Going on a bug hunt!

[Captain Cabble]

Hey again everyone, gonna be facing off against the local GW stores Tyranid army this week and as always when facing a new foe for the first time I thought I'd get on here and seek some advice from those with experience playing against them.

 

I'll be using my marines and will be facing around 1500 points of Tyranids, have no idea what I expect to be in the army but I guess that being the store army there'll be a little of everything.

 

Not sure what I plan on taking yet but I am thinking this may be a good time to dust off my landspeeders for this game as I don't expect to be facing a great deal of firepower and think the assault cannon/heavy bolter combo, while expensive, could do some serious damage, and having not yet used them since I've started playing 5th edition I've been itching to get them on the board.

 

So, as always, any and all thoughts welcome.

 

Thanks, CC.

[Koremu]

Boltguns. Lots of Boltguns.

 

Sternguard are especially good.

[Captain Cabble]

lol...

 

I'm part way through painting some sternguard actually as you mention them, 5 with bolters and the sergeant with a powerfist aswell, so they a top of my list as they're shiny and new and begging to be used.

 

As for what else to use I'm not sure - I'm thinking about the landspeeders as they will tear units up and always be able to keep out of charge range, and I don't see the nids as a force that will cause me to worry about having them shot down, but having not played against them I'm really not to sure.

 

Been thinking about using the stores Landraider redeemer, if i can keep it clear of any carnifexes on the table it could cause huge casualties.

[greatcrusade08]

Template weapons like heavy flamers will do very well at nuking bugs...

 

I also second Koremu with bolters, dont specialise and upgrade too much, i know people say take fists incase of fexes but they are a waste against a genestealer horde...

 

The redeemer or crusader should do well, but MC's do 2D6 + strength pen, so watch out for all MC's not just fexes

 

GC08

[Stargazer]

take a stupid amount of famers and i know this sems like a strange suggestion but against things like gaunts assault them instead of letting them assault you that way they only get 1 attack each. but obviousy don't do this against combat monsters like 'stealers, against these guys shoot them to hell before they get anywhere near your lines

 

Also ignore most of the big things like carnifexes as they are much slower moving than the rest of the army and you should have plenty of time to wipe them out after dealing with the faster stuff

[Captain Cabble]

To GC08 - what else in the Nid list is classed as a MC? I don't have the codex so have no idea, I'm assuming Hive Tyrants and maybe Lictors, anything else?

[greatcrusade08]

To GC08 - what else in the Nid list is classed as a MC? I don't have the codex so have no idea, I'm assuming Hive Tyrants and maybe Lictors, anything else?

 

Hive tyrants, Lictors, Carnifexes i dont think there are any more!!

Careful with the tyrants they can have wings and have really high Initiative for first stike...

 

GC08

[Captain Malachi]

Just carnis and tyrants, lictors are big buggers, but not MC big.

 

Bolters are a solid choice, as are flamers, meltas are gernerally a no-no, they can get wounds on carnis, but so can a plasmagun, which has twice the range and shots. For your heavy weapons, missile launchers (frag blasts kill bugs quick), heavy bolters and plasma cannons all work well, lascannons are too specialised against tanks and multimeltas don't have the range or killing power to make them worth it against 'nids.

 

Take lots of tactical marines, since it's a store army you won't face too many stealers, so your tacs will actually survive to shoot something. I find a dakka pred is usually a solid investment against nids, most of their guns can't kill it and you have enough shots to do some serious damage. A sternguard squad or two wouldn't be a bad investment either.

 

On what Stargazer said, I often find it worth it to assault when in range anyway. Yes, you won't get that extra round of shooting in, but you get an extra attack and deny them the extra attack, usually worth it in my opinion, unless you're in cover of course.

[Koremu]

A Captain with Hellfire Rounds plus a Command Squad with Plasma Guns is a the big game hunting unit of choice, IMO.

 

Hellfire Ammunition all over is very good here, obviously.

 

Also, Dreadnoughts. They make excellent Tar Pits to engage and delay 'nid infantry.

[Captain Cabble]

Koremu: I was thinking of taking a couple of basic dreads to sit ahead of my gunlineand tie up units in combat but I'm wondering what in a nid force will actually be able to take them down.

 

I only ask as I don't have access to the codex so I can't thumb through and work out what to avoid, and what to slaughter!

 

Thanks, CC

[Stargazer]

monstrous creatures can hurt them so can 'stealers if they rend but if there aren't that many of them and you charge them then you shoud be alright. also look out for things like warriors or ravenors with rending claws. however none of the small bugs can touch it in combat but be careful because if it is tied in combat it cant run away from things like carnifexes.

