Sisters of Battle Terminator Rules

[Mosk]

***PLEASE READ FIRST***

 

The idea of wanting to use terminators in an army is for extremely powerful assaults. Now I want to change that with the Sisters of Battle. Yes I do think they should have extremely powerful assaults, but not compared to space marines, but compared to the pathetic assaults of regular sisters. Terminator like units are needed in a PURE sisters of battle army. I want these sisters to excel in a 3-8 inch range (flamer template range). This will help to make them feel more like sisters of battle. Because I want them to excel in a flamer template range, I think that all of them should be able to have heavy flamers, and maybe not even have the option for Multi Meltas. IF you will notice these sisters have standard flamers as their standard weapon. I am really wondering if they should have twin linked flamers as standard.

 

Due to thread about the Sisters of Battle Terminators, I have decided to set up a rough draft for Sisters of Battle Terminators.

I am making this for not just epic, ***** NOT JUST FOR EPIC***** I plan on using these as an elite slot for friendly matches with buddies. There are some questions at the bottom. Just read it...

 

I will edit right away on things that I read that I think should for sure be edited.

 

ELITE:

Sisters of Battle Terminator: 35 points each

Unit Type: Infantry

Number/Squad: 1 Sister Superior Terminator and 2-9 Sisters of Battle Terminators (*Sister Superior Terminators have the same Stats as Sisters of Battle Terminators)

Wargear:

Terminator Armor

Flamer

Power Sword

Characters:

Any model may be upgraded to a Veteran Sister Superior 10 points. Veteran Sister Superiors may take items from the Armory.

Any model may be upgraded an Imagifier for 20 points. Imagifers must exchange their twin linked bolter for a Simulacrum Imperious- found in the Armory. Imagifer may exchange their power sword for the other options.

Transport: If the Squad is between 3-8 then It may be mounted in a Landraider for 250 points. All transports are taken in the same slot as the squad.

Options:

Any models may replace their power sword for:

Evicerator for 20 points

1 model in 5 may upgrade their flamer to heavy flamer for +5pts

 

Special Rules:

Faithful - All Sister of Battle Terminators are highly trained and have more fully devoted their lives to the Holy Emperor then many of the other Sisters of Battle. Due to this all Sister of Battle Terminators are faithful. Add one faith point to your faith pool for every Sisters of Battle Terminator Squads you take.

Adepta Soritas: Sisters of Battle Terminators are subject to Adepta Soritas special rule.

Holy Hatred : I cant tell you the rules for this one I don't think, sorry. Its found under the celestian section of army list

 

............................................................BS.....WS.....S.....T.....W....I.....A..

...LD.....SV

Sister of Battle Terminator - ...............4........4.......3/6....3.....1.....4....2......9.......2/5+

Veteran Sister of Battle Terminator-...4.........4.......3/6....3.....1.....4...3......10.....2/5+

 

 

Here ya all go. I now have questions for all of you. I based these a little bit off the Chaos Space Marine Terminators.

 

1.) Should they be 40 points? Should they be 35 points? would that balance them out more?

2.) Should they automatically be faithful?

3.) Should they be able to give 2 faith points due being faithful already, and adding a VSS who is also faithful?

4.) Should they use combi weapons?

5.) How much points should it be to upgrade the flamer to heavy flamer? How many points to exchange for a Multimelta

6.) Should they have the Celestian Holy Hatred rule?

7.) Should they ALL be able to have HF or MM? I think so.

9.) What would you do differently with them?

10.) Should they have twin linked flamers for standard?

11.) Should they be able to have chain fists?

 

Edit list:

Removed option for taking a rhino transport after Captain Malachi offered the idea.

Exchanged the twin linked bolter with a flamer in the wargear. - my idea.

Removed Immolator Option - Flintlocklaser idea

Removed option for cyclone missile launcher - flintlock idea.

Removed ALL combi weapons from options - my idea

Now only 1:5 heavy flamer/multimelta to regular sisters - Flintlocklaser

Removed option for MultiMeltas -Sister Rosette Soulknyt

Now 35 points over all model -Sister Rosette Soulknyt

VSS no longer give faith points - madtroll

Power Sword instead of power fist -madtroll

No chain fist - madtroll

Evicerator now 20 points - Mosk

[Captain Malachi]

I may offer more advice tomorrow, since I'm just off to bed, but I'll just say this: Take away the option for a rhino transport, it's a constant across all codecies that terminator armoured models may not ride in rhinos.

