapons. I guess this is supposed to harass or be able to generally counter everything. Seems like it has no real focus

 

My bikes are filling the role of "Cleaner" in my list. They aren't designed to do anything on their own. I've had tremendous success with this configuration, and find that it's balanced between being anti-horde and anti-MEQ. If you focus on anti-MEQ too much, you lose your impact against horde and vice versa. When it's deployed with an attached Captain, the goal is to scoot in, shoot, assault, wipe the table, and move on. They aren't supposed to be a focused unit, but the range difference isn't an issue since I intend on them being within 18" of the enemy every turn and assaulting if possible. If I'm stuck at longer range, I've still got TL bolters instead of the flamer... an advantage that footsloggers don't get with the same loadout of special weapons.

 

Ok, seems pretty good for that, just a bit expensive. You could do that for cheaper (like assault marines or vanguard... I think all Fast units are good cleaners) but it wouldn't score.

 

- pedro seems a waste with only one sternguard and he doesn't have the same movement rate as the bikes so he won't be buffing their hth attacks reliably. I don't think he's needed in this list. I would instead put another bike HQ as support (chaplain maybe), or I imagine you roll him with the termies in the crusader so if you really want more punch there, go for another captain, chapter master, or named character (I like cassius, but hey). Pedro just isn't all wow in CC and the rr tohits on the charge will be just as good if not better than another attack.

 

Pedro is one of the most flexible things in my list. I can stick him with the TH/SS Terminators and give them an extra attack. There's a reason that I have 7 instead of 8 in my crusader. I can keep him in the back with either the Sternguard, one of my Tacticals, or add him to a combat squad and send them up in a Razorback. Because I can put him in vehicles, he can and does keep the bikes within 12" most of the time. When he's buffed up the TH/SS boys... wow. If you're familiar with Way of the Water Water Warrior, he's a pure Water unit the way that I use him. I also love having my army be Stubborn. It allows me to tie up units that I can't otherwise deal with at the moment for a little bit longer most of the time. The fact that my Sternguard are scoring is just a bonus.

 

little math, one extra attack to the TH termies means against WS4 or higher, you get an extra half hit (hit on a 4+) per termie, but if you reroll the base 3 attacks, you get get an extra 3/4 of a hit per termie on the charge. Plus, pedro is always people's first target. Anything that can instakill will try to direct attacks toward him and nerf your termies again. It comes down to taste, I guess, though. I think Pedro is overkill in this list and really obvious but he isn't useless... just inefficient point-wise. If you had one more stern, I think it would strengthen the firebase and make pedro more worth it. If you must take pedro, at least consider trading that add-on tac for another stern dev squad.

 

- TFC seems like a strange choice too, with the lack of soft targets and ranged firepower, a TFC will be an attractive target as both. It doesn't really do much damage unless against horde, needs LoS, doesn't have full 48" range and it's pretty easy to take down.

 

It's more versatile than the Dakka Predator that I usually take in this slot and fulfills a similar role. I've been very impressed with its performance in the couple of games that I've used it in so far. Looking at the rest of the list, my opponent is going to be spending a lot of time trying to figure out what to attack, and the TFire is probably not going to be high on that list. I like the +1 cover save and getting the Techmarine so "cheap" is like an added bonus.

 

...

 

Overall, I think the half-firebase/half-forward line thing works well, but both halves need to be fairly impressive. I just don't get that feeling from either half, although the LR + termies is a nice base for the mobile element. I think you can drop the 2nd tac squad and pick a more specialized unit to either add mass to the forward strike or firepower to the rear. If you drop the TFC and the tac squad, you can actually get a 2nd LR. Imagine the possibilities there!

 

I don't play it like a half-firebase though. The only static units in the list are the Sternguard and the TFire. The other 10 killpoints are designed to move or sit depending on the battlefield situation. The key is concentrating my assets.

 

But, like everything else Killhammer related, it suits my playstyle, so I'm probably more effective with it than most other people would be.

 

I think that's the problem, your firebase is just kind of weak. I can't speak for everyone but I would definitely target your sterns and TFC early, and could afford to send a small assault force to take them out or tie them up very easily without a lot of commitment. A dakka pred would be a pretty good trade, but I think a WW would be even better.

[Warp Angel]

But, like everything else Killhammer related, it suits my playstyle, so I'm probably more effective with it than most other people would be.

 

I think that's the problem, your firebase is just kind of weak. I can't speak for everyone but I would definitely target your sterns and TFC early, and could afford to send a small assault force to take them out or tie them up very easily without a lot of commitment. A dakka pred would be a pretty good trade, but I think a WW would be even better.

 

It's a sucker bet. 5 Marines is tough enough that a half-hearted effort to destroy it is probably going to result in your army losing Killing power (total army K1) faster than I am. If you focus the amount of effort on it that it takes to wipe it out, there are equally or more dangerous units out there that you aren't going after, which results (again) in your army losing K1 faster than mine.

