Long Fangs Shooting Support

[13thWarrior]

I am comparing Long Fangs (numbering 4) to WolfGuard Bodyguard ...

 

I had == REDACTED - JUVENILE & NONCONSTRUCTIVE == I would place this shooty unit up on a plateau with a RunePriest.

The Long Fangs are armed with 2 Missile Launchers (or any other Hvy), the Pack Leader with Bolter, and WolfGuard with Bolter;

this costs 145 points and can Split Fire.

 

WolfGuard Bodyguard can almost the same job tho.

Two armed with Missile Launchers (or any other Hvy) and two armed with Bolters;

this costs 144 points. They can only target one unit but are much better in Assault (10 Att 12 on the Charge 14 on the Counter!)

 

Hmm ...

[Max_Dammit]

No use to give the leader a bolter, he cant shoot it and split fire so they cost the same.

 

Its an interesting Idea, and i have no idea :D

[13thWarrior]

So that would bring the point cost down to the same (Laughing).

 

I guess it comes down to a Hvy Support Choice or an Elite Choice (tho I already run WG so the choice is already taken)

[Bran Scalphunter]

All Wolf Guard use up one Elites slot- so yeah, it's whether or not you want a HS in your army?

[Grey Mage]

Actually its the cost of the HQ thats the difference. Your above squad doesnt include a WGBL or other, and thus isnt a legal unit. The Long Fangs are. WGBL are expensive heavy weapon carriers, and IMHO makes the unit even less bang for its buck. My Hvy Squad should never see close combat anyways.

[WolfGeezer]

Key advantage of the WG is the ability to take Runic Charms and double your survivability against AP4 or worse for 20 points and to protect your Rune Priest in CC. Personally if I'm going to shell out on 4 WG I'm going to want to bung on a couple of combi-plas and DP them, but would be interesting to see how they do. I could see them ensuring you can at least contest a rear objective while the rest of your army plough on, which Long Fangs will struggle with even when backed by a RP as he'll be singled out quick by anything useful in CC.

[stinkenheim]

for more flexibilty (althoug more points obviously) give the 2 hvy weapon carriers terminator armour and cyclone missile launchers, then you've got a mobile fire unit that pumps out the same amount of shots as the long fangs but isnt static...

[Vassakov]

Personally I would go with Brother Stinkenheim's suggestion - TDA and Cyclones plus a couple of TDA with Combi Weapons gives you a much more versitile, survivable unit. LF's and WG are just not survivable enough - if you want a unit capable of that sort of fire, spend the points and do it properly. You'll thank us for it.

 

Also, they are Terminators so if the enemy make it to Combat all is not lost. Try giving the Cyclones SS's and a LC each and watch the look on his face!

[JEFF4i]

This is an idea of Vrox that I've used, but toss in a leader with Storm Shield and 4 wolves and knocking down the entire Long Fang Pack is going to be very difficult. However, if this is just for 1000 point game, it won't be much worth it. I'd say 1500+

[Grey Mage]

Vass, you cant give the cyclones two more weapons.... wolf gaurd only get two total.

 

I do reccommend the WGBL+BG w/ Cyclones for a fire support/spearhead unit though. Throw in a few wolves just in case.... it runs around 450pts though.

[13thWarrior]

Actually its the cost of the HQ thats the difference. Your above squad doesnt include a WGBL or other, and thus isnt a legal unit. The Long Fangs are. WGBL are expensive heavy weapon carriers, and IMHO makes the unit even less bang for its buck. My Hvy Squad should never see close combat anyways.

 

 

I'm really looking to add these to my Rune Priest ...

[Megalodon]

Wolf Guard while awesome are over used, Long Fangs earn you Kool points! Never argue with the Rule of Kool!

 

I'm firm believer that Long fangs are the awesomesauce in the hands of a competent Wolf Lord.