[Mosk]

Ok will do so, What about using Immolators?

[flintlocklaser]

Ok will do so, What about using Immolators?

 

Immolator is a Rhino chassis, but with even less room inside (like the SM Razorback). So if they can't ride in Rhinos or Razorbacks, they probably shouldn't be able to ride in Immolators either.

 

EDIT TO ADD: Looks like you're taking your weapons selection cues from the Chaos termies. Without getting into whether or not that's the appropriate model for Sisters in TDA, you should be at least as restrictive as the Chaos dex, and only allow one 'heavy' weapon (Hvy Flamer or MM) per squad, unless it's a full-strength squad at which point they can take two. I also wonder if relentless Multi-Meltas would be overpowered or not, but they'd certainly be thematically appropriate. I'd stay away from the Cyclone option.

[Mosk]

I think that the cyclone option should be taken away as well. But I think that I should also make these sisters a little less powerful in CC then regular terminators or chaos terminators. I want to keep to the whole sisters of battle are in their prime when they are within 3-8 inches (flamer template distance) from the enemy. I think that they should all be allowed to have som sort of flame thrower. Or even have flame thrower as standard. But also I do not want these to be the exact copy of the Chaos termis either.

 

maybe for wargear give them flamers, and can all upgrade to heavy flamer for 10 or 5 points?

Maybe only 1 of 5 may have MM?

 

In the end I want to make these Sister Terminators more of a between 6-8 inch masters, and can hold up fairly well in CC? I want these to be used differently then most terminators. I think I am going to edit the wargear.

[flintlocklaser]

maybe for wargear give them flamers, and can all upgrade to heavy flamer for 10 or 5 points?

Maybe only 1 of 5 may have MM?

 

This still seems like it's going to be too powerful. No other terminator unit in the game gets to run pure heavy weapons, which is what you're suggesting here. Even Black Templar TDA is limited to two heavies per 5-man squad. More than this smacks of munchkinism. Maybe if you stuck to the "1 heavy per basic squad/2 heavies at 10" model, and let them all take combi-flamers like the Chaos termies do? That way your unit isn't doing anything that another army list can't already do, which is probably the easiest way to argue (argument from precedent) that your new unit is balanced; and yet you've still got a thematic, lots of flamers component.

[Mosk]

What do you think of the idea of changing the standard twin linked bolter to either a flamer, or a twin linked flamer? If you will notice also I made it so that 1 in 5 may have heavy weapons i see your position on that. I think that having the combi weapons will add to much fire power to these sisters.

 

Also what do you think of the point values Flintlocklaser? Should the point values for upgrading characters and weapons be changed, should the basic over all cost be changed?

[flintlocklaser]

What do you think of the idea of changing the standard twin linked bolter to either a flamer, or a twin linked flamer? If you will notice also I made it so that 1 in 5 may have heavy weapons i see your position on that. I think that having the combi weapons will add to much fire power to these sisters.

 

Also what do you think of the point values Flintlocklaser? Should the point values for upgrading characters and weapons be changed, should the basic over all cost be changed?

 

I'll have to get back to you on the point values Mosk, I'd want to sort of compare them across multiple versions of Terminators to do that (CSM, SM, BT) and I don't have my books with me. I will say that I'm not certain about swapping flamers for twin-linked bolters over the whole unit; that's a LOT of flame templates, especially for a unit that will have access to Acts of Faith. The combi-weapon route the CSMs use is arguably undercosted, but it does limit them to throwing one template per game, instead of one every round. I don't have enough actual tabletop experience to tell if moving from those types of one-shot flamers to reusable ones is going to be overpowering or not, but it seems like it would give a bunch of utility to this unit. On the other hand, as you said you'll be losing the 24" reach out and touch someone aspect of the bolters; it's an interesting issue, and frankly I'm not sure if the loss of versatility and range won't be overshadowed by the increased close-range fire. You'll be vulnerable to getting kited with plasmaguns, I suppose.... Hopefully some people with more game experience will chime in and help out!

