Anders4189 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I'm planning to include a squad of these boys to accompany my captain. He is equiped with relic blade, storm bolters, and artificer armour for that nice high strength, mid int killy power. I am going for a similar them with the command squad, something nice and killy to support him. The load out i have so far for 5 guys is a company champion, two lightning claws, the banner, and the apothacry, all mounted in a razorback with HB. My question is, is this a good load out for a command squad, if not then what would be? Another question, are command squads useful at all? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159613-command-squads/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigrinus Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I my gaming experience Command Squads require a lot of back-up to perform well in the assault role. The shooty role is a lot easier to pull off. I run a cmd squad with four plasma guns. The Apothecary's FNP allows you to reroll failed Gets Hot! saves, which helps justify the points cost. Pair them with a Razorback, and you've got yourself a real killy fire support unit. But going with plasma guns is expensive. As a cheaper alternative, you could use storm bolters. Being able to move and still pump out two shots apiece at 24" is awesome. And at 3 pts per weapon, it's an absolute steal! :lol: To answer your second question: yes they are incredibly useful. But only if used in support of your other harder-hitting units. A command squad's chief limitation is its maximum of five models. In 4th ed, we could put up to 10 in these squads. No more. This means that they aren't as likely to survive a brutal assault even if equipped with lightning claws, power weapons, and so forth. Hence the alternative that I struck upon very quickly: keep them out of CC if at all possible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159613-command-squads/#findComment-1871563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 A Storm Shield or three is always a wise investment in a Command Squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159613-command-squads/#findComment-1871628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anders4189 Posted February 5, 2009 Author Share Posted February 5, 2009 The storm shields just up the price a bunch. That's an extra 45 pts :/. It probably would be easier to go the shooty route, but i would like to have a guard for my commander seeing as i have kitted him for CC. Can any of you help me out with getting a good load out for these guys so they can "get some"? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159613-command-squads/#findComment-1871677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I like to run them on bikes. Something along these lines, to run with a bike-mounted MotF carrying a conversion beamer; Apothecary with Bike, 4 x Bikers with plasma guns (250 points) Excellent mobile fire support, and reasonably tough against non-AP2 (when turbo-boosting they have 3+/3+ saves and FNP). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159613-command-squads/#findComment-1871809 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigrinus Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I'd try a squad with a champion, standard, and two flamers if you want them to "get some." :P Flamers can be better at inflicting casualties on an enemy squad than higher-priced CC gear. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159613-command-squads/#findComment-1871915 Share on other sites More sharing options...
waaanial00 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I'd try a squad with a champion, standard, and two flamers if you want them to "get some." :P Flamers can be better at inflicting casualties on an enemy squad than higher-priced CC gear. After all once these two have BBQ'ed the majority of the squad who really needs backup in assault to finish the job? I run flamers in my command squad but the only time I have used it the squad got targeted for every little bit of fire going, advice is to keep them in the transport for as long as possible because if they peek their heads out too soon they may as well have a big pink neon shoot me sign over them. Take at least one Thunderhammer or power fist in this squad to help you deal with bigger bullies that might try and pin your guys down in CC Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159613-command-squads/#findComment-1872060 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anders4189 Posted February 6, 2009 Author Share Posted February 6, 2009 I'd try a squad with a champion, standard, and two flamers if you want them to "get some." <_< Flamers can be better at inflicting casualties on an enemy squad than higher-priced CC gear. After all once these two have BBQ'ed the majority of the squad who really needs backup in assault to finish the job? I run flamers in my command squad but the only time I have used it the squad got targeted for every little bit of fire going, advice is to keep them in the transport for as long as possible because if they peek their heads out too soon they may as well have a big pink neon shoot me sign over them. Take at least one Thunderhammer or power fist in this squad to help you deal with bigger bullies that might try and pin your guys down in CC That sounds like a good idea. Can a veteran have a flamer and a powerfist? that would be one sweet model :lol: With 2x flamers, 2x power fists (maybe replace one with a LC), champion, banner, and HB razorback is 250 pts flat, so that is not too bad. How does that sound with you guys? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159613-command-squads/#findComment-1872470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 That sounds like a good idea. Can a veteran have a flamer and a powerfist? that would be one sweet model <_< With 2x flamers, 2x power fists (maybe replace one with a LC), champion, banner, and HB razorback is 250 pts flat, so that is not too bad. How does that sound with you guys? Expensive and lacking spare wounds. Make sure you model the banner as a big glowing neon sign that reads "Shoot this first", just to round off the effect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159613-command-squads/#findComment-1872479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I find the hardest thing to do with a Command Squad is justify its points versus its utility. Sure, they're ablative wounds for your captain that you can roll around in a Razorback. It's tough to make them truly close-combat troops, and tough to make them an elite shooty force without overspending on plasma and other big guns that will only attract fire from every part of the board. Personally, I really like the stormbolters suggestion. Cheap and versatile shooting with a high volume of fire. Tent up in your heavy bolter-armed Razor til it pops, and an Apothecary to get rerolls on failed wounds from the death of the Razor, then just keep firing to the last man. The onyl thing I can think of for a CC-oriented command squad would be a captain with a relic blade, apothecary, champion with standard kit, and everyone else with just bolt pistol and chainsword. You'll never make the Command Squad into a CC powerhouse, IMO. But at least this way it's a tarpit that can do some damage with power weapons, and Feel No Pain. The trick is getting them into close combat before they're shot to pieces, since you can only assault out of a Land Raider, and that bad boy will set you back some serious points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159613-command-squads/#findComment-1872706 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anders4189 Posted February 6, 2009 Author Share Posted February 6, 2009 Hmmm, i see your point. i can see how the storm bolters would work. maybe kit the squad with stormbolters and a flamer and throw in 2 lightning claws (what i meant by LC earlier :S) would that work? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159613-command-squads/#findComment-1872986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khorneeq Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Hello, My command squad is comprised of champion with power weapon, veteran with fist and flamer, second flamer, apothecary and spare wound marine. If you really want to put them into CC do it only against non CC units like Thousand Sons (but remember that force weapon will negate your FNP <_< ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159613-command-squads/#findComment-1876241 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannus Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Personally, I think the best way to equip a Command Squad is just the Standard Bearer upgrade and mabe a few other small upgrades (storm bolters or a Champion). Place the unit near the center of your army (effectively surrounded) so the Banner Bearer can affford the re-rolls to faile Ld checks. They can take pot-shots with the storm bolters. When the army is engaged, use the squad to shore up a weak point. The Champion and FNP should be enough to keep the line from breaking (the banner can help here too!). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159613-command-squads/#findComment-1876759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigrinus Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I agree with bannus. On all points. Too often folks make the mistake of putting cmd squads out on their own, which is suicide. They just don't have the wounds to soak up much fire. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159613-command-squads/#findComment-1877316 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anders4189 Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 okay, so after looking at all your suggestions and collective wisedom, i want to suggest the following squad: 5 marines: Banner, Champion, 2x Lightning claws, 2x flamers, mounted in a HB Razor back for 230 pts. i believe i will try to use them as a support assualt unit, withe close support of tactical squads or maybe a dreadnought. My captain will be joining them, so the unit will definatly hold strong moral wise. What do you think of that idea? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159613-command-squads/#findComment-1878608 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 okay, so after looking at all your suggestions and collective wisedom, i want to suggest the following squad: 5 marines: Banner, Champion, 2x Lightning claws, 2x flamers, mounted in a HB Razor back for 230 pts. i believe i will try to use them as a support assualt unit, withe close support of tactical squads or maybe a dreadnought. My captain will be joining them, so the unit will definatly hold strong moral wise. What do you think of that idea? Expensive and lacking spare wounds. Make sure you model the banner as a big glowing neon sign that reads "Shoot this first", just to round off the effect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159613-command-squads/#findComment-1878629 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I like to run them on bikes. Something along these lines, to run with a bike-mounted MotF carrying a conversion beamer; Apothecary with Bike, 4 x Bikers with plasma guns (250 points) Excellent mobile fire support, and reasonably tough against non-AP2 (when turbo-boosting they have 3+/3+ saves and FNP). That's the best command squad option I have heard in a long time! I added it up and that comes to 420pts so it's pretty damn expensive but also pretty damn good too. One question I have though is to take a command squad you need to have taken a captain. Does the Master of the Forge count as a captain then? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159613-command-squads/#findComment-1878639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Nope, no Captain, No command Squad. A MOTF could join these guys, but you need a Captain to purchase them. I use a Captain w/ Bolter, Relic Blade, Etc., Command squad with Champion, apoth, and PGs or other allowable weapons. Often on foot, as cleanup or defender for my deployment zone. My other units are responsible for objectives, or other missions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159613-command-squads/#findComment-1878844 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Fists Captain Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I can see quite a few of these shooty or bike techniques working. However, for an infantry CC squad, I gave up on Command Squads as soon as the new Codex kept squads at 5 man. IMO, it's just not survivable enough to justify it's points cost, especially with any powerful upgrades. I prefer my resilience in power-armoured numbers. Point for point, I much prefer a 9-man Assault squad with a Flamer and PF to support my Lightning Clawed Captain - mmm, free Rhino when sans Jump Pack. Even better with 8-man and a cheap Chappie, for games of more than 2000 points, or when you just want more bite in an assault. This is as the spearhead for my Rhino-borne Bolter Boys (In, Out, Many Bolters, Repeat to taste), or to head off CC-oriented enemy squads if I play defensively. The number of attacks is invaluable for flexibility. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159613-command-squads/#findComment-1878973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryjak Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I have two ideas for a command squad. One is simply four flamers rolling with my P-Fist Captain for offense, the 2nd is a Captain bodyguard consisting of a Champion and 3 guys with Storm Shields and Bolt Pistols. That one will escort the Captain with the big shield and twin-headed Power-Axe. It might not be terribly effective, but it will be hard to kill, and will look pretty cool. Command Squads are all about looking cool anyway. If you really want a HtH Command Squad, upgrade to a Chapter Master, where they can all come with power-weapons... or get everyone a grenade launcher! I still think the most effective option presented is to give everyone a bike and plasmagun, with a MOTF thrown in as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/159613-command-squads/#findComment-1879250 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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