eyescrossed Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I was looking at the daemon weapons, and I gave them a rating of best to worst. Best: Undivided - with between 5 and 10 Strength 5 power weapon attacks, it's easily the best Slaanesh: 3+D6 power weapon attacks that cause instant death? Yes please! Nurgle: 3+D6 wound-everything on 4+ power weapon attacks, with rerolls to wound most of he time. Khorne: 4+2D6 power weapon attacks? If only there wasn't a 1 in 3 chance to not attack... Tzeentch: Easily the worst - 40 points for 3+D6 power weapon attacks and a crappy shooting attack? No way! What are your personal favourites? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158912-daemon-weapons/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Tzeentch is my favorite. That shooting attack was great. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158912-daemon-weapons/#findComment-1861413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 :P A strength 4 AP3, D6 shots weapon over the other ones? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158912-daemon-weapons/#findComment-1861421 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 The Khorne one is either devestating or horrid. Too likely to not fight/wound self. The Slannesh one is great, though instant death is toned down due to the sheer number of Eternal Warriors out there, and against the vast majority of enemy (one wound models) it is no better in close than the Tzeentch one, and doesn't offer the shooting extra. The Nurgle one is good. No quibble there. The +1 strength for unmarked is ok. Also remember, a Tzeentch lord is less likely to take wounds due to the better invul save. And a Tzeentch lord with disk of tzeentch is now jump infantry with 4+d6 attacks, d6 shooting attacks before the charge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158912-daemon-weapons/#findComment-1861431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Tzeentch: Easily the worst - 40 points for 3+D6 power weapon attacks and a crappy shooting attack? No way! :P A strength 4 AP3, D6 shots weapon over the other ones? it's both a shooting weapon and a daemon weapon , plus you get a 4+ save against it if it rebels (which is more likely to happen), as JamesI pointed out. I personally think that it's one of the best in terms of kill potential. The Bloodfeeder is too random and too restrictive (CC only), whereas you can use this one at range. The Nurgle and Slaanesh DW's are great, but are also somewhat limited in their application. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158912-daemon-weapons/#findComment-1861441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 If you shoot and assault in the same turn with it, you have the same chance of the bloodfeeder to take a wound. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158912-daemon-weapons/#findComment-1861468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 If you shoot and assault in the same turn with it, you have the same chance of the bloodfeeder to take a wound. But, with bloodfeeder, if either come up 1, you do nothing. With Deathscreamer, if shooting comes up 1, you could still assault. If the assault came up 1, you still got to shoot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158912-daemon-weapons/#findComment-1861478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 .The Nurgle and Slaanesh DW's are great, but are also somewhat limited in their application. I'll agree with the Slaaneshi one, but the Nurgle Daemon Weapon is simply the very best one. Remember it now gets rerolls to wound against T3/T4, thats better than S5 against those. Against T5 its wounding the same as the Undivided one and against anything higher, its wounding better. So Nurgle is always atleast equal to if not better than Undivided with the exception that you can penetrate AV10 armor with the Undivided one (yay... :) since we get Kraks for free). I'd say it goes: Nurgle = #1 Slaanesh/Undivided = tie for #2 (depending on if you're going IC hunting or infantry killing) Tzeentch = #3 but just barely. It is really good, especially on a fast moving platform. Khorne = #4, realistically the Khornish Daemon Weapon is Twin Lightning Claws, which puts it on par with the Undivided one Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158912-daemon-weapons/#findComment-1861589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theredcorsair Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Khorne or slaanesh Khorne has +2D6 attacks that are power weapon and who cares if you hit yourself. Khorne cares not where the blood is spilled Slaneesh can have an insane amount of killing power against multiple wound units and anyting else Nurgle you can easily work with if you have a nurgle army Tzeentch Buy a :) Thousand sons squad instead of this. Sure, it ignores saves but lords are for cc not Shooting Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158912-daemon-weapons/#findComment-1861605 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Ah, but the lord that can do both well in the same turn is the most effective, no? Tends to make mince meat of a couple marines in shooting and more in combat. Plus having a better inv save...my vote is for Tzeentch. Makes a good generalist general. Next Nurgle/Slaanesh tied. Poison is good for MC hammering, while ID, while more useless than before, is nifty against Tau suits and the like. Khorne is good for fluff? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158912-daemon-weapons/#findComment-1861674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbaron997 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I prefer undivided myself. In fact a Full Undivided roll is almost as good as a full Khorne weapon roll. 10 Undivided attacks = 4.489 MEQ deaths 17 Khorne attacks = 5.695 So thats only about one more kill, twice as likekly to do nothing, and not as good vs higher Tougness models. Slaan&Nurgle are situational, but good at what they do and Tzeentch is his own thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158912-daemon-weapons/#findComment-1861696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Tzeentch Buy a :) Thousand sons squad instead of this. Sure, it ignores saves but lords are for cc not ShootingYou cannot compare the two really, stick a deathscreamer on a lord with wings and you have a highly mobile unit with a 36" threat range and he'll hardly ever miss. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158912-daemon-weapons/#findComment-1861700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 Good point. I see a lot of people have vastly different opinions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158912-daemon-weapons/#findComment-1861701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Nurgle are situational I'm still confused by how Nurgle is situational. The new Poisoned Rules make it a super death weapon against T3 and T4 models, wounding them 89% and 75% of the time respectively. The Undivided Weapon wounds 83% and 66% of the time against T3/T4. Both wound 50% of the time against T5 and Nurgle always wounds at 50% on anything higher. The advantage that Undivided has is 1) its cheaper because you're running no mark and 2) tiny upgrade against vehicles and 3) it allows you to be be Undivided which is its biggest draw I say, for fluff reasons Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158912-daemon-weapons/#findComment-1861706 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaoschrist Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Well, I haven't seen anyone take this in consideration. The slaanesh weapon can only be taken when taking Mark of Slaanesh, which as we all know grants a Ini. boost. I do think that in current close combat, especially since the new SM book is out, that I5 is pretty important, with all major SM HQ's have a I5 stat. I do think that the Slaanesh one is the best. Against MEQ it strikes first and to add with it, ignore armor saves.. and preferebly lot's of them.. Opposed to the nurgle weapon which is poisoned and the wielder is somewhat more resilient. It still hits on I4, so you're still fearing marines which hit at the same time. The khorne one.. yeah, it is risky. A miinimum of 8 attacks (4 base and at least a 2 on each die) but a big chance to fail. The Tzeentch one is somewhat tricky I think... having d6 shooting attacks at AP3 will kill MEQ and worse, however, you have to assault what you shoot, and who says there's anything left. Hence it would leave you a sitting duck.. one with a 4++ save though In a last effort to defend the Slaanesh one... the I boost due to the mark is the cheapest of all marks to take. The only reason I could think of not to take MoS is because you're running a themed list which is not Slaanesh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158912-daemon-weapons/#findComment-1862064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelias Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 In a last effort to defend the Slaanesh one... the I boost due to the mark is the cheapest of all marks to take. The only reason I could think of not to take MoS is because you're running a themed list which is not Slaanesh. less useful against nids with > I5 though :cuss Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158912-daemon-weapons/#findComment-1862169 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbaron997 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Nurgle are situational I'm still confused by how Nurgle is situational. The new Poisoned Rules make it a super death weapon against T3 and T4 models, wounding them 89% and 75% of the time respectively. The Undivided Weapon wounds 83% and 66% of the time against T3/T4. Both wound 50% of the time against T5 and Nurgle always wounds at 50% on anything higher. The advantage that Undivided has is 1) its cheaper because you're running no mark and 2) tiny upgrade against vehicles and 3) it allows you to be be Undivided which is its biggest draw I say, for fluff reasons Oh yea i forgot about that, im still not used to poisoned weapons having that effect. That brings nurgle to 5.025 MEQ kills. Its like a LC Daemon Weapon har har. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158912-daemon-weapons/#findComment-1862206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Well, I haven't seen anyone take this in consideration. The slaanesh weapon can only be taken when taking Mark of Slaanesh, which as we all know grants a Ini. boost. I do think that in current close combat, especially since the new SM book is out, that I5 is pretty important, with all major SM HQ's have a I5 stat. I do think that the Slaanesh one is the best. Against MEQ it strikes first and to add with it, ignore armor saves.. and preferebly lot's of them.. Opposed to the nurgle weapon which is poisoned and the wielder is somewhat more resilient. It still hits on I4, so you're still fearing marines which hit at the same time. The khorne one.. yeah, it is risky. A miinimum of 8 attacks (4 base and at least a 2 on each die) but a big chance to fail. The Tzeentch one is somewhat tricky I think... having d6 shooting attacks at AP3 will kill MEQ and worse, however, you have to assault what you shoot, and who says there's anything left. Hence it would leave you a sitting duck.. one with a 4++ save though In a last effort to defend the Slaanesh one... the I boost due to the mark is the cheapest of all marks to take. The only reason I could think of not to take MoS is because you're running a themed list which is not Slaanesh. Nurgle lords are init 5, Slaneesh lords are init 6. Also, some marine character (librarians/chaplain) are init 4. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158912-daemon-weapons/#findComment-1862231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 No, Slaanesh lords are initiative 6 :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158912-daemon-weapons/#findComment-1862281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Nurgle are situational I'm still confused by how Nurgle is situational. The new Poisoned Rules make it a super death weapon against T3 and T4 models, wounding them 89% and 75% of the time respectively. The Undivided Weapon wounds 83% and 66% of the time against T3/T4. Both wound 50% of the time against T5 and Nurgle always wounds at 50% on anything higher. The advantage that Undivided has is 1) its cheaper because you're running no mark and 2) tiny upgrade against vehicles and 3) it allows you to be be Undivided which is its biggest draw I say, for fluff reasons Oh yea i forgot about that, im still not used to poisoned weapons having that effect. That brings nurgle to 5.025 MEQ kills. Its like a LC Daemon Weapon har har. It took me awhile to get used to it as well, especially because it replaces the Undivided weapon as the best hordie killer. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158912-daemon-weapons/#findComment-1862351 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 The new Poisoned Rules make it a super death weapon against T3 and T4 models, wounding them 89% and 75% of the time respectively. It wounds both T3 and T4 the same, on a 4+ with a reroll, so why would the percentage be different? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158912-daemon-weapons/#findComment-1862459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 It wounds both T3 and T4 the same, on a 4+ with a reroll, so why would the percentage be different? because it wounds t3 on +3with re-rolls and t4 on +4 with reroll., Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158912-daemon-weapons/#findComment-1862634 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 No, it doesn't. poisoned weapons always wound on a flat rate - being 4+ with the plaguebringer - toughness is only used to determine whether there's a reroll. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158912-daemon-weapons/#findComment-1862638 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 No, it doesn't. poisoned weapons always wound on a flat rate - being 4+ with the plaguebringer - toughness is only used to determine whether there's a reroll. Really? Hmm my understanding would be wrong if that was the case. I'll have to review that again. Then it would be 75% wounding all the time, making the Undivided better against T3 but still worse against T4. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158912-daemon-weapons/#findComment-1862879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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