Assault Marines

[Freakiq]

I'm planning on adding an Assault Marine squad to my Crimson Fists army and I've been thinking of different ways of fielding them.

 

Right now I'm thinking of fielding five of them with a Flamer and a Sergeant wielding a Lightning Claw and Storm Shield.

 

I'm planning on running a Jump Pack Chaplain with them for the extra Power Weapon attacks and the rerolls.

 

 

 

Should I increase the squad size, remove the flamer or change the sergeant setup?

[JamesI]

5 man Assault squads tend to die quick. Get 8 or 10.

 

For the sergeant, a power fist is always a good idea.

[Koremu]

Power Fists are generally regarded as de rigeur for an Assault Squad. If you don't take one you almost have to take Melta Bombs and a Power Weapon, which saves not much at all, and leaves you more vulnerable to MCs and the like. The Storm Shield doesn't add much to the Sergeant tbh, because I would be somewhat wary of putting an expensive tooled up Sgt on Krak-catcher duty.

 

I also like Thunder Hammers.

[garreth]

I use 5-men squad with flamer, pair of lightning claws + Chaplain on jumppack as counter-charge.

Or 10-man squad with thunderhammer - it's only 5 pts more than powerfist =)

[Freakiq]

Ok, Power Fist it is then, fits my Crimson Fists anyway. <_<

 

Will get another box of assault marines to increase the squads numbers.

 

 

Is flamers worth the loss of attacks and the possibility of overkilling and leaving you out of reach?

[Reinholt]

My thoughts:

 

1 - Don't bother with the storm shield. As Koremu said above, you don't want to be using the sergeant to take hits unless you have no other option.

 

2 - Take 10 or none. If you really have a burning need for five, you can combat squad, but in general, small close combat squads are going to get squashed when it matters.

 

3 - Take 10 if you are taking a chaplain with them. If you're paying 100 points to get special rules in close combat, you need that to apply to as many people as possible, otherwise you are probably better off with a different HQ; it's not points efficient to take a chaplain to upgrade 5 assault marines.

 

4 - You always have the option to not fire the flamers and bolt pistols if you are worried about someone falling back or being out of range. Just because you have it doesn't mean you must use it. Conversely, you're going to be seriously pissed off if you end up facing Orks or Tyranids and didn't take them. I'd go with the flamers.

[Koremu]

Ok, Power Fist it is then, fits my Crimson Fists anyway. <_<

 

Will get another box of assault marines to increase the squads numbers.

 

 

Is flamers worth the loss of attacks and the possibility of overkilling and leaving you out of reach?

 

I almost always find Flamers worthwhile. The attack loss is nothing compared to the potential of the Flamer.

 

The Plasma Pistol does have its plus points though. For a start, 2 Plasma Pistols can make a pretty effective tool for popping Light (AV 10 or 11) vehicle targets - including most transports. That then allows you to follow up assault into the now disembarked Infantry. You can even damage a Dreadnought from behind with them, and an imobilised result against a Dreadnought means that the Squads Krak Grenades come into play.

[brgerkng]

I would agree with the points above. Personally, I think assault marines are great for what they cost and you always want to take the full unit. However, I feel that they will generally be outdone by specialized close combat units of similar size from other armies. Granted having a "fair-fight" is generally a bad idea in 40k.

 

For weapons, during a game you will rarely go "darn, I wish I didn't bring a flamer". While I haven't fielded plasma pistols recently I would say they are not as "auto-take" as flamers, or meltaguns for Blood Angels vet assault marines and Chaos raptors. There are situations they would be nice to have but I tend to not set the points aside for them.

 

The chaplain is almost always a good idea. While not as nasty as he was in 4th he still makes a assault squad a bigger threat. Most of the time I'm taking both the assault squad and the chap or neither.

[Jackelope King]

My assault squad runs 10 marines in size and always packs two flamers. An assault squad is there to rip through light infantry, with a power fist on the sergeant for insurance against fatter infantry, so being able to spray two flamer templates before the charge is just golden. I mean, 8 bolt pistol shots is pretty nice too, but a pair of flamers is just golden. Popping light vehicles with plasma pistols is nice, but really, if you want to do that, your whole squad has krak grenades and the captain wears a power fist: you can do it in a round of melee anyway.

[Koremu]

Popping light vehicles with plasma pistols is nice, but really, if you want to do that, your whole squad has krak grenades and the captain wears a power fist: you can do it in a round of melee anyway.

As I said, mostly the AV use of Plasma Pistols is to aid in trasport popping so you can Assault the transported unit in the same turn. And Krak grenades suck against Dreadnoughts and vehicles moving at cruising speed. Immobilisation result are prefered to make Dreadnoughts face standard WS checks against Krak Grenade assaults, and a weapon destroyed result allows you to remove its DCCW, halving its STR and allowing you to take armour saves against its attacks.

[Captain Cabble]

When I use mine I take 9 guys with just the sergeant upgraded to carry a pair of lightning claws and a Chaplain with jump pack to lead them and they always do me proud. The sheer number of re-rolls from this combo on the charge has proven to be highly effective, as long as you choose your targets wisely and focus some firepower on nearby supporting units to reduce the countercharge threat these guys really can be a game winner, just remember that like all marines they work best in conjunction with other units - leave them out to to get shot at and they're numbers will fall quickly, and a small unit of assault marines isn't much use.

Oh, and I always give the chaplain and sergeant melta bombs, so that if the numbers get whittled down to a point they aren't going to be that effective in assault anymore they can go tank hunting.

 

CC.

[StormTAG]

Give the 10 man squad with 2 flamers and a Thunderhammer in an army that includes Vulkan or a count as.

