Fighting Suit and Railgun heavy Tau

[Brother-Captain Sharp]

Long post is long, for tl;dr read green areas

 

I've found my Kryptonite, and it's Crisis suit Tau, with heavy support from two Hammerheads, and a Broadside battle suit team.

 

Here's his list, as I remember it.

 

The Special Character in a normal suit with 4 wounds, a 2+ save, and FNP, with Fusion Blaster

2 Broadside Battlesuit Teams, 3 suits each

1 team has Plasma, Burst Cannons

Other team has plasma, missile pods

Two Fire Warrior Teams, each with devil fish with Burst cannon and missile pods, disruption pods

Broadside team, 3 suits, 2 shield drone, Target lock thing (shoot at something different) at the leader, TLLC railguns and TLLC missile pods on each suit

2 Hammerheads, missile pods, disruption pods.

 

I've already played this exact list with Deathwing (4 squads, Belial, LR, LRC) and got close, but ended up losing. Later, in the actual tournament, I played against it with a gun-line marine list. They were both kill points game, and when I eventually challenge him for top spot on the local leaderboard, it will be KP again. So I need a hard list to fight it that won't give up KP (I lost the game because there was no where to hide my razorbacks on the board).

 

Now I know that I should not be having this much trouble with this list. But I can't seem to beat it. He's the only one to hand me a loss in the past two months. Every time I play him, he gets great rolls on his disruption pods, making his hammerheads invincible. And he's discovered that he can walk his suits out of cover, then jump them back in, so he's taking half the dangerous tests i thought he would be.

 

K, so I just need a 1500 point list to deal with the above. I don't care how tooled it is, this guy's a prick, and I'm not just saying that because I lost to him. I'm tempted to try DW again (I forgot about smoke launchers when I first played with them, which would help). I have to win with this first challenge though, or its not likely that I'll get another shot for a long while. On the line is a 30% discount on all 40k stuff.

 

So here's what I have to work with:

Every DA special character (Sammael in his LS)

Pedro Kantor

Chaplains galore, including one in termie armor, and one with a JP

Captain model from the AoBR

50 terminators (wish those could all go in a 1500 point list) <_<

12 bikers, optional command squad upgrades, magnetized special weapons

A battle company, lacking the rhinos. (Only 3)

10 veterans, all magnetized

3 LST

Land Raider

LRC

4 Dreadnoughts, all with magnetized weapons

Magnetized Pred

Pred with Autocannon and HB

 

Anyways, if you have a list, the odds are that i have the stuff for it. The only thing i'm lacking is Vindicators, which i might actually be able to proxy. I don't wanna trust myself to write a list to fight this guy, as I always seem to take it in the wrong direction.

 

Any ideas?

[Mal]

There is no 'wrong direction' against a suit tau force... they are highly mobile, and oddly they do not completly suck in combat (they can actually be quite nasty when tooled right).

 

I'd recommend taking a dual wing, both RavenWing and DeathWing.

 

The raven wing to get a MM within 12" of the hammerhead... once your that close, not only do you get 2D6 pen, but he doesn't get to use his disruption pods!! Bonus! Also the mobality of the RW can be great for getting those important shots against the mobile suits, storm forward with DW and flank with RW... he can't dodge both and stay in cover... (or at least he shouldn't be able to, theres not supposed to be that much cover on the board).

[Sternguard sergeant McColl]

They are my Kryptonite too. I play againt a mech heavy tau guy just like this and he has no shame. I've tried everything at my disposal to beat him, libby's, sternguard, all pods, dreadnaught rain, rhino's, LR's. Horde marines, everything. No matter how good the terrain is Tau can always pull out a dirty shooting trick to blast you to pieces. Markerlights, targeting array. The upgrades just keep coming. I can't rely on assault. I have never beat him and I'm a relatively new but very smart player. Some help for normal C:SM players would be appreciated also.

[Jackelope King]

Looking at what you've got, two things come to mind: Land Speeders with Multi-Meltas coupled with two six-man Bike squads (packing meltas, and if you have attack bikes you forgot about, stick them in too with multi-meltas). Turbo boost your bikes close (the 3+ cover will protect you from those railheads, broadsides and plasma). Sergeants get power fists. One turn of turbo-boosting should get you close enough to start cleaning house and smashing face.

 

Once you're in close, meltas will wreck a suits-heavy Tau army. Tau tanks lose their Disruption Pod bonus when you're close enough to benefit from Meltas' armor penetration anyway, and they definitely don't get it in melee against power fists. Support this with missile launchers, either from a relatively cheap devistator squad (take some extra marines for ablative wounds). Why? Jump-shoot-jump is weaker now that the game uses true line of sight, so you'll get more shots that wound on a 2+, instant-kill and ignore most suits' armor from a very healthy range. You want plenty of cheap anti-tank all over the table, and missile launchers can give that to you, doubling as a decent way to instant-kill enemy suits. If possible, run a bike captain and a couple of tacticals quads in rhinos. You'll have too many scoring units for your opponent to kill them all.

