Bulywyf Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 What are the pros and cons going with attack bikes vs. Land Speeders? Let's say the attack bike w/MM and the Land Speeder w/MM HF. Points wise not much difference. I have never used attack bikes but it seems from the forums that these are preferred to speeders. Just wondering if someone could enlighten me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158223-attack-bikes-vs-land-speeders/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Well landspeeders cost more, but are tougher against most infantry based weapons. For instance they are immune to Str 3 and anyone but tau needs a 6 to glance at best. On the other hand they are the lowest AV vehicles available and thus are relatively easy to pop by anti tank guns. A single hit, especially with a minimum of +1 on the damage roll, can take them out. Attack bikes on the other hand have two wounds, and require str 10 to insta-kill. Thus in many situations they are potentially more resistant to AT fire. Also as they are cheaper your losing less of your army per hit. On the other hand their options for weaponry are comparatively limited and they can only take one gun per model. This is partially counterbalanced by the fact that they can support in close combat or tie up an opponent for a round, mayhap two, if need be. They can both travel up to 24"s and gain an invulnerable save. The bike actually gets the better of the two. Landspeeders on the other hand can completely ignore the intervening terrain, while bikes are less likely to be hurt if they have to go into the terrain. Cost. Landspeeders cost more per box, but the points you can get out of one of those boxes is easily twice as much as what you get out of a attack bike set. For the player on a budget, especially just starting off, attack bikes can simply be overpriced. Almost as bad as rhinos and drop pods. Alot of people dont take either. They say that attack bikes dont do enough for their price *in and out of game* and that landspeeders are to vulnerable. Ive played Eldar for over 10 years and always had success with AV 10's that had the speed to keep their hides intact. Sure, theyll go down easier than a predator.... but their flexability is IMHO quite worth it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158223-attack-bikes-vs-land-speeders/#findComment-1851717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulywyf Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 Str 10 to instant kill? I thought that you did not double the extra T you get for the bike. Therefore, leaving you with a str 8 instant kill? AM I reading the rules wrong? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158223-attack-bikes-vs-land-speeders/#findComment-1851732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 No thats my bad. They used to just be T5, without the perenthesis. Sorry. They still seem to hold up amazingly well to AT fire. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158223-attack-bikes-vs-land-speeders/#findComment-1851735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewolfpriest Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 they use to be toughness 5 without parenthesis? i dont remember when maybe on 2nd edition, but anyway, i prefer my speeders much more than the attack bikes, they are much resilent to fire and they dont suffer on HtH because of skimmers rules, best is having heavy bolter and assault cannon at least for me maximize fire power even when rendering rule is not as good as in 4th edition Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158223-attack-bikes-vs-land-speeders/#findComment-1851752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 You know suprisingly I have never had any land speeder in my SW armies. Never built any for them, Had loads in my Ultra army and my Ba army. Maybe when the new codex comes out I will Look into some for my wolves Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158223-attack-bikes-vs-land-speeders/#findComment-1851781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJumppanen Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Personaly, i think that now with new C:SM only way to take land speeder is to take those missile launchers. If you desire to have MM then take attack bikes, but otherwise take those missiles and stay far away from return fire. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158223-attack-bikes-vs-land-speeders/#findComment-1851874 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Depends on the build, for me I like my land speeders armed with HB / HB. They stay way back out of troop fire range moving 6" and firing both weapons, when you get 6 HBs shooting at anything on foot they are going to be causing some damage. Also they get the bonus of ignoring stunned results and flat out while ignoring terrian let's you get in close enough to shoot anything on the table on turn 2. For the MM I like my AB, Turbo Boost 24" to get within 30" of an armored target and since now you can turn corners during a TB you can be assured to get in cover, then another 12" on the next turn will usually get you close enough for a AP kill. Most times you will find the AB get ignored after a TB. No one likes to waste shots into such a unit including me. WG Vrox Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158223-attack-bikes-vs-land-speeders/#findComment-1851913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Guard Hengist Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 WG Vrox makes a good point, my Speeder is the last thing on the target priority list when there is a bunch of hairy arse Wolfguard and a Vindicator stomping around. