blood_raven_240 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Alright, I was playing against Necrons, and my opponent claimed that because his Necron Lord was surrounded by Scarabs, I couldn't see him, so I couldn't fire at him? I mean, with the LoS Rules, he said that his Scarabs blocked the line of sight, despite the obvious height difference that suggested a different result? I was wondering, is this correct? As far as I know, if you can see it, you can shoot it. And boy could I see it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159225-scarabs-interfere-with-los/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Unless the lord has joined the unit (can't remember if you can join scarabs or not, but I don't think you can) then you can fire at him. If he has joined the unit then you have to fire at the unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159225-scarabs-interfere-with-los/#findComment-1866129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
blood_raven_240 Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 I don't think they were Joined :P So, he allocates wounds to all his Scarabs, then when they're all gone, the Lord returns to being an IC and I can target him? Makes sense :) Thanks for clearing up the confusion thing. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159225-scarabs-interfere-with-los/#findComment-1866131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain_quint Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Can't locate any rule that says that a IC cannot join swarms. But this hasn't got anything to do with LoS. Just with a IC being in a unit or not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159225-scarabs-interfere-with-los/#findComment-1866162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Was he possibly arguing that you couldnt see the scarabs and since he was joined you couldnt see him? (Which is wrong by the way). ANy which way you cut it, the scarabs wouldnt prevent you from shooting at them. In fact, if all the scarabs were hidden, and he was joined and he was the only one visable, then all the scarabs are able to be shot at. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159225-scarabs-interfere-with-los/#findComment-1869446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narthecium Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Even if the scarabs were all around the necron lord thick as flies, at best they'd offer him a cover save (which will be inferior to his regular save if I remember right). No units block line of sight except vehicles (and skimmers don't even do that), they simply confer a cover save. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159225-scarabs-interfere-with-los/#findComment-1869683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain_quint Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Even if the scarabs were all around the necron lord thick as flies, at best they'd offer him a cover save (which will be inferior to his regular save if I remember right). No units block line of sight except vehicles (and skimmers don't even do that), they simply confer a cover save. That is why we think he ment that the lord was attached to the scarabs. Other than that, what Nathecium and others said. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159225-scarabs-interfere-with-los/#findComment-1869741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Dan'l Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Even if the scarabs were all around the necron lord thick as flies, at best they'd offer him a cover save (which will be inferior to his regular save if I remember right). No units block line of sight except vehicles (and skimmers don't even do that), they simply confer a cover save. Whoa Batman! Skimmers DO block LoS in 5e. In 4th they didn't but now they are treated as every other vehicle, it's just easier to see past them since they must be mounted on a flying base. So a skimmer in the way will probably give a cover save while a ground vehicle will, probably, completely block LoS. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159225-scarabs-interfere-with-los/#findComment-1869752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divergent Reality Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 the scarabs could, at most, provide a cover save if the lord was not attached and ablative wounds is the lord is mixed with them. why your opponent put a foot lord with scarabs is beyond me, that is commonly the duty of a bug zapper lord. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159225-scarabs-interfere-with-los/#findComment-1869753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narthecium Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Even if the scarabs were all around the necron lord thick as flies, at best they'd offer him a cover save (which will be inferior to his regular save if I remember right). No units block line of sight except vehicles (and skimmers don't even do that), they simply confer a cover save. Whoa Batman! Skimmers DO block LoS in 5e. In 4th they didn't but now they are treated as every other vehicle, it's just easier to see past them since they must be mounted on a flying base. So a skimmer in the way will probably give a cover save while a ground vehicle will, probably, completely block LoS. A scarab is an infantry unit, not a skimmer, Robin. :devil: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159225-scarabs-interfere-with-los/#findComment-1869768 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Dan'l Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Even if the scarabs were all around the necron lord thick as flies, at best they'd offer him a cover save (which will be inferior to his regular save if I remember right). No units block line of sight except vehicles (and skimmers don't even do that), they simply confer a cover save. Whoa Batman! Skimmers DO block LoS in 5e. In 4th they didn't but now they are treated as every other vehicle, it's just easier to see past them since they must be mounted on a flying base. So a skimmer in the way will probably give a cover save while a ground vehicle will, probably, completely block LoS. A scarab is an infantry unit, not a skimmer, Robin. :lol: I'll direct you to your original statement where you write, and I quote, "No units block line of sight except vehicles (and skimmers don't even do that), they simply confer a cover save.". So you'll forgive me if I took that to mean you were saying that Skimmers (a vehicle classification, never used for infantry) do not block LoS. Because, well... That is what you were saying. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159225-scarabs-interfere-with-los/#findComment-1869811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narthecium Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Sorry, I thought you meant the swarms were skimmers, since we're talking about the swarms here. And yeah I was mistaken about skimmers blocking line of sight, still a bit stuck in my 4th ed rules. I'll call us both Batman and Robin in this case lol ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159225-scarabs-interfere-with-los/#findComment-1869835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Pash Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Ok, on a side note, if scarabs are in front of a Lord (not in the same unit) and I wish to fire at the Lord, would he gain a 4+ save for being behind a unit? Seems silly for such a small (ie. short) unit but rulewise... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159225-scarabs-interfere-with-los/#findComment-1869873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narthecium Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Yep sure would, as long as 50% of his body is covered... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159225-scarabs-interfere-with-los/#findComment-1869894 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthawks Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Yep sure would, as long as 50% of his body is covered... he'll get the cover save if ANYTHING on the body of the model (non ornamental) is blocked - 50+% is for units in cover and vehicles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159225-scarabs-interfere-with-los/#findComment-1869995 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelmage99 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 You have really been on a roll these last few days, Narthecium. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159225-scarabs-interfere-with-los/#findComment-1870026 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Democratus Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Also, the Necron Lord could not be surrounded by Scarabs as described above. An Independent Character can not come within 2" of any unit which he can't join. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159225-scarabs-interfere-with-los/#findComment-1870073 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 No units block line of sight except vehicles (and skimmers don't even do that), they simply confer a cover save. I was under the impression that if you couldn't draw LoS at all, to any part of a unit, you couldn't shoot at them, regardless of what was blocking LoS. If (for exmaple) you hid some scouts directly behind enough Terminators, such that the Termy minis were totally blocking LoS to the scouts behind, then you couldn't shoot the scouts. True LoS and all that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159225-scarabs-interfere-with-los/#findComment-1870109 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthawks Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 No units block line of sight except vehicles (and skimmers don't even do that), they simply confer a cover save. I was under the impression that if you couldn't draw LoS at all, to any part of a unit, you couldn't shoot at them, regardless of what was blocking LoS. If (for exmaple) you hid some scouts directly behind enough Terminators, such that the Termy minis were totally blocking LoS to the scouts behind, then you couldn't shoot the scouts. True LoS and all that. True. Also, the Necron Lord could not be surrounded by Scarabs as described above. An Independent Character can not come within 2" of any unit which he can't join. As I understand it, an IC within 2" is attached to a unit able to be attached to automatically. if within 2" of more than one, then the owner must state which one the IC attaches to. I don' tthink that there is a restriction on ICs being within 2" of a friendly model to which they cannot attach. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159225-scarabs-interfere-with-los/#findComment-1870133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Democratus Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 From "Independent Characters Joining & Leaving Units" in the BRB. "If a character does not intend to (or cannot) join a unit, it must remain more than 2" away from it ant the end of the Movement phase." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159225-scarabs-interfere-with-los/#findComment-1870146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 It's fairly easy to surround a single model with scarabs while staying 2" away though, just make a ring, though it does require a lot of scarabs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159225-scarabs-interfere-with-los/#findComment-1870198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narthecium Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 You have really been on a roll these last few days, Narthecium. :) I know, right? I swear I know these rules better than I'm letting on...I've been playing more 5th lately than ever, and been learning more. I just keep EPIC FAILING my face off right now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159225-scarabs-interfere-with-los/#findComment-1870479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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