[dragon950]

There really is no point in giving your long fangs a wolf guard leader. Long fangs aren't meant to be in combat and they already have ld. 9. So you would just be spending points that could be spent elsewhere.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Vass, you cant give the cyclones two more weapons.... wolf gaurd only get two total.

 

IIRC FAQ, they can take cyclone, storm bolter, and a melee weapon.

[Grey Mage]

Vass, you cant give the cyclones two more weapons.... wolf gaurd only get two total.

 

IIRC FAQ, they can take cyclone, storm bolter, and a melee weapon.

 

Wich is most definitely not the Storm Shield and Lightning Claw that he mentioned.

 

Also, the faq doesnt state they can take a stormbolter and an additional one handed weapon, but merely that they can select a stormbolter along with the cyclone. This is a rules change as technicly the strombolter is a two handed weapon, and thus the wolf gaurd would have to two two handed weapons.... a normally illegal build.

[ImRuined]

Vass, you cant give the cyclones two more weapons.... wolf gaurd only get two total.

 

IIRC FAQ, they can take cyclone, storm bolter, and a melee weapon.

 

Wich is most definitely not the Storm Shield and Lightning Claw that he mentioned.

 

Also, the faq doesnt state they can take a stormbolter and an additional one handed weapon, but merely that they can select a stormbolter along with the cyclone. This is a rules change as technicly the strombolter is a two handed weapon, and thus the wolf gaurd would have to two two handed weapons.... a normally illegal build.

 

This argument is mute... Just look at your typical Vanilla marines, Cyclone, Stormbolter and Powerfist... 'Nilla Termies, and in fact Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Black Templar ADD the Cyclone to their existing weaponry, and it is only the out-dated nature of the Wolf codex that stops us doing the same without someone pulling this sort of prank...

 

Anyone who wishes to argue against a Wolf Termie taking a Cyclone and 2 other Termie legal weapons, be it a Storm Bolter and Powerfist, or even a Storm Shield, should be referred to page 2 of the BGB, the grey section at the very top titled 'The Most Important Rule' where, to summarise, GW state that provided it's not clearly illegal, let it stand and play on and have fun... Enjoying the game is more important than winning all the time...

 

I'd also remind them of the fact that all equipment referenced in both the Wolf codex and Space Marine Codex use the SM Codex as it is the most up-to-date material... In which case, Cyclone + 2 other Termie Legal weapons is the standard equipment load out... Space Wolf Termies have access to the Armory, and, at present (can see it changing with 5th Ed codex) Storm Shields... We also pay a ton of points for the previlege of doing so and actually pay more points than a Nilla Termie with a Cyclone, Storm Bolter and Power Fist even when taking the same equipment load out as a Nilla Termie!

 

Anyone who tries to pull this argument is rules lawyering and merely trying to work things to their advantage in order to handicap an outdated opponent and, in my oppinion, not worth playing against...

[Grey Mage]

The problem is that it IS clearly illegal. You dont get to take weapons or options that arent listed. Otherwise my Eldar Farseer would be toting a lascannon as well as his psychic powers. And no, there isnt a difference- its either a listed option or its not.

 

Ive said it before and Ill say it again, do what you want with your mates but that doesnt make it RAW.

 

RAW is that nothing, not a single thing is listed as having any hands in codex space marine, but it is in codex space wolves. So we select our gear as legal from our lists. If we dont then we deserve the shouts of cheese and the request that we use 3rd edition rules for our equipment.

 

And yes, Im very well aware we pay more for our termies. Its one of the reasons why I wont listen to people complain about them. Five of ours cost as much as 8-10 of theirs. That doesnt mean Ill cheet, and I wont guilt trip anyone into letting me either.

[ImRuined]

The problem is that it IS clearly illegal. You dont get to take weapons or options that arent listed. Otherwise my Eldar Farseer would be toting a lascannon as well as his psychic powers. And no, there isnt a difference- its either a listed option or its not.