 

Applying the Killhammer formula (K1 -K2) - (D1 - D2) + S to my unit from an opponent's point of view, the Sternguard have a high K1, low K2, average D1, and low to average D2, and a great S (being scoring). They're a tempting target for my enemy. But I can manipulate D2 in my favor by proper deployment, making it difficult to engage them with anything but heavy weapons or fast-moving assault units, making them a less attractive choice for my opponent to go after, because it takes more time and effort to do so.

 

For my army's purposes, (K1 - K2) + (D1 + D2) + S, they're not anywhere near my highest rated unit. In a balanced list, their loss isn't going to be too significant, even if the enemy is able to engage immediately. But they're dangerous enough that they're useful. That same D2 manipulation makes them harder to kill and if my opponent starts going for them, I have dictated his tactics and am now able to predict and plan for what he's going to do next. Being able to plan (and being mobile enough to execute) allows for me to decrease the K2 of my whole army while also decreasing the D2 of some or all of the enemy's units.

 

It's almost like bait for my bike squad that's held in reserves... please, come after my "weak" Sternguard. You get whittled down a little bit, possibly hurt the Sternguard badly, but there's not an MEQ unit capable of inflicting casualties against the Sternguard at a distance that isn't going to be crushed by rapid firing bikes that follow on with an assault.

 

Yes, there are absolutely better pure Killhammer rated (or by whatever system you want) units that I could put into my list. But I lose the synergy.

 

Additionally, if you aren't convinced that bikes aren't better or equal in almost every way than an assault squad, I'm not going to convince you here. Suffice it to say that I'm sold and sold again on the ability to rapid fire, use special and heavy weapons, and THEN get into an assault in the same turn, combined with T5, makes them far more effective in inflicting casualties, denying losses, and winning CC by an equal or larger margin being better than a bolt pistol and chainsword armed guy with T4 firing one shot each and maybe two pistols or flamers, before going in to combat. Bikes are also better at taking fire after they win combat than assault squads are. And only slightly more expensive. 300 or so points for my loadout.

[Warp Angel]

Sorry, robdark1, I missed your comment.

 

well warp angels you got me on this one so far with amount of stuff that you can do with a list overall. lost of stuff that you can do to make the other person decide what is more improtant in playing you all together. the only question that i a have is why not have two of the same unit do the clean up work to support the rest of the army?

 

You got the point of the army. My opponent commits to opposing ONE of my strategies or units, I've got other ones that I can use as well as being able to dictate what my opponent does next.

 

The bikes are my BEST Cleaner unit. They aren't the only one. The terminators, land raider, or even one of the tactical squads can cover for me if I have a catastrophic failure of the bikes before they've done their job. That's part of the reason why I'm adequately mechanized. I've got redundancy and backup systems, but like backup systems in the real world, they aren't as great as the primary.

 

That's actually one of the reasons that Pedro's so valuable in this list. He can turn any tactical squad into an assault squad in hand to hand. He makes my Termies better if he's attached, and hes a second character that I can send off solo to pick off stragglers if I need to and it's reasonably safe to do so. And he makes my backup cleaners stubborn, so at the very least they're able to contest, even if they can't score.

[Warp Angel]

little math, one extra attack to the TH termies means against WS4 or higher, you get an extra half hit (hit on a 4+) per termie, but if you reroll the base 3 attacks, you get get an extra 3/4 of a hit per termie on the charge. Plus, pedro is always people's first target. Anything that can instakill will try to direct attacks toward him and nerf your termies again. It comes down to taste, I guess, though. I think Pedro is overkill in this list and really obvious but he isn't useless... just inefficient point-wise. If you had one more stern, I think it would strengthen the firebase and make pedro more worth it. If you must take pedro, at least consider trading that add-on tac for another stern dev squad.

 

I wanted to respond to this part separately.

 

- In a squad of 6 (I have 7) assault terminators, 1/2 hit per terminator is still 3 hits and 2 wounds more than I would cause otherwise. That should be enough, when combined with the regular attacks, to break or completely destroy just about anything I'm up against.

- A Chappy or Vulkan provides some rerolls, but Vulkan only provides one per termie. The Chaplain provides true overkill to the Terminators, but doesn't buff the rest of my army, and isn't the stand alone CC god that Pedro can be if I need to detatch him. Vulkan is less of an overkill and does provide benefits to much of my army, but not all of it. I WANT stubborn.

[robdark1]

yes you are right about the fact that you ahave mult fall back unit incase that one or more of the unit do die in the course of the game. not to metion it sound like you already got a follow up unit to take place of a unit to take the hits if tha that happen in the meantime.

my next question is that were would you put you army on the table being that there are two flanks and a center to consdier? knowing this make a very intersting question to answer when you play..