[Artein]

I'd give an ability to buy Eviscerator/Chain fist or another flamer, and use TL flamers rules.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Ok good idea i can imagine them looking like GK with lots of Fluer de le and symbols would make a great miniature.

 

Now for the rules id drop them down to 30-35 points each..there not space marines.

Then i wouldnt allow cyclone missile launchers, asault cannons either .

Having the option for Eviscerators thats a great idea it is a favoured weapon after all.

Dont worry about a Multi Melta either it just wouldnt fit the feel of them if yu want experienced CC models.

Having a Landraider a must but would forgo a Deepstrike by Telaport...again not the Space Marines.

Allowing them to have Blessed Ammo would be a good upgrade.

And definetly a Imagifier with a cool looking standard would be a must too.

But dont use the Chaos termies as a template to them and i definetly wouldnt say have combi weapons unless it was justa flamer.

Having only two heavy Flamers in a large squad fits them nicely, would make them even more dangerous in CC

And finally i would give them the same rules as Celestines (as they obviously would be) so they hit on a 3+ in CC

[madtroll]

Heres my 2 cents.

 

Should only be one veteran superior per squad.

 

They should have celestian holy hatred. If an order got access to this armor they would almost certainly give them to the celestians.

 

They should be a faithful unit and automatically get one faith point. Upgrading one sister to a vet should not add another faith point but instead give the squad an imagifer, like the seraphim.

 

One heavy per 5 sounds good and access to multi meltas would certainly be something unique for them. Twin linked heavy flamer sounds pretty f'n cool too but I think they would need both hands for that. Maybe make them drop the close combat weapon if they go that route. One heavy flamer in each hand. Also combiflamers/meltas for the rest of them should be an option.

 

Just the fact that they are toughness 3 already makes them inferior to other armies close combat troops.

 

You have the eviscerator priced higher than the chainfist but the chainfist is actually better. They both use the exact same profile except the eviscerator is two handed and the chainfist is one handed. the eviscerator should be cheaper than the chainfist if they are both there.

 

I actually feel that chainfist shouldn't even be an option. they can either take a power sword or an eviscerator, that's their only options. No chain fists, power fists, lightning claws, or thunderhammers.

 

Sisters have a storm shield equivalent in their armory but it uses the old storm shield rules. Let the vet take this but make it combat shield like, fitted with a bolter.

 

I really think that if they had access to a landraider it would either be a crusader or redeemer, lascannons aren't really their style.

 

maybe let them fit a min squad in a repressor? it's a little bit bigger than a standard rhino. probably not...

[Mosk]

I like the blessed ammunition but that only works for heavy bolter or storm bolters. This does not work for the flamer as being the main weapon.

 

The reason why I have the main weapon as a flamer is to make them different from the rest of the other terminators. Though I would like to know if this would actually be fair. I think it would be as EVERY single weapon in the game, except other flamers out range them.

 

I am currently looking at the Chaos marine codex, the Black Templar codex, Space Marine Codex (5th edition) and the Daemon Hunter Codex to cross reference the termis...

 

So the Space Marine Termis have Storm Bolters and Power Fists at 40 points

The chaos Termis have twin linked bolters at 30 points

The Black Templar have storm bolters and power fists at 40 points

The daemon hunters have storm bolters and force nemisis weapons for 46 points

 

Now I am just going down the list, and looking at these basic builds for these termis.

 

If my termi ladies had flamers then they would be 35 points

now they would have an 8 inch range.

 

Space Marines, BT, and DH have 24 inch range and two shots.

Chaos Space Marines have 2 shots at 12 inches but can still reach up to 24 inches with one shot each.

 

I personally still think they should have flamers (all of them) So I am wondering if the following would be a "fair" trade off.

 

Wargear:

Storm Bolter or Twin linked bolter (I dont know which one yet)

terminator armor

power fist

 

options:

1 of 5 may take heavy flamers for +15 points

Each Model may replace their stormbolters/ bolters with flamers for +5 points

 

Is that a fair trade off their?

[Mosk]

I like the idea for a repressor :P and let me work my magic on the editing madtroll I like how you are thinking.