 

Ive said it before and Ill say it again, do what you want with your mates but that doesnt make it RAW.

 

RAW is that nothing, not a single thing is listed as having any hands in codex space marine, but it is in codex space wolves. So we select our gear as legal from our lists. If we dont then we deserve the shouts of cheese and the request that we use 3rd edition rules for our equipment.

 

And yes, Im very well aware we pay more for our termies. Its one of the reasons why I wont listen to people complain about them. Five of ours cost as much as 8-10 of theirs. That doesnt mean Ill cheet, and I wont guilt trip anyone into letting me either.

 

Don't get to take options that aren't listed? ;)

 

It's clearly stated that Wolf Guard may take any equipment allowed from the Space Wolf Amory... The point in question here, is whether that means a Wolf Guard Terminator with a Cyclone Launcher is penalised, over their Codex brethren, and only allowed a single weapon in addition to their Cyclone launcher (which still costs more in most cases than a codex Terminator with a Cyclone Launcher) due to the out-dated Space Wolf Codex...

 

I'm not promoting giving them anything other than those weapons permitted to be used by a Termie... My argument is that the Space Wolf codex is still using a weapons profile and rules which, in 3rd Edition, only allowed a single weapon in addition to a Cyclone Launcher, however, since 4th Edition, Codex chapters have been able to field Cyclones + 2 additional weapons and can even fire their Cyclones simultaneously with another ranged weapon... This makes clear GW's intent on how Cyclones should be deployed and preventing an opponent from doing so is merely a very blatant and ill spirited attempt to get an advantage due to outdated rules...

 

Bringing up RAW is rules lawyering and once again, merely an attempt to twist an out-dated codex to your own benefit...

 

Something I'll add here, my version of the Space Wolf codex states that a Wolf Guard Terminator taking a Cyclone Launcher may take a Storm Bolter as a one-handed weapon, which, as it's no longer considered to be a 2 handed weapon, allows another 1 handed weapon by your previous argument... Furthermore, if you refer back to the Space Wolf Armory, Storm Shields and a single Lightning Claw are indeed classified as 1 handed weapons, so the concept of equipping them both is entirely justified and legal under your 'concept' of hands...

 

And before you start yelling cheese! for me arguing this point... A WGBL taking heavy weapons is a whole factory's worth of cheese! despite GW allowing this in an FAQ... I refuse to use this as I beleive this is not in the proper spirit of the game.. I'm also certain this FAQ rule will not survive the 5th Ed Codex when finally released so don't see the point, other than to gain an advantage over my opponent...

[Vassakov]

I think the problem is that under the old codex, a Cyclone had a targeting system that was incorporated into a "hand" - it no longer does so under the new C:SM, it is purely additional.

 

Personally, GM, I can't find a RAW arguement to support your posistion. As no actual rules are present in C:SW for the use of the Cyclone, I refer to C:SM where again, there is no reference to a cyclone inhibiting how many weapons you can take. Of course, there isn't a RAW arguement for this either - the best I can offer is that C:SW tells us to refer to C:SM for wargear options, and as we can see there uses no hands.

[stinkenheim]

I personally don't have a problem with someone using a wolf guard temrie with cml, power fist and storm botler as it is an identical fit to the nilla marines termies... where it does start getting cheesy is haveing termies with th+ss armed with a cml, or lc+cml but i'd never stop my opponent using it, i just wouldn't myself.

if GW hadn't left us with a codex two editions out of date there wouldn't be so many disputes but thats neither here nor there... all i'm saying is i have no issue with people equiping thier termies in the same way as vanilla marines.

[Grey Mage]

I think the problem is that under the old codex, a Cyclone had a targeting system that was incorporated into a "hand" - it no longer does so under the new C:SM, it is purely additional.

