Is there any reason to NOT take a Daemon Prince?

[Moress]

Okay, It's been weighing heavily on me these past couple days.

 

I try to run a fluffy Iron Warriors list, but one that's also competative. Normally I use to run 140pt Warsmith model with DW and Combi Melta. I stuck by him for the longest time since he's my coolest looking model and it adds flavor to the army. Also it seems no one elses uses lords any more with the current codex.

 

After playing countless games of having him die to powerfist and his own DW, and taking up that 10th man slot in transports (so you cna't have the second special weapon), I started getting frustrated. Seldom does he ever make it to the end of the game.

 

Now, for 15points more, I can have a winged Daemon Smith with warp Time. He is not only marginally better vs. MEQs, but has almost no chance of hurting himself (except perils of the warp), he's unstopable against all vehciles (except the mono), and get's +1W, +1T, +1WS, and best of all he's immune to instant death, so you don't fear ordance/powerfist. FOR ONLY 15-25 POINTS MORE!!!

 

Now, compare the DP to the other armies HQ's, he's still better point for point. SM HQ with relic blade and bikes/jump pack/orbital Bombardment run about the same if not more. The only thing that seems to come close is the Hive Tyrant.

 

So I ask you guy, is there any reason to NOT take a Daemon Prince? He just seems too damn good not too, and for some reason it really irks me having a DP lead most of my armies since I don't really see DP's doing that.

 

On an off topic, could anyone give me a fluffy reason a Iron Warriors DP would still want to lead his Grand Company?

[Cale]

The only significant downside to the Daemon Prince is the fact that it is a Monstrous Creature--not an independant character--and thus cannot join a squad. This means he either has to hide behind terrain (which is difficult because of his size) or be exposed to fire. A lord or sorcerer can join a squad and thus avoid taking hits from shooting attacks.

 

Even give that, though, I completely agree that the Daemon Prince is the stronger choice by far. Force Weapons and Daemon Weapons (the other notable improvements that lords and sorcerers have over Daemon Princes) simply fail to make up for the DP's significantly superior stats--and, of course, his immunity to Instant Death.

 

Daemon Princes all the way.

 

As for why a Daemon Prince would lead an army, well, why not? Presumably the Daemon Prince was the leader of an army while he was a regular old lord or sorcerer, working to curry favour with the Dark Gods. So, finally he reaches that critical mass and poof! he's a Daemon Prince. What now? Is he suddenly uninterested in power and control? Does he just forget about the awesome army he's built up around him over the previous millenia?

 

No. Becoming a Daemon Prince is just a reward. It doesn't necessarily involve any major shifts in attitude or outlook, and it certainly doesn't dictate that the new Daemon Prince abandon his followers. If anything, he's likely to draw more, now that he is so much more powerful.

[Iron_Chaos_Brute]

I can not think of any reason to take a Lord or Sorc over a DP in any competetive environment.

 

My IW DP is the black reach dread with wings and defiler claws (and other minor conversions).

Nothing says awesome like "Winged Dread"

[Zhukov]

out of fluff reasons not really a reason I guess.

But 1 deamon prince in 1500 dies pretty quick, so maybe if you dont want to run 2 taking a sorcerer or lord isnt much worse cause they survive longer in a squad.

[minigun762]

I struggle with the same issue Moress, but I finally went with the Daemon Prince myself.

The thing that sold me was being unique to Chaos.

Loyalist Marines can field a variety of Power Armor and Terminator HQ units, but they can't field a MC. Hell nobody but Tyranids/Eldar has an MC unit available as a HQ choice so I went with the Daemon Prince to embrace the uniqueness of the codex.

 

As for fluffy reasons, Cale makes perfect sense. Its the goal of damn near every Traitor Marine out there to become a Daemon Prince, it even says so in the codex. That means that it wouldn't be surprising for someone to reach that level and it would be even less surprising for warriors not to rally around someone who successfully did what they want to do. Your Warsmith is simply leading by example.

 

As for using the Daemon Prince on the tabletop, I find that target saturation works well, put a pair of Vindicators down with some Rhinos and suddenly the Daemon Prince isn't the only target that needs LasCannon attention.

[Magnus Thane]

I don't and i doubt i ever will. I find it more fluff and cool for my force.