[madtroll]

yeah I can definatley picture them running into battle with an eviscerator gripped in both hands and a wrist mounted flamer. Would be frickin awesome to model.

 

Makes me think of the Penitent Engine.

 

Multiple template weapons is very powerful in the new rules so might want to tone it down. Sure they are short range but if your putting them in a landraider then that doesn't really matter.

 

I also really like the idea of giving them blessed ammunition, these girls would be packing it for sure.

 

 

Maybe max them out at 4 special weapons like the dominions, your choices would be flamers or meltaguns. for every 5 sisters in the squad you can replace one special weapon with a heavy weapon, heavy flamer or multimelta.

 

How about this:

 

Standard gear load out - power sword and storm bolter w/ blessed ammunition

 

4 sisters may replace their storm bolter with a flamer or meltagun special weapon.

 

any sister may replace her power sword with an eviscerator

 

if the squad numbers 5 models then one special weapon sister may take a heavy flamer or multimelta instead. If the squad numbers 10 models then 2 special weapon sisters may take a heavy flamer or multimelta.

 

A sister with a heavy flamer may exchange her powersword for another heavy flamer, making it twin linked.

 

now she has no power weapon attacks though...

 

not sure on that one, will need more thinking on it.

 

as for points, it's always best to shoot high.

 

grey knight termies are 46 points each and have a nemisis force weapon and storm bolter.

 

sisters that are strength and toughness 3 with a power sword and blessed ammo storm bolter at 46 points should be a fair tradeoff for being faithful. 40 points is probably more balanced.

 

eviscerator at +10? space marines only pay +5 for their chainfists and they are str 8 while sisters will only be str 6.

 

grey knights pay +15 for an incinerator which is better than a heavy flamer. but they are maxed at one per squad unless the brother captain takes one also and he pays more for his.

 

so +15 for a heavy flamer? +20 for a multimelta? +8 for flamer and +10 for meltagun?

 

 

a problem that just popped in my head is what happened to the dominion squads? One of the glories of taking these girls is getting 4 flamers in one squad. Why would you do that if you can do it in TDA instead? Of course these termy squads are going to be really frickin expensive in comparison. might be a fair tradeoff.

[Roultox]

Um, well to assume you compare to loyalist terminators, and the fact they get faith point abilities, we will just ignore the toughness 3 points drawback. So with the same cost as regular terminators, with the same storm bolter and power fist. Since the template for space marines are becoming the norm, 1 weapon per 5 models should be where it stands, just like the rest. However, since sisters are not standardized like space marines in the force org chart I wouldnt be surprized if the terminators would be a heavy support choice.

 

So along the lines of maybe 42 points each (a little more, because of faith points and the free faith point from the upgraded SoB, just like the searg for SM termies) Power fists arent as useful, and the cost remains the same yet again because faith points are murderous, there is a reason that repentia dont get faith point bonuses. You get to use them here.

 

Special weapons are of course heavy flamers, I wouldnt go as far as a heavy bolter or multi-melta, that is a bit anti-fluff IMO. So as the primary weapons limitations somewhat reflect SoB units with storm bolters and heavy flamers, barring the meltagun option. Perhaps, maybe a meltagun can replace a storm bolter as the weapon option, just a thought though. Absoloutly no combi-bolter weapons, since such weapons are not seen in normal SoB units, (they produce Storm Bolters for regular SoB units).

 

Just going off fluff and comparison. 42 per model, free faith point sister character upgrade included, 5-10 models as an elite choice, deep strike teleporting rule, 2+/5+inv saves included of course, storm bolters and 1 Heavy Flamer per 5 in the unit typicly. The unit can have 2+ inv saves, and thrives no matter the number left, so durability isnt an issue and with 2 shots each, the offensive faith point rules also rule. This is where numerousity fizzles out and quality fills in, making faith points very dangerous.

 

If you want a dream squad with the many heavy flamers, then I suggest you disallow faith points for them to use to pass it by your opponents consent.

