ChaosLord Leon Enaek Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 My friend recently finished Horus Rising, and so we had a colnversation about that yesterday. When we were talking about the Megarachnids, we saw a surprising connection to a 'current' race. The Tyranids. Could the Megarachnids be a lost scouting fleet? Just look. -Small, unintelligent worker class sub speices with bio-glue launchers. -Large, Chitinous Warrior sub species evolved to be ultimate warriors. -Great Talons. -Winged Versions of Warriors -Huge Tank and Titan sub species -Collective Imperitive -Had Spacetravel (pre-Interex) Any thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158975-of-the-imperiums-enemies/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadaeux Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I don't think that its unlikely. The Tyranid codex (at least mine) mentions current Imperial Biologists investigations into the species is cropping up potential connections across the entire Imperium, the Catachan Devils, the brainleaf and the Fenrisian Kraken. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158975-of-the-imperiums-enemies/#findComment-1862566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KfS Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I had also briefly pondered the same thing when I read the description of them. It's fun to think about, but I haven't thought about it enough to form a real opinion on it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158975-of-the-imperiums-enemies/#findComment-1863550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jubei124 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I was wondering if they were some sort of tyranids myself when I read about them. I supose its possible i mean who really knows what 10,000 years of evolution would turn them into Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158975-of-the-imperiums-enemies/#findComment-1863798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Kluft Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I would think it doubtful if the Megarachnid were any relation to the tyranid. The main reason being that they had significant cybernetic components (if i remember correctly) while the tyranid definitely do not. Also I seem to remember it was mentioned they once had an empire, which is again totaly against the grain of what the nids are all about. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158975-of-the-imperiums-enemies/#findComment-1863803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadaeux Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I would think it doubtful if the Megarachnid were any relation to the tyranid. The main reason being that they had significant cybernetic components (if i remember correctly) while the tyranid definitely do not. Also I seem to remember it was mentioned they once had an empire, which is again totaly against the grain of what the nids are all about. Mind you the Genestealers and such ALSO had nations, empires and extensive technological knowledge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158975-of-the-imperiums-enemies/#findComment-1863853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Angel Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 can some one explane the genestealers to me, arnt they just nids with human DNA, and aparently they also tend to somehow trick citys and such as though its a cult...and take over the population? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158975-of-the-imperiums-enemies/#findComment-1863902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadaeux Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 can some one explane the genestealers to me, arnt they just nids with human DNA, and aparently they also tend to somehow trick citys and such as though its a cult...and take over the population? Genestealers were known to the Imperium LONG before the name "Tyranid" was even whispered in the halls of the hallowed inquisition. They were (at first) creatures encountered on planets and space hulks typically that were known for their ferocity and ability to kill Terminator armoured marines with somewhat freakish ease. They would "subvert" humans and infect them with Genestealer DNA and would reproduce creating Genestealer Hybrids. After a few generations you'd get either "true" genestealers or genestealer hybrids that could pass for humans. And no. The Genestealer appears to be (now) a purely tyranid construct with only the most basic characteristics that actually allow them to breed away from the hive-mind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158975-of-the-imperiums-enemies/#findComment-1863936 Share on other sites More sharing options...
torN Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 I would think it doubtful if the Megarachnid were any relation to the tyranid. The main reason being that they had significant cybernetic components (if i remember correctly) while the tyranid definitely do not. Also I seem to remember it was mentioned they once had an empire, which is again totaly against the grain of what the nids are all about. I dont remember it being mentioned they had cybernetic components, i think that was the jorgal (spelling?) that were in the Flight of the Eisenstein. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158975-of-the-imperiums-enemies/#findComment-1865225 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jubei124 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 I have to agree with torN on this the Megarachnids had exo-skeletons like most inscect species, but not bionics. And the jorgall species did use some sort of bionics. The jorgall cyborgs standing on the banks of the chlorine lagoon were massacred, their keening cries echoing over the shallow, sandy dunes surrounding the landing zone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158975-of-the-imperiums-enemies/#findComment-1865582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqatone Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 While they could easily be seen as Tyranids I don't think they were. I'm sure there are plenty of, or were plenty of Bug/Insect races around during those times. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158975-of-the-imperiums-enemies/#findComment-1866251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-chaplain Astador Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 IIRC the megarachnids had swords not just talons - I'm pretty sure Lucius took one of theirs during the fight? Perhaps I am wrong, it has been a while since I read the book *edit* The Megarachnids are a fearsome and violent Xenos race, resembling giant spiders and winged insects. They possessed long sword-like claws which appeared to be made from an organic metallic substance, and lived and worked in large swarms. In the distant past, they fought a terrible war against the Interex but were ultimately defeated. Rather than exterminate their foes, the benevolent Interex exiled the Megarachnids to the planet Urisarach and removed all means of interstellar travel from them. During the Great Crusade, the 140th Expeditionary Fleet discovered Urisarach, and ignoring the Interex warning beacons descended to the surface to pacify the Megarachnids, naming the planet One-Forty-Twenty in the name of the Imperium. Then all contact with the 140th ceased, save for a lone distress call. The 63rd Expeditionary Fleet answered the call some time later, and took heavy losses during attacks from the Megarachnid warriors once they reached the surface. The planet was nicknamed Murder as during the distress call Blood Angels Captain Khitas Frome said "This. World. Is. Murder".1-p.221 Orgnic metallic substabce? That doesnt seem tyranid-esque at all to me. You also have to think that the Interex, defeated the Megarachnid empire, and effectively 'banished' them to a planet insetad of destroying them - this implies the Megarachnids had culture and civilisaiton, as i could see no reason for the Interex not wiping them out if they were 'simply' organisms like the nids. The nids to not have 'civilisaition' as such would be interpreted by Humans. Also The Interex 'removed all means of interstellar travel' from the Megarachnids - this implies that the Megarachnids possessed some sort of Technology, i.e. shapaceships/the xenos equivalent - not Bioships as the Tyranids have. I doubt things like this can be 'removed' since the Tyranids constantly evolve according to the organisms they consume. Its not like the nids would have had a set number of 50 ships to travel with, they would be constantly producing untill the Hive queen was destroyed...and even then? Lastly and most importantly, if they WERE Tyranids, the whole planet would have been completely stripped of anything that even remotely resembles life and it would have been a completely barren rock. ----------------- Genestealers to my knowledge are similar creatures (althoguh very different in appearance) to the parasitic organisms in Starship troopers 2. [Though Im sure this isn't the time to go into Tyranids being based on the ST book:P] * Purii - Purii are the most recognisable kind of Genestealers and one of them starts the infection cycle. They can infect members of other species through an ovipositor for genetic material located within their tongue. As the infection and infiltration spreads, the first genestealer takes the role of Patriarch and often grows larger than a typical Purii specimen. * Contagii - Infection Generation - Are the "hosts", members of another species, that have been infected by the "Kiss of the Purii". This causes them to forget the circumstances and the infection itself. As they return to their own societies they begin to have an urgent need to find a mate and to begin a family. The mate also becomes a Contagii. The Contagii are physically indistinguishable from other members of the species, making them the perfect infiltrators. The infection makes them fanatically loyal to their offspring, and to their Patriarch, which typically will re-enter their life all too soon. * Maelignaci - 1st Generation - As the contagii mate, the genetic material they were infected with passes onto their offspring. The maelignaci are very alike pure Genestealera, possessing many times 3 or even 4 arms. However they are unable to use their host species technology or weaponry. Within the cult they generally regarded as expendable shock troops. They are very clumsy and slow. * Hybrid - 2nd Generation - The offspring of the maelignaci bear more resemblance to their host species. However no one would be fooled, and they are also unable to use technology. * True Hybrid - 3rd Generation - The members of this generation could be mistaken for a member of their host species if they wear disguising clothes, or appear in shaded areas, etc. Some of them are capable of using weapons of their host species. * Primacii - 4th Generation - The Primacii are indistinguishable from members of their host species. Still many sport some tell-tale: many are bald, or something else. Their loyalty always lies with the Genestealer cult. Some rare individuals of this generation have psychic powers and take an important role within the cult as a Genestealer Magus. * Purii - 5th Generation - Paradoxically, the Genestealers DNA reemerges and the cycle can begin anew, as new Genestealers have the potential to become new Patriarchs in other worlds. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/a/aa/GenestealerHorde.jpg A Picture Of several generations of Genestealers. Both quotes taken from Lexicanum. The whole idea of Genestealers is that they can infiltrate a planet and corrupt it from the inside many many years or even decades before the main Tyranid invasion starts, making the eventuall fall of the planet and consumption of its organisms easier. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158975-of-the-imperiums-enemies/#findComment-1866944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadaeux Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Organic metallic substance? That doesnt seem tyranid-esque at all to me. In several edition this is EXACTLY how Genestealer Claws are referred to. The nids to not have 'civilisaition' as such would be interpreted by Humans. Genestealers have on several occasions had nations and empires of their own of a sort. The Interex 'removed all means of interstellar travel' from the Megarachnids - this implies that the Megarachnids possessed some sort of Technology, i.e. shapaceships/the xenos equivalent - not Bioships as the Tyranids have. Genestealers are usually seen on normal ships and space hulks. To say that they can't operate them is a fallacy as we know that they are intelligent or capable of intelligence. You are making the mistake of assuming "Tyranids" is used to refer to the species as a whole when one can (in referring to Genestealers and subspecies) be referring to the Tyranid organisms known as genestealers. Who DO possess the traits necessary to fit the bill of the megarachnids. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158975-of-the-imperiums-enemies/#findComment-1867036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Fellblade Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Lastly and most importantly, if they WERE Tyranids, the whole planet would have been completely stripped of anything that even remotely resembles life and it would have been a completely barren rock. I think this is the most important part of the discussion, I can't see any way you could argue with this statement. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158975-of-the-imperiums-enemies/#findComment-1867037 Share on other sites More sharing options...
