Ignoring Special Characters

[Banville]

Right ladies and gents, as a dedicated and, up to now, long-suffering Salamanders player I must say that I am over the moon with the bold Vulkan and his assorted flamey goodness. However, over the past few weeks I have purposefully left old fire-fingers at home. In friendly games I feel that he is incredibly powerful and I'm met with groans whenever I put him on the table. Like all Marines in the new codex his potency only increases the higher up the points values you go as you can add more meltas and flamers. There's a friendly "gamesday" coming up in my area which basically consists of 3-4 games with the winner judged not just on wins but on sportsmanship, painting, "fluffy" army selection etc etc and I am seriously considering running a list without my favourite character.

 

Does anyone regularly run a list without a Special Character and how does it work for them? In peoples opinion are the "New" marines at a significant disadvantage without Chapter Tactics or does Combat Tactics make up for its loss? I'm basically hoping that these games might be a little more tactically orientated rather than the usual "point-and-click" melta spam or TH/SS lists you run with Vulkan. Don't get me wrong, fluff wise this is how a Sallies army should look, but Vulkan's abilities places it right on the upper tiers of competitiveness.

 

I suppose what I'm really trying to guage is whether dropping Vulkan will make the game tactically more challenging whilst not hamstringing a fluffy Sallies list.

[Blitzkrieg861]

I've only tried a special character once, that was last saturday and his name was Kayvaan Shrike. It didn't work well for me, I got too impatient and did a bad assault that allowed me to get zapped pretty hardcore afterwards.

 

Usually, I take 1 Captain. I'm not sure if this is enough, but even in 2000pt games I've only taken one HQ. They are better than regular marines obviously, but coming from Fantasy... the HQ/Heros/Lords in this game are very underwhelming to say the least. They are hardly worth their points. The only ones I really see as worth the points now are the special characters. Captains are good, but I mean... 100points base?... It just seems like a bit much for me.

 

With that said I am still very new.... and yet to win one. Damn Chaos Space Marines.

[Reinholt]

I very rarely play with special characters, and my win / loss ratio in 5th edition has edged upwards very slightly with my marines against the gaming group I play with, and remains pretty close to overwhelming when I play pickup games.

 

I think most of the special characters are actually overrated in the first place. People fixate on them because they are, of course, big and shiny, but there are two things about them that rather irritate me. The first is the point cost for most characters - my HQ is usually a bone stock librarian, so just about as cheap as it gets for marines. The second is that while some of the chapter tactics can be good (though it varies by foe; I'm not exactly a huge fan of having fleet if I'm facing down a Tyranid horde that wants to run directly at me anyways, for instance), combat tactics is almost always good. Combined with ATSKNF, I feel that marines are actually slowly moving away from becoming the best army for new players (I think that might now be Orks) and moving towards becoming much more of a finesse army if people are going to win with them. The kinds of insanity you can pull off with combat tactics is actually pretty impressive.

 

Overall, I know you can do fine without special characters. I think Vulkan is one of the best, because he reinforces what you would already want to be doing with the army in most cases (which is emphasizing short range firepower and then overwhelming assault units as your points of emphasis), so you might feel a little sting without him at first, but make sure to tinker with some of the others to find out what works.

[minigun762]

Does anyone regularly run a list without a Special Character and how does it work for them?

 

This is coming from a Chaos player who doesn't have characters able to impact their whole army so take it for what its worth.

 

I feel like you could easily do a non-special character and use the points elsewhere.

Grab a naked Chaplain/Librarian/Forge Master and you'll have enough points left over to field a small Predator or Whirlwind

You could take a Captain if you want that Command Squad/Biker Troops or a Master for the Honor Guard.

 

My point is, sometimes a cheaper HQ and more bodies is better than some fancy tricks. Besides if you don't take a Special Character, you're not replacing your Combat Tactics.

[Mal]

well I mainly run DA... and lets face it, our special characters are nice, but nothing special... the only reason to take sammy is RW troopw, Mr.B is DW troops... Ezek is nice, but the ld9 is a lot cheaper and azzie just plain sucks compared to other named.

 

So I always run a chapter master, his equipment changes.... a LOT... but its always the same master.

[Sgt. Corallis]

The only special character I have ever fielded is Pedro Kantor and that was only for 1 game (which went really well, might I add). Otherwise I usually go with a Librarian or a geared-up captain.

I've had very good experiences with the Combat Tactics rule, one such incident involved a 10-man sternaguard unit with attached librarian Drop-podding down in the middle of a tyranid horde, shooting up is broodlord with genestealer backup only to loose 3 men to incoming fleshborers and fall back out of charge range of his entire army . You can sure do some real nice tricks with combat tactics.

Since I've read the Killhammer articles I have grown rather fond of the Captain on bike and a nice fat bike squad as troops and it works really well for me.

[tedwin183]

If I get bored I tend to play special characters. My favorites to use, and incidentally, are the one I pick most often are Lysander, Vulkan and Sicarius. I only bring Lysander if I know for a fact I'm playing one of the two or three guys in my huge gaming group that plays ultra cheese lists so they can win and then rub it in your face. Yes, I have a couple of "THOSE" guys...

