minigun762 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 As some of you know, I'm a big fan of infantry heavy armies. I normally run with 10 more CSMs than what is considered "normal" for any given army size and I trust my rank and file to do the lion's share of the work. Because of that, I give almost every squad an Aspiring Champion of some sort with the possible exception of my twin Plasmagun squads. However more and more I'm looking at the points I spend and thinking they could be better used elsewhere, specifically with Terminators. Figure a normal Power Weapon Champion costs 50% more than a Power Weapon Terminators and a Power Fist Champion costs more than a third more. Of course you run into the whole issue of getting them into combat but point for point, its cheaper to go with Terminators. But does focusing all your Power Weapons/Fist in 1/2 squads end up costing you too much by weakening everything else? All this being said, I doubt I'd leave home without my Champions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158467-when-to-use-aspiring-champions/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbaron997 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 As convincing as the argument may be at time to not take them, I never would go into combat without mine. Only time I wouldnt take them is on Havocs...and then if I had the points I would take it just in case. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158467-when-to-use-aspiring-champions/#findComment-1855506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I find that I only use 1-2 in my lists. It's nice to have that odd fist or power weapon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158467-when-to-use-aspiring-champions/#findComment-1855514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Blackbone Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I've been playtesting with and without. I think I may actually paint a few that have those cool options like twin-linked bolters, combi-weapons and such. During a game, though, it makes me a lot more confident to charge in with a fist and meltabombs. - Blackbone Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158467-when-to-use-aspiring-champions/#findComment-1855733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 plasma gun squads in some pm builds like LR rush where 2 squads are ment for hth and two for double taping ,those rhino plasma squads can do without champions . terminators always without champions . 5 man raptor squads ment for anti tank and anti horde with 2 specials always without champions . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158467-when-to-use-aspiring-champions/#findComment-1855743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 plasma gun squads in some pm builds like LR rush where 2 squads are ment for hth and two for double taping ,those rhino plasma squads can do without champions . terminators always without champions . 5 man raptor squads ment for anti tank and anti horde with 2 specials always without champions . Specifically I was thinking about my 10 man CSMs squad with dual Flamers. They're geared for clearing out hordies or cover-huggers and in both cases a Power Weapon/Fist Champion is normally overkill due to the lowish T value or poor armor save. Plus using Icon of Chaos Glory spoils me for LD tests. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158467-when-to-use-aspiring-champions/#findComment-1855753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 hmmm i would 5 man raptors for anti horde , as much as troops are needed in the 5th , csm are a bit too slow to counter more then one unit per game [double that if the rhino gets stoped ] . this kind of a means you have to runs 2flamer/2melta squads and thats best used in a LR rush build , so in the end after testing one comes to the conclusion that its better to replace the csm squads with zerkers for faster unit breaking [DP charge +zerkers is enough for most normal squads] . but that was a bit offtopic . If I had to play flamer csm I would take asp champions , the range is really short and they will end up in hth and this means counter units and then its better to do as much damge against those as possible . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158467-when-to-use-aspiring-champions/#findComment-1856104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace of Gods Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Well, having the Champions also prduces another good result. Raising the LD for all is good, but carrying the icons to summon in the lesser demons to help contest or jump in and give that extra push against a troublsesome squad your locked in CC with, or to help clear an objective; Or even to use to summon i na greater demon, with more options and locations, since there is more of them all over the field. Plus, having a PF in each squad greatly increases your mobility and options for what squads can go where, and doesnt get you stuck in HTH with an opposing Defiler, or a Dreadnaught or the like. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158467-when-to-use-aspiring-champions/#findComment-1856269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 I think its easier for squad using Icon of Chaos Glory to get away without using a Champion because you're still testing on a very good Leadership. I ran the numbers before and LD9 reroll = LD11 and LD8 reroll = LD10 so it does help to compensate for no Champion Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158467-when-to-use-aspiring-champions/#findComment-1861616 Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsuicidekingx Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I think i almost always have one in the unit. I have way too much hand to hand going on not to have that power weapon to help me out. Even my havocs. they seem to get charged far too much. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158467-when-to-use-aspiring-champions/#findComment-1861927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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