Oldenhaller Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 So shrike allows a unit to infiltrate with him...obvious issues with if they can combat squad or not but back onto the questions in point... 1 - can other IC's deploy with that unit - shrike gives it to the unit, they've joined the unit before deployment and are thus part of it as it's any unit he's deployed with? 2 - Can shrike infiltrate with his command squad of bikes and then bimble off on turn 1 to do what he like and they go there way I only ask as i was thinking this would be a spiffy way of getting lots of thunder hammers in one's opponent's grill with toughness 5, a 2+ save and FNP by addding techmarines and a master of the forge to said infiltrating unit...Cheese i tells yah!! ~O Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158436-more-shike/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthawks Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 1. no - the ability is granted to the unit to which he is attached, and infiltrate is not confered to ICs without the abilty joining a unit. in this case, the specific (shrikes rule) overides the general (infiltrate not confering between units and attached ICs) but the general still holds for other ICs. 2. yes - the unit attached to shrike gets infiltrate. he is an IC and may detatch in the movement phase. it matters nto what the unit type is, so long as they do not have a special rule that disallows infiltrate, specifically. (don't think that bikes do) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158436-more-shike/#findComment-1855167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldenhaller Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 see I'm not sure on the first point. The abilities of a unit do not confer to an indepenant charecter which joins them but if that character is already with that unit then he is considered part of it. Thus If shreik then joins them also the unit (i.e everyone attatched) infiltrate. Otherwise this would suggest that other special rules which convey to attatched characters would not work such as the apothecary's narcetheliumuiumumum. probabbly - still trying to work it through in my head... additionally infiltrating scout bikers could be interesting...lots of movement and your locator beacon exactly where you want it on turn 1, pretty much anywhere on the board. ~O Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158436-more-shike/#findComment-1855258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedric Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 1. Yes, any IC that joins the unit will be a part of it as long as the IC remains attatched. As such, Shirke will confer Infiltrate to the other IC as well. Shirke grants Infiltrate to the whole unit, in which the other IC is a part of. It is not a question about the unit itself giving the IC infiltrate, instead it is spelled out that the whole unit gains infiltrate. 2. Yes, you can deploy attatched and then have Shirke leave. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158436-more-shike/#findComment-1855278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthawks Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I think making #1 legal is pulling hairs. but everyone is entitled to their oppinion, and in lew of (and even in the face of, should they bother to release them) clarifications, GW asks that we use our judgement. I say no, you say yes, we dice it off and go from there. scout bikers can infiltrate without shrike. 'twould be a waste to attach him for that purpose... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158436-more-shike/#findComment-1855371 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedric Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Could you elaborate on why you think making #1 legal would be pulling hairs? It is clear that a normal unit with Infiltrate doesn't confer that USR to a joining IC. Shirke is different, however, as he grants Infiltrate to the unit he joins. "Unit" is unspecific in this case, as opposed to Sicarius, for example, that specifies Tac squad. It is also quite clear that an IC is part of said unit, as long as the IC fulfills certain criteria. The IC moves, shoots, assaults and otherwise acts as part of the unit. Why wouldn't the IC count as part of the unit in this case? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158436-more-shike/#findComment-1856131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Could you elaborate on why you think making #1 legal would be pulling hairs? It is clear that a normal unit with Infiltrate doesn't confer that USR to a joining IC. Shirke is different, however, as he grants Infiltrate to the unit he joins. "Unit" is unspecific in this case, as opposed to Sicarius, for example, that specifies Tac squad. It is also quite clear that an IC is part of said unit, as long as the IC fulfills certain criteria. The IC moves, shoots, assaults and otherwise acts as part of the unit. Why wouldn't the IC count as part of the unit in this case? It's ShRIke, dammit! :rolleyes: Nah, sorry if I offended you - a lot of people are very sensitive these days... But I can think of no reason people would say IC's can't infiltrate with them - Shrike's rule is an exception to the "Not conferred to IC's" because it specifically states unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158436-more-shike/#findComment-1856208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rat of vengence Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Could you elaborate on why you think making #1 legal would be pulling hairs? It is clear that a normal unit with Infiltrate doesn't confer that USR to a joining IC. Shirke is different, however, as he grants Infiltrate to the unit he joins. "Unit" is unspecific in this case, as opposed to Sicarius, for example, that specifies Tac squad. It is also quite clear that an IC is part of said unit, as long as the IC fulfills certain criteria. The IC moves, shoots, assaults and otherwise acts as part of the unit. Why wouldn't the IC count as part of the unit in this case? But take a unit of scouts. They have infiltrate, and I can't join Lysander to them and infiltrate! Shrike can infiltrate with a unit. It doesn't say with a unit and any other characters who decide to tag along. Just a unit. RoV Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158436-more-shike/#findComment-1856229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 But with Shrike it says he can infiltrate with a unit, but with anything else, it says THEY may infiltrate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158436-more-shike/#findComment-1856259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedric Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 But take a unit of scouts. They have infiltrate, and I can't join Lysander to them and infiltrate! Shrike can infiltrate with a unit. It doesn't say with a unit and any other characters who decide to tag along. Just a unit. RoV The reason you can't infiltrate Lysander with Scouts is that scouts don't give Lysander infiltrate. Simple. The rulebook lists what USR's that transfers and which do not. Shrike is a completely different cup of tea, his rule says that he and "models in his squad benefit from the infiltrate special rule." We all know that Codex > BRB, so Shrike's See but not be seen takes precedence. Look what happens if Shrike tag-teams with Lysander. Is Lysander a model? Check. Are they both part of Shrikes squad? Check. Shrike is also equally part of Lysander's squad and gets Bolter Drill, not that he has any weapon to make use of it, though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158436-more-shike/#findComment-1856306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldenhaller Posted January 24, 2009 Author Share Posted January 24, 2009 has a bolt pistol....and big metal talons to pull the trigger with :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158436-more-shike/#findComment-1856683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rat of vengence Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Well, on closer look at the codex, it says 'his unit' not 'a unit'. I went by the wordng people used in this thread rather than checking the codex myself. :blush: Since characters can join a unit before deployment, then you could join Shrike and another character to ther unit, and they infiltrate. My bad :ermm: RoV Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158436-more-shike/#findComment-1857117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExarPucc Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 So Shrike, Lysander, and 10 TH/SS termies anyone? That's a 13-18 inch threat on your first turn. With a whole lot of damage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158436-more-shike/#findComment-1859345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Chaos_Brute Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I have Shrike + 10 TH/SS in my planned Raven Guard list. Nasty-tastic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158436-more-shike/#findComment-1859904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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