[madtroll]

Special weapons are of course heavy flamers, I wouldnt go as far as a heavy bolter or multi-melta, that is a bit anti-fluff IMO. So as the primary weapons limitations somewhat reflect SoB units with storm bolters and heavy flamers, barring the meltagun option. Perhaps, maybe a meltagun can replace a storm bolter as the weapon option, just a thought though. Absoloutly no combi-bolter weapons, since such weapons are not seen in normal SoB units, (they produce Storm Bolters for regular SoB units).

 

I'm assuming you don't play sisters so I'll just throw this out there...

 

The "Holy Trinity" for sisters is the bolter, flamer, and melta.

 

The only two options available to their Retributers (devastator equiv) are heavy bolter or multimelta. Their dominion squads can take 4 of either storm bolter, meltagun, or flamer.

 

combiweapons are avail in their armory.

 

Saying that it would be overpowered to have termies with heavy bolters or multimeltas is certainly something worth debating, cuz you could be right. Nothing is overpowered though, just have to cost it right.

 

But saying it doesn't fit the fluff is just way off.

[Mosk]

Would it be better to have wargear be storm bolters and evicerators? And if they were in terminator armor don't you think they could just hold the evicerator with one hand? I am not saying that they could carry another hand weapon I am just wondering for modelling looks

[madtroll]

Would it be better to have wargear be storm bolters and evicerators? And if they were in terminator armor don't you think they could just hold the evicerator with one hand? I am not saying that they could carry another hand weapon I am just wondering for modelling looks

 

Yeah I am picturing eviscerator + storm bolter as standard gear load out. there has to be flamers in the squad also.

 

As far as modeling goes, I am picturing wrist mounted storm bolters / flamers (like grey knights) with an eviscerator gripped in both hands. would look frickin sweet.

 

Now whether I can pull it off or not is another question...

 

Right now I am painting my buddies tomb kings army and then I will work on making these girls up.

 

 

as for rules, after thinking about heavy bolters there is no reason why they shouldnt be an option also.

[Toogeloo]

Why the 3/6 S in the profile? None seem to be holding Power Fists nor do I see that being an option.

 

I would set up the wargear as:

(36 points a piece per Termisister, must have 5 can get 10)

Bolter

Power Sword

Terminator Armor

 

+A termisister can change their bolter for a combi-F/M/P for 5 points per model

+A termisister can change their power sword fo an Eviscerator for 15 points per model

+For every 5 termisisters, one girl may exchange her Bolter and Power Sword for a Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter, Twin-Linked Heavy Flamer, or Twin-Linked Multi-Melta at no additional cost.

[the jeske]

I think it would be better to make some special celestian in artificer armor and refractor fields . I remember a french guy doing some comissions of those for a sob army that was chaos "counts as"[old4th ed dex]. it possible for the biggest convents [like the one on ofelia] could well have the resources to have such "honor guard" units . I would use GK rules eviscerator or honor blades and storm bolters and inceinerators for holy flamers .

[madtroll]

Why the 3/6 S in the profile? None seem to be holding Power Fists nor do I see that being an option.

 

I would set up the wargear as:

(36 points a piece per Termisister, must have 5 can get 10)

Bolter

Power Sword

Terminator Armor

 

+A termisister can change their bolter for a combi-F/M/P for 5 points per model

+A termisister can change their power sword fo an Eviscerator for 15 points per model

+For every 5 termisisters, one girl may exchange her Bolter and Power Sword for a Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter, Twin-Linked Heavy Flamer, or Twin-Linked Multi-Melta at no additional cost.

 

eviscerators have the same profile as chain fists except they are two handed as opposed to one. That is why you see the 3 / 6 for str.

 

just curious, are you suggesting that they use both hands for a heavy weapon for balance purposes or do you think they wouldn't be able to carry it?

 

I think it would be better to make some special celestian in artificer armor and refractor fields . I remember a french guy doing some comissions of those for a sob army that was chaos "counts as"[old4th ed dex]. it possible for the biggest convents [like the one on ofelia] could well have the resources to have such "honor guard" units . I would use GK rules eviscerator or honor blades and storm bolters and inceinerators for holy flamers .

 

thats a route worth exploring. The stats would be the same, just wouldnt be able to move and shoot heavy weapons.

 

fluff wise, what do you think would be more likely? Which would be easier for an Order to get? It seems to me that TDA is much more common than artificer armor. Maybe I am wrong on that.

