My 2000pt List vs Chaos Space Marines

[Blitzkrieg861]

I've played a couple games against a friend and he uses a similar army each time with a few change ups. I'm still trying to figure out my army and he definately has an experience advantage over me, but I think I can beat him if I just play a few more and tweek my list.

 

He generally takes a list like this.

 

EDIT: Forgot to mention we're playing 2000pts

 

2 Units of 10 Bezerkers, Sergeant has a Power Fist and they ride a Rhino

2 Defilers, with that big blast cannon and some CCWs

1-2 Dreadnaughts

sometimes some Termies

usually an Obi

1-2 Demon Princes

and some piddly 5-10 man plain old demon units

 

I took this list last Saturday and did fairly well until about bottom of 3rd, then things went sideways...

 

Captain with Power Sword

Kayvaan Shrike

 

3 units 10 Tac Marines with 1 Plasmagun, 1 Rocket Launcher and 1 Power Weapon

5 Scouts with Locater Beacon

1 Speeder with Assault Cannon and Multi-Melta

10 Assault Marines with 1 Power Weapon

Predator with Autocannon, Storm Bolter and Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Predator with Twin-Linked Lascannon and Lascannon Sponsons

Dreadnaught with Twin-Linked Lascannon and Rocket Launcher

Dreadnaught with Multi-Melta and CCW

5 Terminators

 

I like the idea of Shrike, but even with a unit like him I cant really use him to jump on a Defiler right away, I need 6's to hit that damn thing. Not a very good chance. Most his other stuff Deep Strikes or I guess there's the Rhinos. But if I assault them and blow it up, then he gets a solid charge on me on his turn. Seems pointless. Am I missing something I could be doing with a unit like that?

 

I was thinking of dropping something to add Sternguard as their AP3 shot could really do some damage. Maybe dropping Kayvaan to get another Captain and give them both Relic Blades for some added assault awesomeness. I know I have a Dakka Pred in there and yeah it honestly isn't that great against this army, but I do want it to be good against other armies too, not specificly for just him. I could justify it if I used the point to help me get a Sternguard unit. I think also I need more fast movers but I really only have 3 Attack Bikes with Heavy Bolters, they cant do all too much to his army, especially not the armored units.

 

Usually what I've been doing is trying to divide the table on an angle and kinda press forward very slowly. I usually leave the tac marines alone and let them shoot as the enemy gets close, dropping missiles all the while. I haven't tried combat squading them but I will on the next game. I try to park my lascannons and let them force his army to me. Essentially, I'm trying to weaken him and then assault with my biggest assault units... which are pretty sad looking. If I had more fast movers I think I could get his flanks better and force more confusion and division of his forces. But then I'd have to buy more guys...

 

Do you guys have any suggestions on what I should do to combat this army? What I could change out for better chances?

[minigun762]

Captain with Power Sword

Kayvaan Shrike

 

3 units 10 Tac Marines with 1 Plasmagun, 1 Rocket Launcher and 1 Power Weapon

5 Scouts with Locater Beacon

1 Speeder with Assault Cannon and Multi-Melta

10 Assault Marines with 1 Power Weapon

Predator with Autocannon, Storm Bolter and Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Predator with Twin-Linked Lascannon and Lascannon Sponsons

Dreadnaught with Twin-Linked Lascannon and Rocket Launcher

Dreadnaught with Multi-Melta and CCW

5 Terminators

 

Hmmm I'll try to help you out. Let you see how things look from the other side.

His army is like most Chaos ones, geared for moving close and getting dirty. This means he's weakest at long range and strongest within 12" or less.

Your Attack Bikes could be used to take out his Daemon Princes. Normally they're only T5 3+ save so think of them as tougher Marines as far as a Heavy Bolter is concerned. The Dakka Predator could also be used this way.

The bad thing about Defilers is their WS3 and I3, that means if you charge it with a Dreadnoght you are hitting on 3+ and going first. That gives you a good chance of killing it before it can attack you.