 

Maybe use them for finishing off units that have already been shot to death allowing the rest of your gunline to avoid being tied in combat.

[Captain Cabble]

Good call stargazer, thanks.

[Chaplain Octavian]

I agree with the dakka pred for taking out large hordes, and a dread with a Twin linked heavy flamer might do wonders against hordes of smaller nids. maybe some assult termies to deep strike and deal with genestealers and any nastier HQs and flamers, lots of flamers

[Koremu]

The Assault Cannon is flexible and generally can hurt MCs, as well as chew through Infantry.

 

On another note, the Thunderfire cannon for slowing the 'nids down is very worthwhile, and the rarity of 'nid firepower means that if they do target the cannon, they aren't targetting a Dreadnought or Predator.

[Marlow]

I was thinking of taking a couple of basic dreads to sit ahead of my gunlineand tie up units in combat

Spend those few extra points on the Dread to give it an Assault Cannon or Plasma Cannon as the Multi-Melta is not going to do a lot to 'nids.

[RandomGuy]

Well when fighting nids I was taught there are 4 major things to remember...

-Refuse flank the nids- They are a horde list and if they are concentrated in one area then you will hit more with blast weapons, and they will get in each other's way

-You have an 11" deployment zone when playing pitched battle. Some nids can assault you in turn 1 if you deploy max distance onto the table and if they think you are in range they will go for it.

-Kill the Synapse, without it most of the little bugs will run.

-If something sounds too good to be true check it with the codex/army list.

 

If you are looking for decent things in army builds, take tanks. Rhino's are your friends. Nids have very little ranged anti tank and rely very much on combat to take down vehicles. But if they do they can't consolidate and so will be in a nice bunch for flaming and in the open. Nids saves are non-existent, to all but a few marines weapons.

 

Oh and if you are playing objective capturing kill the genestealers. They are the only effective troops choice the nids have for taking objectives. Gaunts have to pass a leadership test on leadership 5 to score an objective... Not terribly likely.

 

Random Guy

[Tanthius]

Gaunts have to pass a leadership test on leadership 5 to score an objective... Not terribly likely.

 

What? :lol:

[Sgt. Corallis]

Gaunts have to pass a leadership test on leadership 5 to score an objective... Not terribly likely.

 

Random Guy

 

No they don't. Only if they are out of synapse.

[RandomGuy]

No they don't. Only if they are out of synapse.

 

I'm assuming that you have killed the synapse, since it was my 3rd point. Sorry if my point was unclear. Kill all synapse and genestealers, then the tyranids have next to no scoring units.

 

Hope that's cleared up

 

Random Guy

[Captain Malachi]

Unfortunately, it really isn't that simple. Not only are the synapse creatures the tougher ones, but they are usually screened by a wave of gaunts, providing constant cover saves.

[Jackelope King]

Classic, shooty terminators are your friend against nids. Stormbolters can shred little bugs from a healthy range (well outside of what's assaultable for genestealers), and assault cannons / cylone launchers just sweeten the deal by letting you target not just broods of gaunts and genestealers, but also enable you to throw Krak missiles and / or rends at big bugs. Then you've got power fists for when a big bug closes with you. They just multitask so well. Admittedly, TH/SS assault terminators are better in melee against the big bugs, but simple shooty terminators can just do a lot versus a lot of what Tyranids will often field. A squad of 10 of these guys runs 400 points before special weapons, but it's a darn effective unit.

[mega_marines]

Now, I'm going to reply directly to 'ya. I face Tyranids nearly everyday at my local GW, and what makes it better is that most of the ones I play against are Hive Fleet Behemoth! To make matters even more odd, I play my Ultramarines! In the course of my 8 year experience against Tyranids, a few options stand out against them when taking weapon choices.

 

Land Raider Crusader: This unit is insane against Tyranids, the entire race that is. It tears up basic Gaunt squads, makes Genestealers run away from it, runs over Warriors, and calls for the Big Bugs to kill it. Best part is, it kills the big ones just as easy when you think about it. Say hello to Rending! Load it up with the Multi-Melta upgrade and Extra Armor and you're ready to go to town on the bugs. The massed fire this baby puts out is immense and will usually kill a good average every turn if you use it right. Surprisingly one of the few best vehicles against Tyranids considering it can actually damage every single unit they have. Best vehicle choice to use. I nearly use them every game.