 

Space marines will gear out entire companies in terminator armor but only a handful of very important dudes will get artificer armor.

[Melissia]

Eviscerators are:

 

Double strength, power weapon, strikes last, 2d6 penetration, two-handed.

 

Power Fists are:

 

Double strength, power weapon, strikes last, one-handed.

[jeffersonian000]

Personally, I like the idea of heavy metal sisters with eviserators and bolters, with the ability to have a heavy flamer or melta at a 1 per 5 ratio.

 

I had been playing around with the idea of modeling females in ornate terminator armour wielding powered glaives and wrist mounted twin-link boltguns, ala Adeptus Custodes Honour Guard. The glaives would be treated as power weapons that perhaps ignored invul saves as well as armour saves, while their bolters would just allow them to re-roll misses. I have no idea what I would use them for; it just struck a chord with me as seeming to fit in with the setting. I had yet to figure out point costs, so excellent work Mosk!

 

SJ

[Toogeloo]

just curious, are you suggesting that they use both hands for a heavy weapon for balance purposes or do you think they wouldn't be able to carry it?

I was thinking for balance purposes. Giving up their Power attacks in CC for Twin Linked ranged, tank destruction, or anti-infantry is already pretty powerful. Since Eviscerators, Bolters, and Heavy Weapons are all unwieldy, none of the options allow termisisters to get an extra close combat attack anyways.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Does no one think this is a bit silly?

 

TDA is a technology which is used near-exclusively by the Adeptus Astartes. The only other organisations which would have access to it are the Inquisition and the Adeptus Mechanicus. In the former category, only the Grey Knights most senior members (ie their Grandmasters, Brother-Captains and the bodyguard retinues of both) and Inquisitor Lords would be able to use TDA on a regular basis. In the latter category, the Mechanicus can replicate TDA but only on a very limited scale (barely enough to service replacements/repairs for the existing suits in each of the loyalist Chapters). I don't know of any Skittari units which use TDA.

 

It is an armour type which was designed for use by the Assault Companies of the Legions back before the Heresy. It was only just being introduced when Horus attempted his coup. If we estimate that roughly half the TDA in use was lost with the Traitor Legions, and factor in 10,000 years of attrition and the degradation of technical knowledge, it's amazing that TDA is still in use amongst the loyalist Chapters. Many of the suits in use in the 41st millennium date back to the Heresy (being so tough, and be constantly repaired for so many years). Even amongst the Chapters, the only one that can (and only) fields it's entire 1st Company in TDA are the Dark Angels (and possibly their successors, depending on how many they had to start with in their Assault Companies, back when they were a Legion).

 

In summary, it's a rare and precious commodity, which only the Astartes and the Inquisition have access to for battle-field use (the Mechanicus don't use TDA persay in their Skittari forces, but they may use bits and pieces of the technology for their Praetorian battle-servitors etc). It's highly unlikely that the Eccelisarchy or the Ordo Hereticus would have the resources to equip the Celestians of even a major Convent. The Eccelsiarchy is already on thin ice, from a martial supply viewpoint, having the SoB. I very much doubt that the Munitorum or the Mechanicus would be inclined to let them utilise such a rare commodity as TDA. The Ordo Hereticus is the youngest wing of the Inquistion, and unlike the other two does not use Astartes as their Chamber Militant. If any member of the Inquisition were to have access to a suit of TDA for their own personal use (never mind equipping their Chamber Militant), it would be either the Malleus or Xenos.

 

 

Game-play wise, I see zero need for it. SoB function as a deadly and competitive short-range shooty army. Seraphim already provide a reasonably effective assault unit, while Celestians make a decent bodyguard for the Canoness on foot/mechanised.

 

 

By all means, try it out in friendly games. You will get weird looks from you're opponents, and it's going to jar with the theme for your army.

For simplicity's sake you might wanna use the rules for GKT's (and count-as), as they are broadly what you're aiming for, as well as being perfectly legal allies from the DH's. You can only get 1 HQ and 1 Elite, but that should adequately represent how rare such units are. They're also reasonably costed and have incinerators (to keep with the short-range theme of the rest of the army).