The LasCannon Predator should probably target a Defiler first, they're expensive units and only AV12 so if you can pop one, thats good. The other choice would be to target his Daemon Princes.

I'm assuming you just have normal Terminators, in that case I'd focus these guys on either the Berserkers, Defiler, Dreadnought, Daemon Prince or Obliterators. Best would be their infantry, as you can shoot them going in and then crush alot of them with the Power Fists. Expect to lose some though as Berserkers have alot of attacks and hit you on a 3+

Your Tacticals should focus fire on the enemy Rhinos, try to pop them open before they hit your line. If you can't do that, aim at the closest assault threat and try to kill it quickly. You'll need some Power Fists in the army if you get charged by a Daemon Prince, Dreadnought or Defiler.

Scouts are just going to be a speedbump for Chaos, they don't bring alot to the table really.

The Landspeeder is a good way to pop a Defiler, Dreadnought or a Rhino.

The Assault squad is going to be useful for either tying up a Berserker squad once you've popped their Rhino or supporting a Tactical squad thats been assaulted. Could use a Power Fist here instead. If you are lucky, you could assault the Obliterator, that would be nice.

 

 

Speaking more generally, some things that would serve you well against this list is:

1) Fast Moving Multi-Meltas for sniping Dreadnoughts and Defilers. Kill them quick to minimize their impact, once they're dead, go hunting Rhinos or Daemon Princes.

2) Power Fists, you're going to get assaulted and normally they'll be hitting first, so atleast hit back with something worthwhile.

3) I'm assuming he's using Lash Princes, where he can move your guys around right? If so, remember he can't move vehicles, so if you're in a Rhino, you're safe. Related to this, if your Tactical squads are hiding in Rhinos, it forces their Berserkers to assault the Rhino to kill it. This wastes their assault move and lets you rapid fire them before they can hit your Marines.

4) The Terminators are probably 3-4 guy with Combi-Weapons huh? Basically they're Chaos' version of the Drop Pod Sternguard, semi-disposable anti-tank/MC units. They are the main counter to your fancy Land Raiders.

5) As far as your HQs, its hard to say. You normally won't be able to out-assault a Chaos HQ, so you might think about a support unit. Jump Pack Chaplain with the Assault squad always works or a Librarian with Avenger.

[Blitzkrieg861]

Thanks for the response man, appreciate the help.

 

I've been thinking a lot of what I need to add next in my army and I agree I need to get some Power Fists and some Fast units. I only have Heavy Bolters for my bikes now so I should think of finding some multi-meltas to switch it up as well as buffing the 1 Landspeeder to a possible 2 or 3 to give it some more punch. I think 3 armed with double multi-meltas should be more than enough to pop at least one tank a turn.

 

He doesnt actually use a Lash Prince, or if he does I havent noticed anything different. Its just got like 5 or 6 attacks and toughness 5 or 6 with a 3+ armor save and a power weapon. Not sure what configuration that'd be...

 

Honestly, his Termies havent been much of a problem but yes they are usually assault cannon and combi-melta armed. So good for tanks and such. It's probably mostly luck, but I've been able to overwhelm them with attacks most times, or slowly widdle them down with power weapons from the sergeants in my squads.

 

I have thought of taking a Lib, but I'm not sure about which psychic powers to take. They look fun though. I did try a Chaplain once with a jump pack and I used him terribly. I should try it again as if I was to put him with even a small unit of vanguard with lightning claws... oh man, re roll city! Although a powerfist or thunderhammer with a stormshield would be more viable.

 

I really think the key is for me to either deepstrike more guys to get at his Defilers fast, get more fast troops and fit them in somewhere. I was thinking of drop podding 10 man marine units with meltagun and multimelta. It ought to be able to take out a defiler on the first turn if I dropped 1 or even 2 units like that on it. But I wonder if it's overkill or how badly I might get stomped when he focuses the brunt of his army on those two units. I am not really afraid of much in his army and feel I have a fighting chance, but those Defilers are S10 I think with AP3, it just stomps my army...

