Grey Mage Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 So that link only showed what an Apedticon ruled on the issue, nothing in a FAQ states this. There are stats for the AC in the SW codex and it would be in the best frame of mind to utilize this until there is an update. I do not know if the AC is in Italics (no book with me right now), but I would generously concede a win for anyone playing this way, hands down. It is clearly not balanced and I would think any honest/hard working SW player would hopefully think this as well. The fact my DeathWing army has to have 15 Terminators to equal the amount of heavy weapons 1 Space Wolf squad can have is not balanced (and seeing how a BS5 model can have one does not sit well). So please let me know if the AC is in Italics before I get home to check and either continue this debate or appologise for being misinformed. *Edit [Rant] Ok just checked up on this and my Wolves go back in the box due to myself feeling disgusted at how very powerful they have become. They will be waiting for a newer, hopefully a bit neutered Codex later this year. I truelly hope you all are paying 30 points for the AC since that is the cost in the Space Marine codex. There is no point gaining all the positives, but ignoring the cost since it is coming from Space Marines. I mean, you are not using the Hvy 3 anymore, thusly you pay the Space Marine codex price for it. I do hope when a DW asks if he/she can use wargear in the Space Marine book that Wolves allow this, if not, please refer to their craptacular FAQ regarding the real spirit of the game and how this is a severe blow to them (and other armies using wargear with the same name, but different stats). This truelly is a sad day and I hope people actually do realize that their opponent is also supposed to have fun and not just be the punching bag in a one way battle. This smells of WAAC to me and I know deep down Wolves do not stoop to that level. [End Rant] After all that was said, I do appologize for this missight. Well I dont know about the rest of these boys, but against any other marine player I insist they use the profiles from the new codex.... and chaos landraiders can transport 12 models too. As for it being overpowered? Bollocks to that. Its a large chunk of an army any way you put it. As for you needing 15 Deathwing to get that kind of firepower Ill note a number of people say deathwing is cheesy because you can mix CC termies and Ranged Termies. I dont care. Its been balanced the few times Ive played it. I havent seen a huge imbalance with my squads firepower, or their CC potential either for that matter. They are tough as hell though. If you find that one unbalancing Id be open to persuasion and pay 10/15pts for runic charms. Sorry Vrox I dont know if you have misunderstood what I meant. I meant to say that I dont take 3 Assault Cannons in my Wolf Guard unit because it can be seen around here as a tad bit unfriendly so tend to mix up the weapons I give them. Of Course its opne season when it comes to Apoc. Theres a number of unfriendly things out there... I dont consider this one of them. But then, your group may be very very "polite" and you can play how you want. Id argue that 3 cyclones is much much worse. But in the end I believe one thing I always say covers both of these situations: If you have it, bring it, and I will kill it. That goes for playing as Wolves, Eldar, or even Hello Kitty. As long as point values are equivilant it should be a good match. And yeah, that includes forgeworld too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158612-your-best-wgbl-bodyguard-terminator-loadouts/page/2/#findComment-1863271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Sorry Vrox I dont know if you have misunderstood what I meant. I meant to say that I dont take 3 Assault Cannons in my Wolf Guard unit because it can be seen around here as a tad bit unfriendly so tend to mix up the weapons I give them. Of Course its opne season when it comes to Apoc. ahh, got ya. darn that auto skim program I am running... I find that a SS/CF for the WGBL fits my needs better than a 3rd AC in my lists. My local haunt would frown upon the 3 AC build, but they will still want a game. WG Vrox Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158612-your-best-wgbl-bodyguard-terminator-loadouts/page/2/#findComment-1863305 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 [Rant] Ok just checked up on this and my Wolves go back in the box due to myself feeling disgusted at how very powerful they have become. They will be waiting for a newer, hopefully a bit neutered Codex later this year. I truelly hope you all are paying 30 points for the AC since that is the cost in the Space Marine codex. There is no point gaining all the positives, but ignoring the cost since it is coming from Space Marines. I mean, you are not using the Hvy 3 anymore, thusly you pay the Space Marine codex price for it. I do hope when a DW asks if he/she can use wargear in the Space Marine book that Wolves allow this, if not, please refer to their craptacular FAQ regarding the real spirit of the game and how this is a severe blow to them (and other armies using wargear with the same name, but different stats). This truelly is a sad day and I hope people actually do realize that their opponent is also supposed to have fun and not just be the punching bag in a one way battle. This smells of WAAC to me and I know deep down Wolves do not stoop to that level. [End Rant] i'd love to play you this way by using my reference sheet=) anyday! non overheating plasma weapons for the win! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158612-your-best-wgbl-bodyguard-terminator-loadouts/page/2/#findComment-1863379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 ok, ran the numbers and that is.... rdy... for a 1750 list you can run 9 GH squads 3 scout squads and 3 WGBLs. 24 plasma pistols 12 plasma guns 3 plasma cannons LOL, bring on the pain. WG Vrox Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158612-your-best-wgbl-bodyguard-terminator-loadouts/page/2/#findComment-1863438 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPetersson Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 ok, ran the numbers and that is.... rdy... for a 1750 list you can run 9 GH squads 3 scout squads and 3 WGBLs. Except, you can only have up to 6 troop choices... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158612-your-best-wgbl-bodyguard-terminator-loadouts/page/2/#findComment-1863449 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 True enough, so throw in a vendread elites, and a couple of longfang packs with lascannons for the anti tank. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158612-your-best-wgbl-bodyguard-terminator-loadouts/page/2/#findComment-1863451 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 warning :lol: Posted my best 1850 plasma list in army list section for a laugh WG Vrox Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158612-your-best-wgbl-bodyguard-terminator-loadouts/page/2/#findComment-1863518 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Remember that WGBG count as a true retinue so: IC counts as an upgrade character and cannot be singled out in close combat. Here is my optimal squad: WGBL/terminator armor, thunder hammer, storm shield, cyclone missile launcher, wolf tooth necklace, 2x Fenrisian wolves WGBG #1/terminator armor, chain fist, storm shield, wolf tooth necklace, cyclone missile launcher WGBG #2/terminator armor, chain fist, storm shield, wolf tooth necklace, cyclone missile launcher WGBG #3/terminator armor, power fist, storm shield, wolf tooth necklace WGBG #4/terminator armor, power fist, storm shield, wolf tooth necklace I would also give each terminator including the leader a runic charm and give the wolf tail talisman. If roll a 6 for any of the talisman then the entire squad can ignore enemy psychic powers such as lash. The two wolves count as ablative wounds so you can assign power fist/power klaw attacks to them first before you start using the storm shields. Their transport would be an LRC with extra armor and a multi-melta. This unit could go toe to toe with nob bikers. 0b :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158612-your-best-wgbl-bodyguard-terminator-loadouts/page/2/#findComment-1863529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Actually its only lash that does that.... and its nothing to do with it being a psychic power. Its that you always move at the speed of the slowest member of the unit- thus if one person doesnt move, none of them move. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158612-your-best-wgbl-bodyguard-terminator-loadouts/page/2/#findComment-1863531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I said 'such as lash' which would also include pavane. 0b Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158612-your-best-wgbl-bodyguard-terminator-loadouts/page/2/#findComment-1863548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bran Scalphunter Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 My Wolf Guard Pack of Doom is as such: WGBL- TDA, AC, RC, WP, FB WG- AC, TDA, RC, WP, PW WG- AC, TDA, RC, WP, PW WG- Combi-Plasma, LC, TDA, RC, WP WG- Combi-Plasma, LC, TDA, RC, WP WG- Combi-Plasma, LC, TDA, RC, WP With Drop Pod Assault, slam down in front of enemy and go "Ha ha ha! dakka dakka dakka!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158612-your-best-wgbl-bodyguard-terminator-loadouts/page/2/#findComment-1863623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Hey Bran, how come no powerfists/thunderhammers/et al? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158612-your-best-wgbl-bodyguard-terminator-loadouts/page/2/#findComment-1863627 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bran Scalphunter Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 To be truthful, I've never actually faced anything that really survived the initial blast of plasma and lead. I should change that though, probably make the AC WG into AC/PF instead of PW. Worst I ever had was a big Boyz mob loose like 15 boyz, stand, then charge me next turn. He didn't win, but he did manage to take one CP/LC Wolf Guard down. Call me lucky I guess. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158612-your-best-wgbl-bodyguard-terminator-loadouts/page/2/#findComment-1863631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPetersson Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Sorry for the thread necromancy, but I've been trying out this config lately: WGBL - AssCannon\LC\TDA WGBG - AssCannon\PF\TDA WGBG - AssCannon\PF\TDA WGBG - AssCannon\PF\TDA WGBG - LC\SS\PA WGBG - LC\SS\PA WGBG - LC\SS\PA WGBG - LC\SS\PA Drop Pod And obviously the usual RC\WTN\WP\WTT if you want. I was a bit upset to see that termies can't take Mastercrafted. How sweet would that be :-D I used it with my opponents permission: In one game they got annihilated by two Vindicators :-/ In the next game they dominated nearly two thirds of the table. And in last night's game (against an annoying cheater) they shot a Hive Tyrant + Guards up pretty bad (With a bit of help) and then took the Hive Tyrant + 1 guard +3 Warriors on in CC and Annihilated them (Except for 1 Warrior who had 1 wound left). And then took on a carnifex. They were also shot at and in total two PA WGBGs died... Ludicrously overpowered, but I'm definitely taking this when my opponent says 'Anything goes' or 'Bring the Pain' :blink: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158612-your-best-wgbl-bodyguard-terminator-loadouts/page/2/#findComment-2003803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimfoe Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Not sure why none of us are using a Wolf Priest. They seem awfully good. I'm working on a model now that has a Frost Blade and a Combi-Melta. I think he'll do well with a Retinue Squad. In fact, how about this: WP, TDA, Frost Blade/Combi Melta WGBL Assault Cannon/FB WGBG Assault Cannon/PF WGBG Assault Cannon/PF WGBG TH/SS WGBG TH/SS All with the necessary pelts, necklaces and Runic Charms. That'll leave a mark. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158612-your-best-wgbl-bodyguard-terminator-loadouts/page/2/#findComment-2003837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPetersson Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Not sure why none of us are using a Wolf Priest. They seem awfully good. I'm working on a model now that has a Frost Blade and a Combi-Melta. I think he'll do well with a Retinue Squad. In fact, how about this: WP, TDA, Frost Blade/Combi Melta WGBL Assault Cannon/FB WGBG Assault Cannon/PF WGBG Assault Cannon/PF WGBG TH/SS WGBG TH/SS All with the necessary pelts, necklaces and Runic Charms. That'll leave a mark. I haven't put a WP in beecause it takes an AC away from a unit that's designed to bring pain from a distance. Well, it is for me any way. also, for me the point of the WP is to get HB&P which you can't in that pod there... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158612-your-best-wgbl-bodyguard-terminator-loadouts/page/2/#findComment-2003909 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimfoe Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Not sure why none of us are using a Wolf Priest. They seem awfully good. I'm working on a model now that has a Frost Blade and a Combi-Melta. I think he'll do well with a Retinue Squad. In fact, how about this: WP, TDA, Frost Blade/Combi Melta WGBL Assault Cannon/FB WGBG Assault Cannon/PF WGBG Assault Cannon/PF WGBG TH/SS WGBG TH/SS All with the necessary pelts, necklaces and Runic Charms. That'll leave a mark. I haven't put a WP in beecause it takes an AC away from a unit that's designed to bring pain from a distance. Well, it is for me any way. also, for me the point of the WP is to get HB&P which you can't in that pod there... True, but it does give an unmodified save for your HQ that's only a little worse than the SS while still allowing a nice weapon like the combi plas, or combi melta. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158612-your-best-wgbl-bodyguard-terminator-loadouts/page/2/#findComment-2003951 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyInDeath Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Not sure why none of us are using a Wolf Priest. They seem awfully good. I'm working on a model now that has a Frost Blade and a Combi-Melta. I think he'll do well with a Retinue Squad. In fact, how about this: WP, TDA, Frost Blade/Combi Melta WGBL Assault Cannon/FB WGBG Assault Cannon/PF WGBG Assault Cannon/PF WGBG TH/SS WGBG TH/SS All with the necessary pelts, necklaces and Runic Charms. That'll leave a mark. As Peterson said, the WGBL gives you a chance to add in an extra AC. Also, the list that you posted would not be able to take 3 AC's. 1:3, rounding up, hence the 3 BG in TDA and 4 in PA for the "Drop pod of doom". Personally, I would keep the WP for a really nasty CC termie pack or a good ol pack of BC bikers (a free 30 pt ablative wound per turn is nothing to scoff at). That said, I know people on this forum have THE biggest spot in thier hearts for AC's, and of course i cannot blame them whatsoever. That being said, I am really really tempted to try out 4 CML's in a drop pod of doom....you are talking 8 (!) krak missiles or frag missiles (that's right, 8 small templates into that squishy lil unit...) per turn, plus all four can technically take a SB with the weapons, giving it even MORE punch against horde lists. That said, it would come up a bit light on the CC front, so they would have to drop in a lil further away then you would w/ a pod'o'doom. Would be a rather fun Apoc game to be able to bust out 1 of each of these pods... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158612-your-best-wgbl-bodyguard-terminator-loadouts/page/2/#findComment-2003960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 If your going to go CMLs why even bother with a drop pod.... just walk them on. Theyll have the range to get the job done. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158612-your-best-wgbl-bodyguard-terminator-loadouts/page/2/#findComment-2003974 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyInDeath Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Too true, too true.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158612-your-best-wgbl-bodyguard-terminator-loadouts/page/2/#findComment-2004008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 If your thinking of running 3 or 4 CML in a retinue, you can alway add the Wolf Priest to the WGBL retinue, give him HB&P add 2 or 3 SSs to the pack and you now have a very very tough pack with some serious fire power. Just make sure you roll all your invol saves first, this way if you miss a 3+ save, it is the first missed save and can be ignored, then you can move on to your 2+ saves from there. I have ran the above pack with my WGBL in TDA w/ CML/FB and 2 CML/PF 2 SS/SB 1WP w/ 2 Wolves RC all around. Huge point sink but I would just just pray my oppenent would focus mass amouts of fire power into the pack, as they seemed able to take anything thrown at them. I just stayed away from Vindis and all was good. I stopped running them after it became clear to me I was upsetting my local gamers and getting known for the pack, gotta keep one step ahead of them ya know. I now run them w/o the WP same CML/FB on the WGBL and 2 AC/PF 2 SB/SS, much cheaper and tamed down pack that comes in at 350, not bad considering you would have to have 2 dreads at 225 each to dish out the same fire power. WG Vrox. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158612-your-best-wgbl-bodyguard-terminator-loadouts/page/2/#findComment-2004089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Admittedly our points are a bit off at the minute but this counters for the fact that our Grey Hunters are slightly expensive for what you get. I also never use 3 assault cannons in a unit. I used to run an assault cannon and cyclone missile launcher but was told the CML was useless and ripped him apart. The reason I now use two assault cannons in a squad is becuase I'm paying 30 points for a terminator without any weapons and Space Wolves need all the firepower they can get their hands on. However if they made it one per 5 men then I would not complain at this. But I do want to try assault cannon spam before we get a new codex. My WGBL/WGBG is as follows WGBL TDA Frost Blade Runic Charm Storm Bolter Belt of Russ WGBG TDA 4 Chainfists (I know) 2 Assault Cannons 2 Storm Bolters Runic Charm A fairly cheap but effective unit. My main use of termies is with Ragnar, Rune Priest and Great Company banner in apoc. The terminator unit is 530 points by itself plus two ICs and a LRC. It hurts a lot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158612-your-best-wgbl-bodyguard-terminator-loadouts/page/2/#findComment-2004094 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Indeed... a codex terminator with an assault cannon is 70pts, also has a powerfist. A wolf gaurd terminator with an assault cannon and powerfist is 65pts, but can only taken in a command squad style. 70pts with runic charm. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158612-your-best-wgbl-bodyguard-terminator-loadouts/page/2/#findComment-2004134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPetersson Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 If your thinking of running 3 or 4 CML in a retinue, you can alway add the Wolf Priest to the WGBL retinue, give him HB&P add 2 or 3 SSs to the pack and you now have a very very tough pack with some serious fire power. Just make sure you roll all your invol saves first, this way if you miss a 3+ save, it is the first missed save and can be ignored, then you can move on to your 2+ saves from there. WG Vrox. HP&B doesn't allow you to ignore a failed invul save, only a failed armour save... If I wanted to do a 'CML of Doom' unit, I'd still take a WGBL for the extra CML. I would totally save the WP for a CC squad... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158612-your-best-wgbl-bodyguard-terminator-loadouts/page/2/#findComment-2004206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Why? He cant use HP+B in CC if hes capable of attacking.... Also, he can use it on an invulnerable save- the wording is "first failed saving throw" it doesnt mention wich kind. Unless you dont make saving throws for invulnerable saves? I would think that very silly of you though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158612-your-best-wgbl-bodyguard-terminator-loadouts/page/2/#findComment-2004258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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