NemoHac Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 So I was having a look at the deep strike rules today and I noticed that there is nothing in that section that says you cannot place a deep stiking model on another before resolving scatter/mishap. My thought is that they assumed that the mishap events would mean nobody would do so. But since C:SM drop pods simply move off units & difficult/dangerous terrain is there anything stopping you from doing so? Basic example is a MM dread being aimed directly at a tank. Even with max scatter it's guaranteed to be within 12" for the extra AP dice and if you're unlucky then the tank probably can't move fast enough to get outside 12" for your next shot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159392-placing-drop-pods/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I didn't notice that, will have to bring it up with the club owner and GW! Interesting, though... If you do, then you could earn some quick kill points! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159392-placing-drop-pods/#findComment-1868312 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rat of vengence Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 So I was having a look at the deep strike rules today and I noticed that there is nothing in that section that says you cannot place a deep stiking model on another before resolving scatter/mishap. My thought is that they assumed that the mishap events would mean nobody would do so.But since C:SM drop pods simply move off units & difficult/dangerous terrain is there anything stopping you from doing so? Basic example is a MM dread being aimed directly at a tank. Even with max scatter it's guaranteed to be within 12" for the extra AP dice and if you're unlucky then the tank probably can't move fast enough to get outside 12" for your next shot. I would say you can't since the rules say you reduce scatter if it scatters. It says nothing about moving it in any other circumstance, and you cannot stack models. In your example, if you aim directly at the tank and don't scatter, there is no mechanism in the rules for where the drop pod goes, but we know it can't go on the tank. So that would definitely be a case for deepstrike mishaps. Own goal? :P Oh, and while I think of it, you don't reduce scatter for difficult or dangerous terrain. Only impassable terrain. Have another look at p69 of the Codex. :P RoV Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159392-placing-drop-pods/#findComment-1868418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 You can't place a model on top of another model, and the Deep Striking rules specifically state that you have to place one model from the Deep Striking unit on the table. If you can find a gap between two enemy units you can aim to drop there, but you cannot place a model atop another. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159392-placing-drop-pods/#findComment-1868484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Chaos_Brute Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 No, you nominate a point on the table. This means anywhere, including impassable terrain and on units. This would be stupid, except drop pods make it viable and useful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159392-placing-drop-pods/#findComment-1868504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mughi3 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 You can't place a model on top of another model, and the Deep Striking rules specifically state that you have to place one model from the Deep Striking unit on the table. If you can find a gap between two enemy units you can aim to drop there, but you cannot place a model atop another. Unless they have a special rule. the only units that can get around this are tau gun sentries from FW, if they hit an enemy vehicle when the deepstrike in they do an auto glancing hit to it and themselves then scatter away(and they can take a shield generator to negate that to). When it comes to pods you might as well place it right next to where you want it to go anyway since it stops as soon as it touches another model. chances are it will stop right where you put it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159392-placing-drop-pods/#findComment-1868506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rat of vengence Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 No, you nominate a point on the table.This means anywhere, including impassable terrain and on units. This would be stupid, except drop pods make it viable and useful. Okay, so you roll a hit on the scatter dice. Where does the pod go? You can't reduce the scatter distance, and you can't be on top of the unit/tank. The rules don't cover where you put the pod for the simple reason you aren't meant to do this. Besides, nowhere does it say the pod is immune to the mishap table. If you can't reduce the scatter (since it didn't scatter), then you have to roll on the table for the mishap. Like I said, own goal. Let us know if you have an alternate method from the rules for determining where the pod goes. :lol: RoV Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159392-placing-drop-pods/#findComment-1868537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 No, you nominate a point on the table.This means anywhere, including impassable terrain and on units. This would be stupid, except drop pods make it viable and useful. p95, big red book; "First Place one model from the unit anywhere on the table." You do not nominate a point, you must place the Drop Pod in a legal position on the table. You can't place a model on top of another model, and the Deep Striking rules specifically state that you have to place one model from the Deep Striking unit on the table. If you can find a gap between two enemy units you can aim to drop there, but you cannot place a model atop another. Unless they have a special rule. the only units that can get around this are tau gun sentries from FW, if they hit an enemy vehicle when the deepstrike in they do an auto glancing hit to it and themselves then scatter away(and they can take a shield generator to negate that to). When it comes to pods you might as well place it right next to where you want it to go anyway since it stops as soon as it touches another model. chances are it will stop right where you put it. I'm not familiar with the Tau unit in question, but unless thay have a special rule that actually allows you to land them on another unit, that would surely only apply if they first scattered onto the vehicle? And Drod Pods, like any other unit, are not allowed to move within 1" of an enemy unit in the movement phase. DPs are about 4" across IIRC, so you need a 6" gap to land in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159392-placing-drop-pods/#findComment-1868539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightygoose Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 to me logic would dictatethat if the drop pod can survive rapid re-entry and impact with the ground, im sure a rhino wouldnt stop it or even cause it minor damage should it land on one... but i don't think this could be implemented as it allows for a big ole cheese sploit... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159392-placing-drop-pods/#findComment-1868543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arschbombe Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Maybe the upcoming Planetstrike rules will expand on the deep strike rules. I'd like to see rules that allow pods to target units on the ground (at least infantry). I have no idea how to cost it out to make it balanced. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159392-placing-drop-pods/#findComment-1868581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timferius Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 What would be great is being able to tank shock\ram with deep striking drop pods! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159392-placing-drop-pods/#findComment-1868933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luku Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 With drop pods the answer is simple and in the codex.. Choose a point, roll scatter, if land on inpassable terrain/any unit, move the pod the minimum distance to be safe.....so you can aim for a tank and even you get a Hit on the scatter you'll be moved just off to the side of the tank... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159392-placing-drop-pods/#findComment-1868939 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissia Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 /\ And I think we have a winner. Luku is absolutely right. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159392-placing-drop-pods/#findComment-1868960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chapter master 454 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Awww but I want my strength 6 hit on a tank or tank shock in turn 1 :P . Yea I would agree with Luku but it's a serious case of rule bending and to be honest I wouldn't say its something thats gonna make you popular. Anyway, enjoy cheesing it up!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159392-placing-drop-pods/#findComment-1869001 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringewarden Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Deep Strike on top of your opponent's model = we throw mud on you in the parking lot and give you the worst, most insulting nickname in the store, everyone thinks you're a jerk, and you get a stink eye worse than we give the 350-lb. guy who hasn't seemed to have a proper shower in a fortnight or more. don't be a jerk. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159392-placing-drop-pods/#findComment-1869015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 LOL, read it carefully," Should a drop pod scatter on top of impassable terrain or another model (friend or foe!), then reduce the scatter....." In order for the Interial Guidance System to work at all you have to have scattered. If you are on target you have a deep strike mishap. Better to aim for that area between units and if you hit great and if you scatter you still are there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159392-placing-drop-pods/#findComment-1869045 Share on other sites More sharing options...
angronn Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 With drop pods the answer is simple and in the codex.. Choose a point, roll scatter, if land on inpassable terrain/any unit, move the pod the minimum distance to be safe.....so you can aim for a tank and even you get a Hit on the scatter you'll be moved just off to the side of the tank... As Seattle (and a few others) have pointed out, the letter of the rules say the IGS doesn't kick in unless scattering. And as you can't take up the same space as another model, you end up neatly with a Deep Strike Mishap. If you want to take that 1 in 3 chance, go for it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159392-placing-drop-pods/#findComment-1869054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Im confused how you could ever do this in the first place...when you say on another- do you mean on another deep striking model?? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159392-placing-drop-pods/#findComment-1869268 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Culsandar Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Deep Strike on top of your opponent's model = we throw mud on you in the parking lot and give you the worst, most insulting nickname in the store, everyone thinks you're a jerk, and you get a stink eye worse than we give the 350-lb. guy who hasn't seemed to have a proper shower in a fortnight or more. don't be a jerk. Oh come on, like they don't aim at the enemy when they launch those things. This is war, not happy-happy-fun-land. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159392-placing-drop-pods/#findComment-1869306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I think we have established that it is not a good idea. My opponent is welcome to place his deep striking unit on top of my unit anytime, and I cross my fingers and hope for a bulls eye. But according to the rules he would not be allowed to do that. Oh well... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159392-placing-drop-pods/#findComment-1869319 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelmage99 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Just clarifying here. People will have to stop saying; "you chose a point on the battlefield" when it comes to Deep Strike. The wording is; "First place one model....". You cannot place a model in contact with an enemy model unless your are charging. So no, one cannot place a Drop Pod on top of an enemy model before rolling for scatter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159392-placing-drop-pods/#findComment-1869343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthawks Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 BRB P.11 - you cannot move to w/in 1" of an enemy model except when assaulting. I believe that Steelmage99 said it quite succinctly, and the scatter loophole presented by Seattle DV8 is also a deal breaker. no DS targeting of enemy units. it is not a ramming move nor an assault move. The C:SM drop pod is not special in this regard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159392-placing-drop-pods/#findComment-1869403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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