 

Lysander usually gives them fits...especially when they do the classic "what's his toughness...?"....I say "4". They say: "Ok...I need 2's to wound..."...I say "alright." They roll at least 1 2 and erupt in laughter and cheers and say "YES! STRENGTH 10!!! INSTA-KILL!"...and I say "Eternal Warrior." And then I end up saving the wound with his 3+ invul anyways. Absolutely my favorite thing to do to those people.

 

 

Anyways, besides that, when I am playing, I tend to use either a captain on a bike...or if its a high point game, sometimes I'll bring a chapter master as an ace in the hole with the orbital bombardment. 2 captains certainly isn't a bad choice. Most other times, I'll bring a captain and a jump pack chaplain with my assault marines. Hardly ever bring special characters though.

[chaplain_quint]

I found out that when I was choosing the wargear for my captain, that the pointscost for him came near the cost for Shrike.

As I was planning to give my Cap a JP and LC's anyway, I decided to go for Shrike. The only thing I don't have now is arty armour.

But the option to fleet an infiltrate/outflank with my assaultsquads weighed to much for me.

[Vissah]

I use Shrike sometimes in bigger point games around 1500 points but in the games under that I just use a Librarian always loved those guys :)

 

Im thinking of an tactic with me Vanguards striking in on my Librarian wich will have to rules of Tigurius but he is so expensive I hardly think he is worth the points.

[chaplain_quint]

In my opinion, unique characters are not worth their points in battles below 1500 pts.

I used Sicarius once in a 1000 pts battle and he didn't exactly won me the tourney.

But in 1500 or larger they could be useful, depending what strategy you are aiming on with your army.

[Marlow]

Does anyone regularly run a list without a Special Character and how does it work for them? In peoples opinion are the "New" marines at a significant disadvantage without Chapter Tactics or does Combat Tactics make up for its loss?

Yes my standard army is a Captain on Bike so that they score and are mobile. As for Combat Tactics overall I have found it a bit of a wash. It can be useful in the Shooting Phase for getting out of range, or the threat that you might use it stops people shooting before Assault. However I have found it mostly useless for actually getting out of Assault when I am loosing since you still have to roll for sweeping advance.

 

I suppose what I'm really trying to guage is whether dropping Vulkan will make the game tactically more challenging whilst not hamstringing a fluffy Sallies list.

The loss of rerolls means you are, on average, going to inflict less damage with each unit so you may need to put a bit more firepower against some units. It depends what HQ you run instead. A chaplin will still give your TH/SS Terminators rerolls. The main advantage of Special Characters is they are so cheap compared to the DIY vertion. Try building Vulkan yourself...

 

185 Points DIY Vulkan HQ - Captain + Storm Shield, Relic Blade, Artifact Armour, Digital Weapons & Aux Gren Launchers (closest to BP & Hevy Flamer)

190 Points Forgefather Vulkan He'stan

[Pasch]

I think people get too polarized about special characters on both sides (the ones that like them, the ones that don't).

 

A better way to look at them is as tools, not crutches. If you include one in your army, you tend to build your army around them since they change how armies play. If you don't use them, then you use other tools and build your army around that. Both are very effective.

 

1500 for many seems to be the point where they start making more sense, below that you can actually end up limiting your army severely instead of opening up new approaches.

 

With the exception of Calgar and Tigurius who honestly seem too expensive for what they give, I find all the Special Characters can be worth their points if you build your list and run your list in a way that makes the most of what you get for them. If you don't want to run them though, just keep in mind that it will change how your list plays.

 

Honestly, unless your friends really get uptight when you play Vulkan, you shouldn't worry about it. Every list and every army has things it can include that induces groans from other people.

[Cairnius]

I don't bother with them. I'm an Ultramarines player...had a primed Calgar model I used a few times and was massively unimpressed by what he did for his points cost. I won't bother with Tigurius because he's only 2 Wounds now. Sicarius doesn't impress me. Cassius is only 2 Wounds as well.

 

I run a Libby in Termie armor. Works fine for me. All I really want him for is Null Zone.

[Marlow]

I run a Libby in Termie armor. Works fine for me. All I really want him for is Null Zone.

I like Null Zone. Force Dome is also good if you are not using Terminator Armour and Gate can be fun. However I find Libbies have really become a suppot character rather than a Leader or a Hero in this edition.

[valhallan42nd]

I run a Libby in Termie armor. Works fine for me. All I really want him for is Null Zone.

I like Null Zone. Force Dome is also good if you are not using Terminator Armour and Gate can be fun. However I find Libbies have really become a suppot character rather than a Leader or a Hero in this edition.

 

A commander is a commander. I like a null zone/gates of infinity librarian because he makes your other troops better. I'm currently debating whether he should be an Epistilatory. I've played 3 games in a row, and he's never needed both powers in the same turn.