 

In terms of your weapons, anything with a S8 or better is going to be your friend. Even a humble krak missile will instant-kill most suits without an armor save. You want to instant-kill them, because they can spread wounds around and survive pretty nicely. Crisis suits are basically Marines with cooler guns and an extra wound, and Broadsides are basically Terminators with cooler guns and an extra wound. And up close, you've got krak grenades standard and a power fist that smacks tanks at S8, where disruption pods do nothing. Terminators with cyclone launchers are excellent for this. If you have the points, stick them in a land raider of some sort to rumble at the front of your army, screening everyone else by blocking line of sight.

 

To win objectives games, smash the devilfish into the ground. You need volume of fire to drop tanks in 5e anyway, and all things considered, Tau tanks are similar to Eldar tanks in terms of ability to withstand firepower. Hit them with missiles and meltas until they crash, then clean up the chewy fire warriors inside. They break and run easily. Other than that, focus on getting up close to the Broadsides, which are the slowest suits in the Tau army. They don't get jet packs, so they can't Jump-Shoot-Jump. Bikes essentially get 18" of threat when figuring out the charge, so you should be able to reach them by turn two or so and run them down. To win KP games, stick to cover to make plasma a little less deadly, and create a kill-gap by smashing the heck out of those suits with missiles. Drive your bikes up, unleash melta blasts to kill some suits then drive in to clean up in melee. Very, very, very few Tau units can do squat in melee. Other than power fists, you'll go first every time (except against drones, who are even worse in melee, so no worries there).

[Brother-Captain Sharp]

Yeah, though I do own the DA codex, and almost exclusively play with it, I'm not above using C:SM to fight him if I need to. I've been considering Black and White, but even then all the AP 1 and 2 weapons would be shredding my guys. If I as lucky enough to get first turn, I could use the scout move on the bikes to hopefully get into 1st turn assault, but if I couldn't reach him, or I get second turn, he'll shred my squads. I was considering trying to find some bikers to borrow and play a full Ravenwing against him, just all bikers. They could turboboost across the board and be in charge range for the next turn, while getting the cover save against his low AP weapons. They I can try to pop the vehicles with meltas and engage his suits in CC. What do you think?

 

Edit: Jackelope King proposed a lot of what I'm saying also. Nice ideas. I do hesitate to take Rhinos with the tactical squads, seeing as how they will get autoglanced with his railguns. That means they'e getting popped early, and if the game does end up being a KP game, that'll hurt.

[theredcorsair]

isn't this forum only power armour?

[Mal]

isn't this forum only power armour?

For the most part yes it is.... and we are discussing C:DA/C:SM army builds to use against Tau... since C:DA/C:SM wear PA I don't think we are breaking any rules... do you...

[Frosty the Pyro]

Thoughts:

Melta is your freind. (covered by other folk)

Krak is your freind. (also covered by other folk)

Demolisher cannon will slaughter (2xT, ap1, large blast, if you start your tank up as far as it can go and rush it forward 12, you will be in fire range on second turn in a normal 4' table, it will of course be prime target to be shot up, so questionable usefulness)

A dread is invincible in melle against these folk, if you can get one there, whatever it touches will die (eventualy) and it will be tied up untill it dies.

LRC this is easily the superior option and DA get their multi melta for free. Use them to transport a termie assult squad, if DA go ahead and throw in a reg termie with a heavy flamer/chainfist I am told that the extra bit of pre charge wounding can be a huge help, and chainfist eat vehicles.

 

 

Notes:

He is not runing a special character, thats just a shas'o comander.

Also note if he has a 2+ save, his jetpack move in the assult phase is 1d6 instead of 6. (you say hes a dick so he may conveintly forget this)

The new rules make sheild drones less usefull, make sure he alocates wounds before making saves.

He does not have missle pods, only crises suits (and by extension commanders) can have missle pods, he has smart missles which are str5 ap5, heavy 4.

ALL the smart missles (including the ones on his broadsides) are just a single smart missle system, dispite being represented as two seperate pods, they are NOT twin linked.

[Sgt. Corallis]

As previously said, I think that a combined DW / RW army would do you good. I would take Sammael and tons of bikes, and maybe 1 DW terminator squad, for som heavy hitters. Don't forget that you can turbo-boost with the RW during the scout move, giving you a 3+ cover save if he gets first turn. If he don't you will be in a great position to wreak havoc on his units from turn 1. Or you could just go all ravenwing. My point is that you should try to outmanouver him.

Oh, and bring lots of meltaguns and powerfists.

 

However, do not take Attackbikes or Land Speeders with the bike squads as they are basically free KPs. Just go with the 6 Bikes without combat-squadding.

