Screamers,

[Captain Malachi]

I've noticed a lot of contention on several forums on the effectiveness of screamers, and oddly I've been on both sides of the fence. I used to feel they were wasted points, until ==Me== showed me why they were good, but I'd like to open up a little discussion for you all to express your views, your thoughts on their tactical use in the daemon army and hopefully get people thinking about these little used guys. So yeah, discuss.

 

Edit- I'll throw out my thoughts later when a few people have had their chance.

[==Me==]

Screamers' usefulness depends greatly on the army you stick them in.

 

Initially, you would write off a small unit of fairly soft critters, but they are actually quite useful. They're cheap, move quickly, and have melta bombs strapped to their heads. Heavy tanks give Daemon armies no end of problems, and Screamers are one of your best bets against them. Even if the enemy moves his vehicles around to reduce your chances of hitting, that means their firepower is reduced and they may even move off a contested objective or into abad position.

 

On top of that, they can even tie weaker units down. T4, 4+ invulnerable and Fearless can keep them stuck in for a bit against your more inept combat units (stuff like Broadsides, IG heavy weapon teams, Dreadnoughts, and so on).

 

A cheap unit with a very specific role, exactly what it says on the tin.

[Argon]

Fluffwise, they're awesome. Just read Dark Apostle. Not sure where it is in the book (it's in another house), but I know it's closer to the end of the book, at the final battle. Wouldn't want to spoil it for the poor sods that haven't read the book. ^_^

[Raptor1313]

Either a cheap speedbump, or a guided missle that you'll have to hope the enemy doesn't shoot down before they get there.

 

Won't kill anything in melee, won't last long in melee. Don't solve the Dreadnought problem our army has. (We can....rend it with Khornate troops [HA!], rend it with Fiends, hope Soul Grinder I3 doesn't see it die before it can hit, and punch it out with an MC.)

[Dourine]

I've found them pretty good against dreads actually. Get a unit or two of 4 each in combat with the dread, While hitting on 3's, wounding on 2's, he still has to get through that 4+ invuln. I've had several experiences where screamers come into the combat to the rescue of a unit that is otherwise unable to take down walkers. This obviously doesn't work with walkers with 4 or more attacks, but basic dreads have about as much chance to win combat as a unit of 4 screamers in my mind.

[tomambrosio]

I have to respectfully disagree with some of the advice/perspectives given here.

 

I have played many games with my daemons (I use either a pure tzeentch or a mixed tzeentch/nurgle list -- I have about 5K points combined and have recently plaed a 4K point game) and I have found them practically useless every time I have ever used them. Maybe I haven't gotten lucky with them, but I wish they had done them differently.

 

I understand the need for anti-tank abilities for a daemon army (and therefore understand why they were modified from the 4.0 CSM codex), but I would like to have seen something a bit more flexible: for blowing up tanks they might work fine, but for everything else I have found them wanting.

 

To me, their only real use is to sit them behind some terrain and try to contest objectives at the end of the game.

[minigun762]

Either a cheap speedbump, or a guided missle that you'll have to hope the enemy doesn't shoot down before they get there.

 

I agree with this. They're a good counter to a Land Raider heavy army but thats about it. There is some question on whether they work or not on Monoliths (not going to get into that) and against Dreads they're hitting on 6's right, so thats not worthwhile.

 

Everything else, even other AV14 tanks have AV10 rear armor which means Daemonettes, Bloodletters, Fiends and anything thats an MC can kill it.

 

Even using them as a speedbump seems kinda wasteful when you have Flesh Hounds or Seekers which do the same job better.

[Captain Malachi]

Tomambrosio, just out of interest, what were you using them on? And how much other anti-tank do you have?

 

One thing I'd like to point out is that every single other anti-tank option we have is geared more towards killing infantry, and therefore it is subpar to use them against tanks. Also, screamers are gernerally overlooked by our opponents in favour of more immediate threats (i.e. soulgrinders, greater daemons etc). This is why screamers are so useful, they are actually focused enough to do what they do best without sacrificing anything.

[minigun762]

This is why screamers are so useful, they are actually focused enough to do what they do best without sacrificing anything.

 

Exactly, but since they only do one thing really well, the next question should be "can I do their job with something else thats more useful?"

 

I guess this comes down to the "specialist vs generalist" debate that always pops up for Warhammer. ^_^

[Captain Malachi]

True, a long standing debate, and normally I'm of the generalist view, but sometimes hacing something just right for the job is good, since it leaves your soulgrinders and bloodletters etc free to kill infantry, while your screamers run amok amongst his tanks.

[Raptor1313]

Though if the enemy's tanks start moving...

 

If the Land Raiders move...odds start looking grimmer. If the vehicle moves 12", then 1/2 of the screamers hit.

 

Each pen has a 33% chance of killing the vehicle, so you'd want to get at least 3 rolls on the damage table, which means 6 screamers. Each unit of screamers MIGHT kill a tank a turn.

 

AGainst Guard, yay! tanks that don't move. AGainst Tau, whose tanks move 6" a turn? Ow. Against Marines, whose Raiders move fast and kick out troops, probably won't do anything in enough time. The rest of their tanks are things we can just punch out.

 

I mean, in pure Tzeentch, I'd probably go for it, but with anything else, not sure I'd go for 'em, just because I've got to take them in lieu of something else.

[Captain Malachi]

If they're moving they aren't firing as well :blush: About the only tanks they really have trouble with are the crusader and the redeemer, but both of these are coming to us! Straight at our soulgrinders and greater daemons! Other tanks have to stay still to fire to full effect, and being jet bikes those tanks have to move full speed to escape, which means they likely aren't firing at all.