 

Thanks again for the help, boss.

[minigun762]

I've been thinking a lot of what I need to add next in my army and I agree I need to get some Power Fists and some Fast units. I only have Heavy Bolters for my bikes now so I should think of finding some multi-meltas to switch it up as well as buffing the 1 Landspeeder to a possible 2 or 3 to give it some more punch. I think 3 armed with double multi-meltas should be more than enough to pop at least one tank a turn.

Loyalist Marines have one of the nicest units ever, the Multi-Melta Attack Bike. 50 points for a fast moving tank killer? Yes please! Land Speeders can work too, I just prefer the T5 2 wounds vs AV10. Multi-Meltas are also good at attacking Daemon Princes or insta-killing Obliterators as they're wounding on a 2+ and punching through their armor saves.

 

He doesnt actually use a Lash Prince, or if he does I havent noticed anything different. Its just got like 5 or 6 attacks and toughness 5 or 6 with a 3+ armor save and a power weapon. Not sure what configuration that'd be...

You'd notice if it was a Lash Prince, with him moving your models all around. Sounds like its either a Nurgle Daemon Prince (T6) or Khorne (6 attacks). Fairly standard.

 

Honestly, his Termies havent been much of a problem but yes they are usually assault cannon and combi-melta armed. So good for tanks and such. It's probably mostly luck, but I've been able to overwhelm them with attacks most times, or slowly widdle them down with power weapons from the sergeants in my squads.

You mean the Reaper AutoCannon? Consider yourself lucky, its an expensive weapon thats just a TL'd AutoCannon. Lots of Combi-Meltas is fairly standard, used to bust open heavy armor. Alot of players will treat them as disposable units, drop in, fry something then it doesn't matter if they live or die. Sounds like you have the right idea here, remember that they make good Plasma Cannon bait when they deep strike in.

 

I have thought of taking a Lib, but I'm not sure about which psychic powers to take. They look fun though. I did try a Chaplain once with a jump pack and I used him terribly. I should try it again as if I was to put him with even a small unit of vanguard with lightning claws... oh man, re roll city! Although a powerfist or thunderhammer with a stormshield would be more viable.

Vanguard are going to be too expensive for what they're worth. A Librarian with a Jump Pack leading your Assault marines wouldn't be horrible. Give him Avenger for the charge and maybe Force Dome for an Inv save once you're stuck in or that S6 attack one (unless you give the Assault Sarge a Power Fist, then go with something else)

 

I really think the key is for me to either deepstrike more guys to get at his Defilers fast, get more fast troops and fit them in somewhere. I was thinking of drop podding 10 man marine units with meltagun and multimelta. It ought to be able to take out a defiler on the first turn if I dropped 1 or even 2 units like that on it. But I wonder if it's overkill or how badly I might get stomped when he focuses the brunt of his army on those two units.

 

Be very careful about deepstriking/podding in next to Defilers. Unless you kill them that turn, they can turn around, blast your bunched up Marines with the BattleCannon then charge you. Its not a good idea. If you wanna drop pod something in, go with a Dreadnought. Ironclad if you wanna be fancy but even the basic one with a Multi-Melta will probably take it out and if it charges you, you'll hit it first.

 

I am not really afraid of much in his army and feel I have a fighting chance, but those Defilers are S10 I think with AP3, it just stomps my army...

Defiler's BattleCannons are S8, its their melee attacks that are S10 (just like a Dreadnoughts).

They're scary and can put out some real hurt but you can minimize how much damage they do:

 

Troops in Rhinos so they have to kill the Rhino first.

Drop Podding Dreadnoughts up close.

Fast moving Multi-Melta units to fry them.

Power Fists in squads if you have to assault them.