 

Personally, GM, I can't find a RAW arguement to support your posistion. As no actual rules are present in C:SW for the use of the Cyclone, I refer to C:SM where again, there is no reference to a cyclone inhibiting how many weapons you can take. Of course, there isn't a RAW arguement for this either - the best I can offer is that C:SW tells us to refer to C:SM for wargear options, and as we can see there uses no hands.

Something I'll add here, my version of the Space Wolf codex states that a Wolf Guard Terminator taking a Cyclone Launcher may take a Storm Bolter as a one-handed weapon, which, as it's no longer considered to be a 2 handed weapon, allows another 1 handed weapon by your previous argument... Furthermore, if you refer back to the Space Wolf Armory, Storm Shields and a single Lightning Claw are indeed classified as 1 handed weapons, so the concept of equipping them both is entirely justified and legal under your 'concept' of hands...

 

And before you start yelling cheese! for me arguing this point... A WGBL taking heavy weapons is a whole factory's worth of cheese! despite GW allowing this in an FAQ... I refuse to use this as I beleive this is not in the proper spirit of the game.. I'm also certain this FAQ rule will not survive the 5th Ed Codex when finally released so don't see the point, other than to gain an advantage over my opponent...

Im not saying its cheesy, Im saying its illegal. Its a perfectly reasonable idea, and would be worth its points... and it would be expensive. We just plain cant.

 

The rules Im citing have nothing to do with the weapons profile, but rather for the rules of equiping our Wolf Gaurd. It plainly states that ALL heavy weapons, terminator or otherwise are two handed weapons in the Wolf Gaurd entry. It also states on the armory page that we may have either two one handed weapons, or one single handed weapon and one two handed weapon.

 

Thus we cannot take a heavy weapon, of any kind, and two other weapons. No wolf gaurd can have more than two weapons. And yes, in our codex a storm shield is a weapon. I know its in wargear in the SM codex, however youll notice that it takes up one of their weapon slots too.

 

I love the CML+ 2LCs idea personally, and want one for myself. Its just not legal.

 

And for the last time... to my advantage? Im a spacewolf player, sodd off. If it was possible Id love it, its just not.

[walpurgisnacht]

The models at hand for my wolfguard bodyguard consisted of two assault cannon and lightning claw and two pelted stormbolter and frost blades. Usually guarding my Runepriest . All in Terminator armour. and yes, Virginia, it is expensive...but darn fun! Cover from RP controlled some long range stuff, mid-range was targeted for illumination. As in through them. Very shooty. And didn't put funky weapons combos on the RP if he didn't need it, kinda wasted points really. If the RP is shooting, he's not casting a snow storm aka the Fenrisian Snow Dance. Whist a bold move to field this, usually just to fill obligatory HQ, the wolfguard actually inflict some rather nasty scores on whatever the enemy decides to move in.

The model at hand for my Longfangs are as follows: Lascannon, Plasma Cannon, Missile Launcher, spec. model Longfang action pose with flamer...I know you can laugh and poke fun and say what you may, but it worked. And yes the guy carrying the assault weapon in a Heavy squad took the first wound. Followed by the Plasma and what do you know? The ancient warriors bow out in battle, assuredly going to join Russ in the Wolftime! But couldn't they earn some kills first! DOH!

I play them anyway for the story of progression into the pack.

[ImRuined]

Im not saying its cheesy, Im saying its illegal. Its a perfectly reasonable idea, and would be worth its points... and it would be expensive. We just plain cant.

 

The rules Im citing have nothing to do with the weapons profile, but rather for the rules of equiping our Wolf Gaurd. It plainly states that ALL heavy weapons, terminator or otherwise are two handed weapons in the Wolf Gaurd entry. It also states on the armory page that we may have either two one handed weapons, or one single handed weapon and one two handed weapon.

 

Thus we cannot take a heavy weapon, of any kind, and two other weapons. No wolf gaurd can have more than two weapons. And yes, in our codex a storm shield is a weapon. I know its in wargear in the SM codex, however youll notice that it takes up one of their weapon slots too.

