Raptor1313 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I'll share some batreps and experience, since I've been working at newer stuff with Daemons. This is the list I ran, at 1850: Skarbrand Fateweaver 5 Fiends 5 Fiends 5 Fiends 7 Plaguebearers 7 Plaguebearers 7 Plaguebearers 7 Nurglings 7 Nurglings Soul Grinder (naked) Soul Grinder (naked) Initial Wave: Skarbrand, Fateweaver, 2 Plaguebearers, 2 Nurglings. Goal is to set up with the big boys on an enemy weak side, with one unit of each nurgle-type near the big boys, and one of each towards the enemy as tarpits. Last Plaguebearers go on my objective. Soul Grinders come in, lock things down in melee (or pulp them) and then Fiends charge, and can hit 'n' run from comat to combat. Their biggest perk (aside from their speed) is their initative; thus they can take advantage of Skarbrand's re-rolls. Enemy: Khornate Chaos Marines 8 'zerkers (w/ fist champ) in Land Raider w/ Termie Lord, Daemon Weapon, Khorne Mark 2 Rhinos (one w/ PLague Marines w/ plasma rifles) (one w/ 10 regular marines; Mark of Chaos Glory, Power Weapon, 2 flamers) 8 Terminators (nasty squad all-around. Khorne Mark, 2 combi-flamer, 2 combi-melta, couple chainfists) 2 Obliterators 7 Raptors; power weapon and 2x flamers Pitched Battle, Capture 'n' Control. Urban terrain; some hills and ruins. Part of this game was textbook 'not quite sure how to deal with daemons', so he made some errors. In fairness, this is a guy I was sort of helping to get started, so I'd exposed him to as many different army-types as I could. (Showed him Vulkan w/ LRC/Hammer-termies, and Ironclad Spam...) He spread out a bit; Plague Marines and Oblits near his objective, Land Raider and Tactical Chaos Marines on other side, about 24" away. I make him go first. Tactical Rhino immobilizes itself on terrain promptly. The Plague MArine rhino lets its cargo off and they move onto the objective; the Rhino then moves to a position where the tac-Chaos boys can board next turn. Land Raider moves up towards my objective, doesn't break itself on terrain. My preferred wave comes in. Everyone lands well, though Fateweaver's a bit further up than I wanted him to be. Still, he's in cover. Nurglings and Plaguebearers are in decent screening positions and Nurglings are ready to tarpit. Turn two, he moves the raptors and tacs in closer. Fateweaver and the nurglings end up going at it with the Oblits and Plaguebearers; Fateweaver takes two wounds and promptly runs back into the warp screaming like a child (...admittedly, I thought he could take out some beat-up oblits. Dumb mistake, to me.) His Land Raider 'zerkers and lord annihilate a squad of Plaguebearers, then Skarbrand goes on to annihilate them, but takes some wounds from the Lord. The time-lapse of it sees Soul Grinders come in early; one gets immobilized and then killed by the raider. the other Grinder takes advantage of the nurgling-pit and kills half the Plague Marines in one turn while the Fist guy is locked with Nurglings; piles in and then kills the rest before the fist swings at him. Then hides from the Land Raider, since it's a bit far and not likely to get there before taking some twin-linked lascannon shots for a few rounds. My reserves arrived in a timely fashion. His termies came in on turn 5, in time to dance with remains of all three fiend units, some plaguebearers. HE did manage to gun Skarbrand down, though by then Skarbrand had directly accounted for -Squad of Berserkers -Khorne Lord -the 'tactical' marines -some raptors I had that last squad of plaguebeaerrs on the objective at the end. If he'd tried to KO those guys, it might've been a problem, but I probably could've gotten Fiends on him in time, and if they'd arrived earlier, they probably wouldn't have been in a position to deal with it. Lessons learned: Fateweaver, while expensive, really needs to be coddled and hide away from reprisals. He's an AMAZING boost to survivability (...no one likes shooting at T5 guys that re-roll a 4+ cover save, and then get Feel No Pain...), and potent shooty platform, but T5, 3+ with re-rolls and his whole 'OH GOD I GOT WOUNDED RUN AWAY RUN AWAY' thing mean he needs kid gloves. He needs to be close. Definitely a learning