imperialsavant Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 When I read the book I immediately thought "these are the forerunners of the 'Nids". Remember they did absorb some Space Marine DNA from those Marines they killed & the Marines were told they had breached the Exile status that had been placed to hold the Megas on the Planet. They could have evolved greatly in the time they appeared as Hive Fleets. Just a guess but it did seem likely! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158975-of-the-imperiums-enemies/#findComment-1867053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
imperialsavant Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Lastly and most importantly, if they WERE Tyranids, the whole planet would have been completely stripped of anything that even remotely resembles life and it would have been a completely barren rock. I think this is the most important part of the discussion, I can't see any way you could argue with this statement. Well, maybe they had not evolved to the point they did later & as they would have had no further supplies of "food" if they stripped the planet of all life they would have just died out. May be they ate their own but the coming of the Marines changed everything! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158975-of-the-imperiums-enemies/#findComment-1867057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Fellblade Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Lastly and most importantly, if they WERE Tyranids, the whole planet would have been completely stripped of anything that even remotely resembles life and it would have been a completely barren rock. I think this is the most important part of the discussion, I can't see any way you could argue with this statement. Well, maybe they had not evolved to the point they did later & as they would have had no further supplies of "food" if they stripped the planet of all life they would have just died out. May be they ate their own but the coming of the Marines changed everything! You can say maybe a lot of things, but basing it on the facts we know, they are more unlike the 'nids than they are like them. No evidence of synapse or any significant variation in size, not all having 6 legs(described as arachnids, which have 8 legs), there's no spores and no devouring of anything other than a few space marines and some cement, all of which I'd judge as key factors as being Tyranid. The appearance is the only real linking element, and the Mega-arachnid are described as spider like, rather than the alien appearance of the 'nids. I can understand the desire to find little references to the current 40k universe but I think this is just grasping at straws. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158975-of-the-imperiums-enemies/#findComment-1867086 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyp100 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 They aren't Nids people, sorry to say, they are nothing like Nid's. Nid's remind me of bug's a little, where the Arachanid are meant to be more like giant bugs...Also, all the evidence points at them not being Nid's. Accept it, there are other bugs in the universe that aren't Nid's! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158975-of-the-imperiums-enemies/#findComment-1869963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magos Explorator Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 One more point--Tyranids all have 6 limbs (or at least this was the case last time I checked), while arachnids don't. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158975-of-the-imperiums-enemies/#findComment-1872692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobo Willie Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 From what I recall of them, they seem to favor more the 'Arachnids' of Starship Troopers (movie) fame. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158975-of-the-imperiums-enemies/#findComment-1872769 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperialis_Dominatus Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Accept it, there are other bugs in the universe that aren't Nid's! Hallelujah! Can't we have a vaguely bug-like race that isn't tied to Nids? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158975-of-the-imperiums-enemies/#findComment-1872968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyp100 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 That's what...I was saying... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158975-of-the-imperiums-enemies/#findComment-1873144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperialis_Dominatus Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 And I was agreeing... sorry, I guess I came off wrong. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158975-of-the-imperiums-enemies/#findComment-1873191 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deus lo volt Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Sadly, we will never know for sure. Between Horus, Sanguinus and their Legions the Mega-arachnid were wiped from exsistence. Mega-Arachnid Race: destroyed M31, R.I.P. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158975-of-the-imperiums-enemies/#findComment-1873308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jubei124 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Sadly, we will never know for sure. Between Horus, Sanguinus and their Legions the Mega-arachnid were wiped from exsistence. Mega-Arachnid Race: destroyed M31, R.I.P. I thought the that they all left 'Murder' once the interex arrived and never wiped out the Megarachnids? Been a while since I read the book so your probably right though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/158975-of-the-imperiums-enemies/#findComment-1873362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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