Chaos against Tyranids

[djkest]

So obviously tyranids can have lot of cannon fodder, crazy good melee troops, and not a lot of shooting (although, can make a "shooty" tyranid army). How do you fight them? Are there any big surprises to tyranid armies? Do you move around strategically, trying to avoid melee combat and shooting, look for a week spot and assault it, or you try and break their synapse?

 

I slightly tailored my list by reducing meltaguns and increasing flamers and plasma, and also added another Havoc Launcher for a little more shooty. Hopefully I won't get mauled.

 

I'm thinking that defilers would be excellent against tyranids, but I don't have any.

[minigun762]

The issue with Tyranids is that they can be anything from a straight horde army to the Nidzilla MC spam to something in between.

 

Assuming a fairly typical Tyranid army of Tyrant, 3 Carnifex, 10-15 Genestealers and 30 Gaunts with a smattering of other things here is what I'd do.

 

1) Understand that Gaunts/Gargoyles/Raveners etc aren't that scary but the will be used to tie up your shooting forces and provide a cover save to things behind it.

2) Genestealers will be a tough match for Marines but its still winnable. Try to shoot them as much as possible before the charge and bring a Power Fist along.

3) Most Carnifex are either Dakkafex which sprays lots of TL'd S6 shots or a Gunflex which has a S8 pieplate and S10 gun but you get your armor save against both. Engage both of them in HtH combat with a Power Fist squad. You should win fairly easily.

4) Hive Tyrants tend to be fast moving (winged) assaulters, basically like a Daemon Prince. Shoot at range with Plasma/Missiles etc and then try to fist it.

5) Flamers are good if you have the speed to get in close. If you're walking, leave them at home since they'll just Fleet into you first.

6) Hiding in your Rhino can work for you, forces them to bust it open using their Rending and when they do, they're grouped up around it so you can hit them with a Flamer/Rapid Fire or Charge

7) Dakka Predator will be a nice way to thin out the horde and Obliterators will help against the big guys

8) Remember to watch out for synapse support. Warriors, Tyrants and Zoathropes have it and if he/she doesn't have one of those units near their little guys, there is a chance they'll just run away/stand still. Also remember synapse = no insta-killing

9) In general you want to shoot, shoot, shoot and then charge them once they're close (to deny them the charge if possible) Watch out for the little guys holding your squads in place and then the Genestealers/Tyrants coming to finish the job. Rhino walls work well to funnel them/force them to move.

[Dràyhèn]

I think vindi is better vs nids, cc is quite ineffective. Too many of them can rend or otherwise cleave your def apart with ease. When playing vs nids, you should avoid cc and stop the fastest units first, either by locking/slowing them. Also, taking care of any raveners, lictors and genestealers at first hand is a good way to start. You don't really want to waste a single turn of shooting, don't ya? a couple of pie plates, mounted on vindis and/or defis is a good choice. Dakka preds also do significant damage, just naked pred with hb sponsons. Troops w/ bolters and meltas are also a good choice, maybe combi-flamer for asp. And you better watch out for those nasty devourer-tyrants, they can pretty much render a half of your unit down in a single volley. Oblits have proven to be useful in just about any situation, they even have tl-flamers.

[Zeller]

Bare in mind that because of the synapse rule, if they lose assault, they make more saves! It works against Orks too.

[Warp Angel]

5th edition says that if the genestealers (unaugmented) charge, with just a 10 man squad, you're getting 30 attacks, 20 hits, 10 wounds, and 3 of those rending.

 

You lose five guys out of your squad of 10. You attack back with 10 attacks, 3 powerfist. Hitting with 5 and 2, wounding with 3 and 2, killing 1 and 2. You've lost combat by 2 and need to make a Ld 8 check to not run and get caught by their I6. Later rounds of combat you do better, but start more disadvantaged, since they always go first based on init.

 

If they've got feeder tendrils, or a broodlord, lictor, or upgraded hive tyrant with them, they're rerolling all of their to hits, which means you're potentially wiped or losing combat by 6 or 7 wounds. Other upgrades like scything talons and S boosts make the CC even more lopsided.

 

If you plan on getting into hand to hand, you need numbers (larger than 10 squads), or you need Berzerkers. Or, if you want to play with a balanced force, just keep 2 medium sized squads in mutual support distance of each other. It might actually be a more effective tactic.

 

They are vulnerable to shooting, but the stuff that works against hordes doesn't work against the big bugs and vice versa. The exception being the Vindicator, like someone else pointed out.

 

A balanced army is still a good approach.

 

Their MCs are better than your MCs in most situations, though not always. You can't rely on them to be the CC gods they usually are.

 

Vehicles are another strong component in your list, espeically basic Rhinos with havoc launchers. You get decent anti-horde at relatively low cost and they have to divert a lot of CC potential to kill them tha would otherwise be directed at your infantry.

 

It's a risky proposition, but a Defiler is very potent against the regular bugs, but dies horribly to the big ones.

 

Again, a balanced approach to fighting them is probably a good idea. It's the specialized Chaos lists that seem to have a problem.

 

As a final note, a lot of my games are against Tyranids, and my friend absolutely HATES facing my Thousand Sons. Only a handful of models in his army get armor saves against them, and the 4+ invuln neutralizes a lot of the advantages his Genestealers have with rending.

[minigun762]

You lose five guys out of your squad of 10. You attack back with 10 attacks, 3 powerfist. Hitting with 5 and 2, wounding with 3 and 2, killing 1 and 2. You've lost combat by 2 and need to make a Ld 8 check to not run and get caught by their I6. Later rounds of combat you do better, but start more disadvantaged, since they always go first based on init.

 

Well in all fairness, you shouldn't be hit by a 10 man Genestealer squad unless it was larger than that to begin with.

You can reliably count on 1 shot @ 13"+ and 2 shots @ 12" or less. Thats a total of 30 shots = 20 hits = 10 wounds = 5-10 dead Genestealers depending on if they have Carapace/cover save etc, and thats just counting Bolters.

 

The key is, if you're within range to charge them, its normally better to charge than rapid fire and let yourself be charged (speaking as basic CSMs). Thousand Sons and Plague Marines can take the charge better, where as Berserkers really need that charge. Sonic Blaster Noise Marines, it actually doesn't matter much since you can sit and shoot 3 times or move and shoot twice with the charge bonus.

[djkest]

I might ask him what kind of list he runs. Given my win/loss record, he might throw me a bone by cluing me in.

 

It actually sounds like it will be a pretty fun match! I'm going to be taking 3 Rhinos, a vindicator, and a Land Raider. If I had the model, I'd get another vindicator, since they work good in pairs / threes.