[Brother Gathurn]

Why do the sterngaurd have pc's you pay for the bolters I think you should use them. Thats how I do it anyway

[Warp Angel]

yes you are right about the fact that you ahave mult fall back unit incase that one or more of the unit do die in the course of the game. not to metion it sound like you already got a follow up unit to take place of a unit to take the hits if tha that happen in the meantime.

my next question is that were would you put you army on the table being that there are two flanks and a center to consdier? knowing this make a very intersting question to answer when you play..

 

That's almost entirely dependent on my opponent and the board. I've been known to leave a whole flank open or to have an empty center. My bikes are usually in reserves though. On table quarters, you might even see my Land Raider with Termies in reserve too, just because I hate the lack of space and clumping my troops up.

[Warp Angel]

Why do the sterngaurd have pc's you pay for the bolters I think you should use them. Thats how I do it anyway

 

Because in my army they're cheaper than an identical Devastator squad and scoring.

[da_doktor]

Submitted without commentary on WHY (I'm still formulating the army building post). It'll be interesting to see how people evaluate it from a Killhammer perspective.

 

CORE (the base of my army ~700 points, not negotiable)

--------------

HQ: Captain, Bike, Relic Blade, Hellfire

Troop: Bike x 8, Attack Bike w/MM, Plasma, Flamer, PF Sarge

Troop: Tactical x10, HB, Flamer, PF/Bolter Sarge, Razorback w/HB

 

ADDS

--------------

Troop: Tactical x10, HB, Flamer, PP/CCW Sarge (I like the model), Rhino

Heavy: Land Raider Crusader w/MM

Elite: Assault Terminators x7 w/TH&SS

HQ: Pedro Cantor

Heavy: Thunderfire

Elite: Sternguard x5 w/2x Plasma Cannon, Razorback w/LC

 

4-7 scoring, 12 KP

 

Am I missing something or can a razorback only hold 6 models? There are a number of army lists going around with 10man squads and razorbacks.

 

Cheers!! B)

[minigun762]

Am I missing something or can a razorback only hold 6 models? There are a number of army lists going around with 10man squads and razorbacks.

Cheers!! :P

 

You're right, only 6 guys, but with Combat squadding, you can always put 5 guys into it.

[Pasch]

Any chance we could see your win ratio vs. different armies with that list? Your approach looks very balanced, I like it. Any armies you run into a lot of difficulty with?

[Warp Angel]

Any chance we could see your win ratio vs. different armies with that list? Your approach looks very balanced, I like it. Any armies you run into a lot of difficulty with?

 

Well, I haven't lost a non-Apocalypse game (and I wasn't necessarily playing to win all of those) since I had the Killhammer epiphany on how to play efficiently back in November. That's about 15 or so games with zero losses. Orks, Thousand Sons, and Imp Guard in addition to my Marines.

 

But this specific army gets it's training wheels taken off and a real game tomorrow against a Killhammer inspired Tyranid army that my friend plays. So my Ratio is 0:0:0 against all opponents.

 

This is a reduction of a 2500 point list that I used in a deescalation tournament. After 4 rounds, I had only permanently lost one predator, and won it all in the 5th. The pickup games with reductions of this list (1000 and 1500 points respectively) I won with. All of my victories have been EASY with the variations on this Marine list. I've played against Tyranids, Eldar, Necrons, Guard, and Marines with it.

 

I'm going to start posting battle reports for each of my Killhammer battles if I can find the time.

 

And I expect to lose when I get into a large local tournament... some of the players out here are just plain good, but there aren't any of those coming up anytime soon.

[Marlow]

You might be right, but I like the heavy bolters. A missle launcher will fail with a crack grenade 1 out of 3 times, and often get fewer than 2 with a template. I'm pretty confident that I'm going to average 2 hits a turn with the HB, and while I sacrifice anti-tank and insta-kill, I have consistency in the number of enemy models I can remove each turn. The HB is also AP 4, which gives most non-marine armies fits. Frags don't compete.

As dedicated anti infantry the HB is better especially as cover saves make quantity of fire rather than quality of fire more important.

I am usually popping APC's or Fraging Boyz with the ML which is probably not the most efficient use of the accompanying Bolter Marines, so perhaps I need to revise my Killhammer approach...

 

Pedro is one of the most flexible things in my list. I can stick him with the TH/SS Terminators and give them an extra attack. There's a reason that I have 7 instead of 8 in my crusader. I can keep him in the back with either the Sternguard, one of my Tacticals, or add him to a combat squad and send them up in a Razorback.

Personally I like to have Kantor in a Rhino with a combat squad. That way he can shoot four shots with Dorn's Arrow out of the hatch every turn and I can measure his aura from the hull giving me a few extra inches of Inspiring Presence.

[foster]

What is your success rate against the dreaded green tide with this list? How well would it fair against Orks?