 

2 Rerollable flame templates, 8 Bolt Pistols, 3 Mastercrafted Thunderhammer and 25 Str 4 WS 4 attacks later and something is usually not there. Comes in at a cool 240. Add a Rhino Tac squad with melta/multi-melta and a power-fist and you have a mobile wall to hide behind and someone else to crack open the armor. 475 for the whole detachment. One of my bread and butters (even if the Assault Sergeant looks like he has a power-fist right now. :P )

[monkey boy]

I always take ten if I take any at all, and they always have two flamers the horde eating ability of two flamers is just amazing, and they are almost always lead by a chaplian, they are my hammer. I don't like terminators as they pretty much require a land raider and I don't want to spend that much (points or money) on a uber unit, so the hard work is left to my assault chappy unit, and they do a good job! As already said they require support though.

[Anders4189]

After looking at this, i believe i will be fielding my Assualt Squad with 2x flamers and a power fist. Thanks for the indirect help guys xD

[Freakiq]

After looking at this, i believe i will be fielding my Assualt Squad with 2x flamers and a power fist. Thanks for the indirect help guys xD

 

 

Grr, this thread is only supposed to help me, it's mine! :huh:

 

 

Seriously though thank you guys, I'll too go 2x flamers and a power fist, seems to be the most destructive and versatile build.

[backno]

10 man, 2 flamers, power fist. shields ar a waste of 15 points when you have 9 other guys to soak up hits.

[Koremu]

After looking at this, i believe i will be fielding my Assualt Squad with 2x flamers and a power fist. Thanks for the indirect help guys xD

 

 

Grr, this thread is only supposed to help me, it's mine! :cuss

 

 

Seriously though thank you guys, I'll too go 2x flamers and a power fist, seems to be the most destructive and versatile build.

 

Actually, the top slot has to be to go one better and bring a Thunder Hammer. But the powerfist is generally fine. ;)

[foster]

If I ever go back to using Assualt squads for CC I would take 10 men, Thunder Hammer, Plasma Pistol, two flamers and a JP chappy. May not be as durable as an Assualt Termie squad with crusador or as good as taking out MCs, but they're cheap and can dish out the pain just as well.

[Reinholt]

My squad rolls with a Power Fist and 2 Plasma Pistols, myself, but I strongly endorse the flamer version as well.

 

Both are strong, and you really can't go wrong with the flamers as Orks continue to show their ugly green faces in the game.

[HERO]

10x ASM with PF is 215 points of greatness.

[Cornishman]

5 extra points for the Thunder Hammer will often pays huge dividends. Reducing a wounded MC to initiative 1 is really really useful. This gives all your squadies a chance to take it out (yes unlikely but can easily happen) before the MC takes out several more members of your squad, always a useful thing particularily against CC fexes and Tyrantts. Against tanks the extra bonus shaken result may not seem like much but it does mean that if the tank survives then it's only offensive option is tank shock. As for the Storm Shield, personally I run a Thunder Hammer + Storm Shield Sarg, mainly because it looks cool, but that 3+ Invulnerable isn’t there as a krak sink (though if he needs to take a wound it’s a good a one as any), but to maximise his staying power. Thanks to it he's stayed a lot longer vs CC terminators and MC's.

[Brother Pax]

The Plasma Pistol does have its plus points though. For a start, 2 Plasma Pistols can make a pretty effective tool for popping Light (AV 10 or 11) vehicle targets - including most transports. That then allows you to follow up assault into the now disembarked Infantry.

 

We had this come up recently and I got in touch with GW FAQ and they said "You only assault the unit you shot at and a vehicle and squad are two different units. If you shooting kills the tank you cant assault however if it survives you can then assault the tank"

[JamesI]

The Plasma Pistol does have its plus points though. For a start, 2 Plasma Pistols can make a pretty effective tool for popping Light (AV 10 or 11) vehicle targets - including most transports. That then allows you to follow up assault into the now disembarked Infantry.

 

We had this come up recently and I got in touch with GW FAQ and they said "You only assault the unit you shot at and a vehicle and squad are two different units. If you shooting kills the tank you cant assault however if it survives you can then assault the tank"

The rulebook clearly states if you kill a transport in shooting you can assault the unit that had been in the transport that turn.

[Koremu]

The Plasma Pistol does have its plus points though. For a start, 2 Plasma Pistols can make a pretty effective tool for popping Light (AV 10 or 11) vehicle targets - including most transports. That then allows you to follow up assault into the now disembarked Infantry.

 

We had this come up recently and I got in touch with GW FAQ and they said "You only assault the unit you shot at and a vehicle and squad are two different units. If you shooting kills the tank you cant assault however if it survives you can then assault the tank"

Then GW FAQ were talking outta their collective arses. p67, column 2, para 6, BRB;

 

"If a Transport is destroyed (either result) by a ranged attack, the unit that shot it may assault the now disembarked passengers, if it is allowed to assault accoding to the assault rules."

[Reinholt]

I once played a little trick on GW regarding calling them about rules.

 

My friends and I cooked up a relatively complex (not insane, but something about how to allocate attacks in assault) scenario that we actually knew the answer to precisely from the rulebook. It was a touch ugly, but nothing that required any rocket science. We then called GW about it on three different occasions. On those three different occasions, we got three different answers, one of which mirrored the rulebook exactly, two of which did not (and one of which was clearly totally wrong, as it had a powerfist guy going first!).

 

I advise a high level of skepticism about what you hear. With that said, the rulebook (as cited by Koremu) is pretty clear about your ability to then assault the unit.