 

I love the CML+ 2LCs idea personally, and want one for myself. Its just not legal.

 

Alright, I'm gonna quote my codex 'rules as written'...

 

Under Wolf Guard heavy weapons :

 

Upto one in three models in the Wolf Guard bodyguard (rounding fractions up) may be armed with one of the following heavy weapons each. Models armed with heavy weapons may not use any other weapons (unless equipped with Terminator Armour when they may select additional weapons from the Armory) and cannot ride bikes.

 

Interesting little point, it states additional weapons and not an additional weapon if in Terminator Armour.

 

Terminator Heavy Weapons (may only be taken by a Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour): .... cyclone missle launcher for +X pts (may also purchase a storm bolter as a one-handed weapon).

 

It states NO WHERE that heavy weapons are two handed weapons, merely that a Wolf Guard cannot take any other weapons while armed with a heavy weapon, unless in Terminator Armour where they may select additional weapons from the Armory. It also goes on to say that a Storm Bolter may be purchased as a one-handed weapon if taking a Cyclone Missle Launcher...

 

Additional Weapons + one handed storm bolter = storm bolter and powerfist/LC etc in my understanding... This would also make a Storm Shield+LC combo legal...

 

 

Under the Armory, the rule only states that Characters are limited to a total of two weapons, only one of which may be a 2 handed weapon... Characters, in my understanding, would refer to your IC's, and a Wolf Guard bodyguard Terminator touting a Cyclone is a seperate case as they Heavy Weapon has it's own rules...

 

I've even gone so far as to run this by my local GW store, playing devils' advocate and arguing your very points... They pretty much agreed with the stance that since Codex: Space Marines allows 2 weapons + a Cyclone, it supercedes the Space Wolf Cyclone profile and is perfectly legal to take a Cyclone plus any other legal equipment options, albeit, very pricey...

 

Something else which has just occured to me... I'll also refer you to the Space Wolf codex, under the Space Wolves Wargear page, it states that any items not listed on that page function exactly as described in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook or Codex: Space Marines. Now that is a direct 'rules and written' quote from the Space Wolf codex, and on this basis, using the Cyclone as described in Codex: Space Marines is perfectly legal and would allow the selection of 2 weapons, as the Cyclone allows the bearer to maintain their original 2 weapons in C:SM... Since Wolfguard do not have default weapons, it's logical to take the stance that you would instead select 2 additional weapons from the Armory, as stated within their entry...

 

Honestly, this is all academic anyway... 5th Edition will certainly see this fixed, as everything I've heard suggests that GW are 'standardising' the SW codex and giving all packs set equipment options and upgrades...

 

And for the last time... to my advantage? Im a spacewolf player, sodd off. If it was possible Id love it, its just not.

 

Damn'd funny way of showing it... You approach to this suggestion was very antagonistic and smacked of your typical rules lawyer trying to handicap their opponent...

[Grey Mage]

Alright, I'm gonna quote my codex 'rules as written'...

 

Under Wolf Guard heavy weapons :

 

Upto one in three models in the Wolf Guard bodyguard (rounding fractions up) may be armed with one of the following heavy weapons each. Models armed with heavy weapons may not use any other weapons (unless equipped with Terminator Armour when they may select additional weapons from the Armory) and cannot ride bikes.

 

Interesting little point, it states additional weapons and not an additional weapon if in Terminator Armour.

The reason for the plural is, like in most cases with GW books, that multiple wolf gaurd can be equiped with heavy weapons. This is simply how the english language works.

 

Terminator Heavy Weapons (may only be taken by a Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour): .... cyclone missle launcher for +X pts (may also purchase a storm bolter as a one-handed weapon).

 

It states NO WHERE that heavy weapons are two handed weapons, merely that a Wolf Guard cannot take any other weapons while armed with a heavy weapon, unless in Terminator Armour where they may select additional weapons from the Armory. It also goes on to say that a Storm Bolter may be purchased as a one-handed weapon if taking a Cyclone Missle Launcher...