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158223-attack-bikes-vs-land-speeders/#findComment-1851976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPetersson Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Well landspeeders cost more, but are tougher against most infantry based weapons. For instance they are immune to Str 3 and anyone but tau needs a 6 to glance at best. On the other hand they are the lowest AV vehicles available and thus are relatively easy to pop by anti tank guns. A single hit, especially with a minimum of +1 on the damage roll, can take them out. Where do you get the +1 from? It doesn't say in their description that they are open topped... And to stay on topic: I haven't used Attack Bikes yet, but I have used Land Speeders with great effect. 2x Heavy Bolters whittles down infantry quite well at a nice distance... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158223-attack-bikes-vs-land-speeders/#findComment-1851979 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Guard Hengist Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Now that you mention it I've just noticed that are not open topped, I always thought they were. Geesh talk about stiffing yourself in a battle :) Looking through the C:SM I now see that only the LS Storm is open topped, interesting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158223-attack-bikes-vs-land-speeders/#findComment-1852087 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPetersson Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Now that you mention it I've just noticed that are not open topped, I always thought they were. Geesh talk about stiffing yourself in a battle :) Looking through the C:SM I now see that only the LS Storm is open topped, interesting. In my last match, my opponent was asking me how they could possibly not be open topped when they are clearly modelled that way... Not my call to make, I just kneel before Zod... So yeah, LS is good, although I try to keep the units small so I can still shoot if I'm immobilised... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158223-attack-bikes-vs-land-speeders/#findComment-1852089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgad Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I remember back in, I think, 3rd edition, they were specifically not open-topped because of the marines controlling them. The power-armour is apparently tough enough to protect the inner workings of the speeder, thus making it not open-topped. I think it's in the 3rd ed. marine codex. Not sure though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158223-attack-bikes-vs-land-speeders/#findComment-1852119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
megamat008 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 In V4 I used to field 2 or 3 Land Speeder Tornados as they were more resilient and able to shoot two weapons even after moving 12". But now Land Speeders are even more fragile and almost forced to stay immobile in order to shoot effectively. Moreover attack bikes are a bit cheaper, and can be fielded in squadrons without losing effectiveness. I have bought 2 MM bikes and am eager to try them alongside my DP list with 3 Vindicators :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158223-attack-bikes-vs-land-speeders/#findComment-1852128 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deedark Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 10pts per model is a good saving for something that can achieve much the same I have 2 attack bikes to build now is the time I guess to finish them D. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158223-attack-bikes-vs-land-speeders/#findComment-1852240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Wolf Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Land Speeders: 24" Turbo Boost - 4+ Cover Can fly over Terrain Armor 10 Can carry two heavy weapons Can't assault can't shoot two weapons over 6" move Attack bikes 24" Turbo Boost - 3+ Cover Has to drive around terrain (impassable) Toughness 5, but has two wounds... One heavy weapon Can assault Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158223-attack-bikes-vs-land-speeders/#findComment-1852811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. A. K. Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 They are both a good choice but I prefer my MM bike for tank hunting now (the rest of my army can deal with most infantry models themselves). For all the reasons mentioned already and also the fact that they are a lot easier to hide behind/in terrain. I just don't like AV 10 without the 'only glancing' rule, not to mention that the ass cannon isn't as tough against vehicles either. Any anti-tank weapon will drop them like nothing and odds are you won't get any cover save if you wanted to shoot the turn before. G Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158223-attack-bikes-vs-land-speeders/#findComment-1853312 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 When I use a landspeeder its usually alone, with a single or a double multimelta, and I stay under cover, coming out only as much as needed to hit my target, and then go to the next bit of cover. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158223-attack-bikes-vs-land-speeders/#findComment-1853377 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Guard Hengist Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I think the Pros and Cons weight each other up and it goes down to exactly what you want. I for example know the Attackbike is a bit more resilient but I love the ability of the Speeder to zip over the terrain its been hiding behing to get to its target. Any other kill after the first target is gone is just a bonus anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158223-attack-bikes-vs-land-speeders/#findComment-1853492 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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