 

Sternguard: By The Emperor! This unit is insanity! Nearly as versatile as the Land Raider Crusader as these bastards pack a mean punch! Equip a few with Combi-Flamers, line up, and let the bullets fly! With their basic armament these guys are even ready to go, as they can spell disaster for any Monstrous Creature using their Hellfire rounds. If you feel like even being a bit riskier, you can use Vengeance Rounds to give them a scare! I have had yet one game where they fail to perform. Use them strictly as a Counter Assault unit, or in Spearhead Assaults from vehicles such as the for mentioned Land Raider Crusader for the deadliest 'Nid killer of all. Also the best Infantry unit in the game to kill nasty units with.

 

Vindicator: Oh boy, I love this tank. Throwing out the "Pie Plate Of Doom" every turn is fantastic. Best Swarm Killer if I have ever seen one, and not to shabby at knocking off wounds of big bugs nearby. If you need that swarm of 32 Gaunts reduced, employ the Vindicator. It's nicknamed "The Emperors Hammer" at our store, considering whatever it hits, is smashed! Look no further for swarm killers in the style of Ordnance.

 

Vanguard: Another good unit. A bit more limited though despite Jump Pack options. Use them for quick insertions and melee fights you know you can finish in that turn or the Tyranid Combat phase, or they're as good as dead. This goes for them on foot as well. Give them the stereotypical armament of a Relic Blade and some Power Power Weapons(Possibly even a Thunder Hammer and such) and launch them at a unit where you know you'll succeed. Also, your best chances are to make your Vanguard unit maxed out at ten models as well. You'll never know when it'll help. I mainly use them as a Counter Attack or as a move I call "Blockade". It's when I see an enemy unit I know I can't kill just yet, and will throw the entire kitchen sink at them in the Assault Phase. But, I only do that when I run out of options, and very rarely will that happen. Overall, this unit quite good at killing 'Nids, but not the best infantry unit for the job.

 

Land Raider Redeemer: I haven't had as much time as the other units to test this unit out, but it seemed pretty damned good to me when I used it. It's obviously an Offensive unit, and should be used as that. What it's best at, from what I've seen is delivering units into the fray. I like to use it as fore mentioned Transport with some kick to it. Essentially, it drives up to a swarm, drops it's unit out, unloads on the swarm, and the unit drops off finishes it off. Rinse and Repeat. Obviously there are other ways to use it, but that's all the experience I've had with this killer. Seems pretty worth it though. Especially if your army is geared for Assault Goodness.

 

Razorback: I wrap up this list with the humble Razorback. Don't let the simplicity of this Transport fool you either, it's got the angry war spirit of a lion in it! Even with it standard armament this vehicle has kick to it. Now, with even better swarm killing and MEQ killing options, it becomes a perfect gunboat. I've had particular success using the weapons in the following order. Twin-Linked Assault Cannons, Lascannon/Twin-Linked Plasma Gun, Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters, and Twin-Linked Heavy Flamers. Though it doesn't seem like much at all at first glance, it is truly one of the most potent weapons you can use. When given to a squad such as Sternguard, Devastators, or the basic Tactical unit, they provide the much desired ability to add more variety into the spice of death. One particular favorite of mine is getting a Sternguard unit of 5 with a Power Weapon, Melta Bombs, and two Combi-Flamers and tossing them in a Razorback with Twin-Linked Assault Cannons. It's absolutely deadly against swarm units as it takes down their numbers ridiculously quick and quite possibly the wounds of a Monstrous Creature even faster. Give this little warrior Extra Armor as well and you're in business! I rate this Transport right up there with the Land Raider Crusader when used appropriately.

 

That's pretty much my list against them, go ahead and try some out.

[Captain Cabble]

Nice post mega_marines, I'll have a think about those points before I throw a list together later tonight - am starting to lean towards using the redeemer and 2 vindicators as heavy choices plus 5 stern guard for the first time, then see what else i can fit into the list after a good core of tacticals.

 

It'll be a change in style to what I'm used to as I like to take the fight to the enemy but against nids I guess blast them while the advance is way more sensible.

[danny-d-b]

I've had a lot of fun against nids with a terminator assalt squad with thunderhammers and storm shileds, just right for takeing out MCs

 

don't be scared to get in combat with them

 

I'd also take some speeders as there great for takeing out birovires which can realy hurt marrine armys

[mega_marines]

In my mind what I've learned against Tyranids is to simply wait it out before they get close enough and then launch a counter assault and the like to thin their numbers before they hit. As posted before, don't be afraid to get into combat with them, but try to only do so when you've thinned their numbers quite a bit or knocked down enough wounds. Master the strategy of the Counter-Attack and you'll survive quite a lot more. My only suggestion otherwise is to get a Land Raider or two out on his flank and just hose the 'Nids with fire. If a a Carnifex or the like gets to close, gun it out of there and have your backup take it down, such a Sternguard, Devastators, or just loaded up Tactical Squads. Whatever works for you.