Actually it does-

"Wolf Gaurd Heavy Weapons: Up to one in three models in the Wolf Gaurd bodygaurd (rounding fractions up) may be armed with one of the following heavy weapons each. Models armed with heavy weapons may not use any other weapons and cannot ride bikes. All heavy weapons count as "two handed weapons" with regard to other options allowed from the Armoury."

 

Additional Weapons + one handed storm bolter = storm bolter and powerfist/LC etc in my understanding... This would also make a Storm Shield+LC combo legal...

No... because its three weapons. You are rules lawyering on the concept that a wolf gaurd is not a character. It does not state anywhere that the rules for Wolf Gaurd are any different than those for IC's. Instead it states the general rule, and then splits into the fact that ICs pay one price and WG pay another.

 

Wolf Gaurd are characters. There is no rule for charcters in 40k. Those were, like alot of things, washed out of 4rth and 5th ed. However in the sense that it used to be included they are characters- as that includes unit seargents, and others who had access to their armories such as chaos chosen.

 

Under the Armory, the rule only states that Characters are limited to a total of two weapons, only one of which may be a 2 handed weapon... Characters, in my understanding, would refer to your IC's, and a Wolf Guard bodyguard Terminator touting a Cyclone is a seperate case as they Heavy Weapon has it's own rules...

However they are intrinsicly connected. As an example, WGBL's can RAW take a Heavy weapon from the WG section.

 

I've even gone so far as to run this by my local GW store, playing devils' advocate and arguing your very points... They pretty much agreed with the stance that since Codex: Space Marines allows 2 weapons + a Cyclone, it supercedes the Space Wolf Cyclone profile and is perfectly legal to take a Cyclone plus any other legal equipment options, albeit, very pricey...

I dont care what the people are your game store said, mine are ok with it too for that matter... it doesnt mean its RAW, it means my mates are cool with it and if I want play it in a friendly game... then cool. At a tournament, with people who come from the other side of the state showing up... it might not be so cool.

 

Something else which has just occured to me... I'll also refer you to the Space Wolf codex, under the Space Wolves Wargear page, it states that any items not listed on that page function exactly as described in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook or Codex: Space Marines. Now that is a direct 'rules and written' quote from the Space Wolf codex, and on this basis, using the Cyclone as described in Codex: Space Marines is perfectly legal and would allow the selection of 2 weapons, as the Cyclone allows the bearer to maintain their original 2 weapons in C:SM... Since Wolfguard do not have default weapons, it's logical to take the stance that you would instead select 2 additional weapons from the Armory, as stated within their entry...

 

Honestly, this is all academic anyway... 5th Edition will certainly see this fixed, as everything I've heard suggests that GW are 'standardising' the SW codex and giving all packs set equipment options and upgrades...

It doesnt matter how sqauds in C:SM are set up, with the exception of scouts. No other unit in our book takes any of its options from C:SM. We take the rules for the options we receive in C:SW from there.... not the list of options itself. Otherwise your just playing C:SM eh? Ill admit that this is somewhat academic, however its also infinitely practicle, as god only knows when our book comes out.

 

Damn'd funny way of showing it... You approach to this suggestion was very antagonistic and smacked of your typical rules lawyer trying to handicap their opponent...

Your not my opponent. Your another guy on a forum who I feel is screwing up on his rules. This is a discussion, not a pissing match tell some judges show up.

[DV8]

@ImRuined:

 

The Space Wolf codex is the "current" LEGAL book for playing Space Wolves, and as it is still a valid codex, all the rules included within MUST be obeyed, regardless of how out-of-date or archaic they may be in comparison to newer books that may be out (i.e. Codex: Space Marines). True, the Space Wolf codex does refer you to Codex: Space Marines in some instances with regards to units, but you'll notice that they are all vehicles (with the exception of scouts, I'll touch on that in a second). Any and every infantry unit available in Codex: Space Wolves must be selected from and use the rules in said codex. The only infantry unit that might refer you to Codex: Space Marines are Wolf Scouts, where only 1 unit of scouts may select equipment as per Scouts in Codex: Space Marines.