[Mal]

However, do not take Attackbikes or Land Speeders with the bike squads as they are basically free KPs. Just go with the 6 Bikes without combat-squadding.

 

Landspeeders give a KP, but the attack bikes are a unit upgrade, they are not considered a vehicle, basically they do not give a KP on their own, unless they are taken as a seperate choice. As a unit upgrade they will only give a KP if the whole unit is killed, but that KP isn't for the bike, its for the unit.

[rat of vengence]

Do you have CCW/BP Scouts? If he tends to operate near the flanks, they can be real uselful. Give the serg a powerfist, and they can quite easily handle anything Tau can throw at them in CC. Of course, if they get caught in the open, or rapid fired by pulse rifles, they are going to evaporate. But I use outflanking scouts to do 3 things;

1 Make the other guy nervous about which flank they will come on from. This makes him think twice about deployment, and narrows options for him. Making him react to what you might do stops him completing his own plan.

2 Take out any vunerable squads near the flanks. Since you can charge the turn you appear, I have in the past lined up combo-charges, taking down two firewarrior squads in one go, or a firewarrior and crisis suit combo. Better still, you have a chance of killing one squad and being locked with the other, so you don't get gunned down.

3 Forces him to deal with the scary scouts with gunfire (if they killed something or not!) and not your core units.

 

They don't always work, but the advantage is that there is nothing Tau have that 10 scouts with a powerfist can't hurt.

 

RoV

[travh20]

To the OP,

 

Broadsides can not move, shoot, and move again. They are not jet pack infantry like regular crisis suits. It says in the Tau codex the jet packs are removed from those suits so they can make room for the railguns. They can not do the old move, shoot, then move again behind cover thing. Broadsides move as regular infantry. Not sure if you knew that already.

[Sgt. Corallis]

However, do not take Attackbikes or Land Speeders with the bike squads as they are basically free KPs. Just go with the 6 Bikes without combat-squadding.

 

Landspeeders give a KP, but the attack bikes are a unit upgrade, they are not considered a vehicle, basically they do not give a KP on their own, unless they are taken as a seperate choice. As a unit upgrade they will only give a KP if the whole unit is killed, but that KP isn't for the bike, its for the unit.

 

I was assuming that he was going to use the DA list, in which case the attackbikes are indeed a loose KP as they cannot deploy with the rest of the squad.

The ravenwing attack squadrons use something similar to combat squads for their attackbikes, which pretty much makes them a free KP in annihilation games, and you can't choose wheter to split or not, you actually have to. The codex clearly states that after deployment the attackbike is a separate unit.

[Brother-Captain Sharp]

To the OP,

 

Broadsides can not move, shoot, and move again. They are not jet pack infantry like regular crisis suits. It says in the Tau codex the jet packs are removed from those suits so they can make room for the railguns. They can not do the old move, shoot, then move again behind cover thing. Broadsides move as regular infantry. Not sure if you knew that already.

 

I am aware of that. He has not been trying to do that.

 

isn't this forum only power armour?

Erm, what? Or more appropriately, lolwut? Dark Angels wear power armor.

 

Don't forget that you can turbo-boost with the RW during the scout move, giving you a 3+ cover save if he gets first turn.

No, I can't. It's stated in the codex that RW bikers cannot turboboost in their scout move.

 

I'll get a list posted up later tonight.

 

Quick question:

Would an increase to 1750 or 2000 points help me or him more? I'm sure that he would just take more suits.

[StormTAG]

Lascannons are a good suit killer too, incidentally. Kill even the 2+ save suits stone cold.

 

But engaging his suits is better than sitting back and getting shot by them. Power fists can punch through Crisis suits to the tender juicy Tau inside and Thunderhammers make Tau juice. As has been said, meltas are great. Heavy flamers, too, kill Firewarriors on 2s.

 

A Rhino horde might not be a bad idea, as you can overwhelm his Railguns with loads of armor and smoke is as good as disruption pods. Then dropping 50 marines with Meltas and Powerfists in his face will kill plenty of Suits.

 

Also, is the special character he's taking Shadowsun? I don't remember her rules but she's the one with Fusion blasters and Shield drones, IIRC.

[greatcrusade08]

They don't always work, but the advantage is that there is nothing Tau have that 10 scouts with a powerfist can't hurt.

 

Bike scouts and LSS teams can get in a first turn assault by utilising the infiltrate and scout move special rules before the game starts, throw in some power fists/weapons and meltabombs and you can cause some mayhem...

 

GC08

[Dinamarth]

I don't really have anything productive to add, it's just a shame you have no drop pods or the ability to use ironclads, those are normally what works with me against my Tau buddy. I agree with using Sammael though, he'd be great against both the infantry and the suits (Rending), I always have incredible luck with his TL-AC.