curve to using him. Skarbrand...I admit to being nervous about him, since he benefits the enemy. However, he also tends to go before a lot of things. He CAN eat full squads, especially if they're WS4 or lower, AND fateweaver is nearby. He's pretty much a guided missile, since a 24" radius means I don't much care about keeping everyone that close. Basically, you bring high I units like Fiends, or durable units (like Soul Grinders or Nurgle units) to offset the re-rolls you hand out. Nurgle Troops: ...tarpits. No more, no less, and good at what they do, albeit Nurglings tend to take fearless wounds rather poorly. Fiends: <3 Lots of attacks, lots of speed. Still relying on the reserve dice, but their flat-out speed means they're not worrying so much about bad scatters. Soul Grinders Cheap at 135, but no real shooting. However, with this build and loadout, their job is to fleet in your general direction and pound your face in. I cry if they're immobilized, and laugh when they're in melee. It's randomness on the deep strike I have to tolerate, but so it goes. For the price and durability, I'll deal with it. Vs. Orks His list was something like... WyrdBoy w/ Warp'ead Big Mek w/ Kustom Force field 15 Lootas 14 Lootas Large Slugga Boy Mob (PK Nob) 2 Shoota Boy Mobz (PK Nob, one w/ Big Shootas, one w/ Rokkits) 19 Grots w/ Runt'erd 2x3 Deffkoptas w/ Rokkits Looted Wagon w/ 'ard Case, Boomgun Battlewagon Setup is Dawn of War, scenario: Annihilation He goes first. Urban setting. Decent cover. Ah, Dawn of War. So glad I went second; going first is just bad news for Daemons in this. We both had about 12 KP in our armies, and it looked to be nasty. Starting from his Right flank, his deployment looks like... Slugga Boys Building Looted Wagon Screen of Grots in front of Shoota Boy Mob. Battlewagon w/ Big Mek, 14 Lootas 15 Lootas Shoot Boy Mob w/ Rokkits Left board edge Deffkoptas outflanking in reserve. I get my chosen half again. Land behind cover, on his right flank. I'm fortunate with my deep strikes. His Sluggas move up and go into Nurglings. My Plaguebearers end up getting into assault with his line of Grot-shields, and manage to run them off the board. I begin rolling up this flank. A Soul Grinder reserves in early turn two, and by turn three it's dodged a Looted Wagon shot, sprinted forward and smashed the wagon. Then it promptly eats Rokkit death, amazingly... By the end of the game, I'll have put Fiends and a Soul Grinder on his far flank to slow it down from its massive, slow, footslogging wheel, and put down more fiends. The fiends get shot up, but one survives and hides. His Deffkopteas end up in assault with an angry SOul Grinder and Plaguebeaers, die, and get run down. At the end of the game, I win by about 6-7 KP to 4-5ish, after 5 turns. Longer would've turned out worse in my favor. I kill... Slugga Boyz Grotz 2 Deff Kopta Units Looted Wagon I lose... Skarbrand 1x Plaguebearers 1x Nurglings 1x Fiend The biggest problem he had was being footslogging. Between the terrain and his forced deployment, there wasn't a lot he could do when I focused on a flank and sunk my teeth in. It could've gone the other way if he'd had the mobility to go for a couple depleted units, though. He also felt there was no real reason to expend lots of fire on Nurglings with a re-rolling 3+ cover save. The fiends got hamstrung by cover this time, but Soul Grinders can ruin Orks bad if they get into melee. AV13 means he needs massed PKs. In my opponent's defense, he was also testing out a new playstyle, including the Looted Wagon. Netiehr of us were thati mpressed with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159211-some-1850-daemon-batreps/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Have you considered daemonettes? Not as good as fiends of course, but with I6 and re-rolls to hit, they could do a lot of damage for a small points cost, re-rollable INV saves is just icing on the cake. Congrats on the wins, though I'm not sure I would have taken nurglings in a non-Epi build, certainly not that many of them anyway. Out of curiosity, do tanks give you any trouble? Your only real anti-tank units are the 'grinders and Kairos, both of whom are surprisingly fragile for their cost. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159211-some-1850-daemon-batreps/#findComment-1866212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Homer Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 to follow up Capt. Malachi...I have been thinking of running Skarbrand + Deamonette/Bloodletter spam. I keep thinking the re-rolls with an I6 model will be very, very nice. EH Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159211-some-1850-daemon-batreps/#findComment-1866308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor1313 Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 @ Malachi The Nurglings are there purely as tarpits. For 91 points, I can throw 21 wounds at people that they've got to wade through. Unless the enemy has flamers or ordnance (and even then, if I can get them near Fateweaver) you'd be surprised how long they can last. In cover, they get a lovely 3+ cover save. I need them to last long enough to get in contact with the enemy and hold him there for Fiends/Soul Grinders. All the abuse they're taking is abuse that more important units AREN'T. As for Daemonettes...I'd thought about them for their grenades (despite the fact I'm not a fan of them, I've come to recognize that they've got some perks). I just feel that I don't have the points to take them in the numbers I'd really want. If I trim my fiends, I can take about 3x10 Daemonettes. T3 vs. T4, same number of wounds, but each wound is several attacks lost. Aditionally, Fiends are much faster, and have the hit 'n' run trick. Malachi, though...you are mistaken about anti-tank... Fiends are anti-tank as well. If the tank's standing still, each Fiend is five S5 hits on the tank. If it's a standard AV10 rear tank, anything in the army past nurglings can attempt to melee it to death, but the Fiends and Soul Grinders have the best chance. Plus, any tank Skarbrand touches is pretty much dead. So for AV10 rear... Skarbrand Fatewever (...who should really be SHOOTING the thing, but he's here for sake of thoroughness...) Fiends Soul Grinders Naturally, Monoliths and Land Raiders are scary, but Soul Grinders can at least threaten them. Fiends can at least TRY to rend them, with S5 + 6 + d3 topping out at 14. It's not great, but it's at least possible, and Fiends have the volume of attacks to do it. I guess one reason I haven't considered daemonettes is because the Fiends have more options because of the strength, and certainly their speed, come to think of it. @Evil Homer You're thinking right; the way to get around Skarbrand's bonuses to the enemy is to kill them before they swing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159211-some-1850-daemon-batreps/#findComment-1866505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Yeah, fiends and Skarbrand are anti-tank, I'd just personally rather have them mulching infantry, though I guess in a pinch they do well. Just bear in mind fiends can't rend monoliths, living metal's a :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159211-some-1850-daemon-batreps/#findComment-1866798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor1313 Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 I'd rather have my fiends feasting on infantry as well, but it's the fact that they CAN handle tanks that makes me like them. They're more reliable at it than Daemonettes, and a lot of things just because the volume of S5 attacks... In general, AV14 is a huge problem for our codex. We can glance it with S8 AP1 shots, glance it with S8 AP3 shots, and throw monstrous creatures at it. Monoliths? I'd rather kill his troops anyway. Fiends are quite capable of at least making Destroyers flinch a little, what with the huge threat range. Land Raiders? I cry a little on the inside, and move on. It's honestly what we kinda get with our Codex in general. We're very good at killing infantry and can do a number on MCs as well, but tanks hurt. Too bad 5th ed is very good to tanks...and we can at least rip 'em up in CC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159211-some-1850-daemon-batreps/#findComment-1866834 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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