 

So far, we can establish (and hopefully agree) that Space Wolf infantry, and in this particular instance, Wolf Guard, use the options/rules as stated in Codex: Space Wolves, and ONLY Codex: Space Wolves (again, 1 singular unit of Scouts is the exception and can be disregarded in this little debate).

 

Secondly, the Armoury in Codex: Space Wolves is standalone. It never refers to Codex: Space Marines. All Characters/Wolf Guard Bodyguard/Pack Leaders refer only to the Space Wolves Armoury for their weapon options.

 

So my second point, Wolf Guard may only select equipment from their unit entry in Codex: Space Wolves, and from the Space Wolves Armoury (which conveniently enough is contained within Codex: Space Wolves.

 

Now's the part where I think you're confusing RAW (Rules as Written) with common sense. Yes, Codex: Space Marines does allow Terminators to essentially take Cyclone Missile Launchers without it counting towards their weapon allowance (insofar as they can take Storm Shields/Thunderhammer, Twin Lightning Claws, etc.) since the hand-held targeter no longer exists. And yes, since TDA should be the same, so should the weapon/equipment options across the board. However, and I put this sentence in bold for emphasis, Codex: Space Wolves DOES NOT. Period. I mean, by your logic I could argue that since Wolf Guard Terminators have access to the armoury, so too should Terminators in Codex: Space Marines, but they don't. They are two separate units in two separate books.

 

End of story, your argument ends there. The RAW in Codex: Space Wolves specifically list the Cyclone Missile Launchers as a two-handed weapon, and as per the weapons selection restrictions (two one-handed weapon, one two-handed weapon, or one one-handed weapon and one two-handed weapon for TDA), you are allowed 1 other weapon, so long as it is a one-handed weapon. You can argue all you want that your friends/local GW staff allow you to use the more updated Codex: Space Marine weapon options for TDA, however, Codex: Space Wolves does not. Another bold sentence for emphasis. It is against the rules, thus cheating. (Again keep in mind that both Grey Mage and I are arguing this purely from a RAW standpoint. Disregard RAI (rules as interpreted) and do not consider common sense).

 

Bottom line is this, if you want to use Codex: Space Marine options, use that codex until the next Codex: Space Wolves. If you WANT to use Codex: Space Wolves, then do so, and abide by ALL the rules included therein. Just because we choose to argue against you does not mean we couldn't possibly play Space Wolves (you scoffing at Grey Mage possibly playing Space Wolves considering his stance was, to be frank, absurd and rediculous). Just because we play the same army doesn't mean we can't also play by the rules.

 

And for the record, I too place Space Wolves, and I am using Codex: Space Marines simply because I find Codex: Space Wolves too archaic for my taste (plus Sternguard are just too irresistable).

 

 

*EDIT* It just occurred to me several things of note:

 

1. The Space Wolf Armoury refers you to Codex: Space Marines and/or the Rulebook for the stats/rules for wargear/weapons/items. HOWEVER, as the Cyclone Missile Launcher is not in the Armoury, and character wargear/weapon/item selection has not changed, that little bit of information changes nothing. Just thought I'd mention it.

 

2. This distinction between Codex: Space Wolves and Codex: Space Marines applies to things like the Rhino and Razorback as well. Their points decreased in Codex: Space Marines, but did not in Codex: Space Wolves. The same argument stands, if you use Codex: Space Wolves, you pay the points as listed in Codex: Space Wolves, not the reduced cost from the new Space Marine book (another reason I'm using the new codex). I know this isn't what we're debating here, but it's just to reinforce my point.

 

 

DV8