Perhaps one day i'll use one if an even cooler DP pops up.

[Redbaron997]

Well as far as a Warptime Prince goes, Warptime only works in your turn, so in your opponents CC phase you dont get its re-rolls (correct me if I am wrong)

 

For this I prefer my Chaos Lord's Daemon Weapon works every CC phase.

 

Pretty much its up to the player, I choose the Chaos Lord cause of the Terminator model. ITs just frikken awesome!

[JamesI]

Well as far as a Warptime Prince goes, Warptime only works in your turn, so in your opponents CC phase you dont get its re-rolls (correct me if I am wrong)

 

For this I prefer my Chaos Lord's Daemon Weapon works every CC phase.

 

Pretty much its up to the player, I choose the Chaos Lord cause of the Terminator model. ITs just frikken awesome!

You can cast Warptime in each players turn.

[Zhukov]

Thats makes no sense due to 2 reasons:

1. you can use warptime in the other players turn

2. a deamon weapon doesnt work every turn

 

arrgh hate it when I am a minute too late ;)

[Dràyhèn]

Its a fact, thousand times and over proven that princes never make it in the end. Mine hasn't never, not including a couple of exceptions. He just dies in every game, its the perils, or a mass of inv saves coming when you get exposed after cc. Either you make it's points cost back early by recklessly attacking, or just hide him long enough to get an opportunity. And that lash really is your friend, when everyone can measure that 18" threat range from dp. Anyway, I say it's the best choice we got, it usually pays it's points back afterall, despite of those facts. :)

[Ace of Gods]

Thats makes no sense due to 2 reasons:

1. you can use warptime in the other players turn

2. a deamon weapon doesnt work every turn

 

arrgh hate it when I am a minute too late ;)

 

Your Warptime can be used at the beginning of ANY turn, so yes. you can use it in their turn. And the demon weapon works at the beginning of an CC , so that even works in the other players turns also. Check the rules. Chaos DP's and Champs are Bad @$$.(its even printed on their wallets)

[Zhukov]

I hate it even more if people do not understand what I'm trying to say:

A deamon weapon doesnt work every turn, cause if you roll a 1 you cannot attack at all.

So no need to check rules for me

[Uprising]

On an off topic, could anyone give me a fluffy reason a Iron Warriors DP would still want to lead his Grand Company?

 

It really is fluffy because your primarch of the IW is a prince now.

[Magnus Thane]

And DP's can lead IW compagnies.

And there are possessed amonst the IW's.

They even have Sorcerors.

Just because the focus of a Legion lies on a specific element, it doesn't meant some others are never around.

[Zeller]

I can attach my Termy lord to a 10-man retinue and deep strike?

 

I can attach my Sorceror to a 20-man squad and hassle the foe?

 

The cliche move isn't always the best move.

 

My DP doesn't have a gun.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Just to add to the original question: Is there any reason to not take TWO daemon princes? They are more likely to survive if there are two, and i don't think we have anything else in our codex with that sort of power vs points ratio.

[MuGGzy]

I don't use a DP because all the models BLOW IMHO and if I did I would have to model a big wooden spoon in his hand since this uper powerful blessed warrior of the chaos gods that has been lifted above al others to be an example of their vast might... STILL carries around a sharp stick to poke people with. Not a DEMON WEAPON, NO, those go to the squishy little humans.

 

And TWO DPS in one force is like the absolute largest example of retarded anti-fluff ever. If I sat across from someone that played 2 I would make snarky comments all game. ;)

[minigun762]

I don't use a DP because all the models BLOW IMHO and if I did I would have to model a big wooden spoon in his hand since this uper powerful blessed warrior of the chaos gods that has been lifted above al others to be an example of their vast might... STILL carries around a sharp stick to poke people with. Not a DEMON WEAPON, NO, those go to the squishy little humans.

 

And TWO DPS in one force is like the absolute largest example of retarded anti-fluff ever. If I sat across from someone that played 2 I would make snarky comments all game. ;)

 

This is the reason I'd wouldn't use 2 Princes. I like my armies to feel more "realistic" and having 2 ancient and powerful demi-gods working hand in hand doesn't give me that feel. ;)

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I don't use a DP because all the models BLOW IMHO and if I did I would have to model a big wooden spoon in his hand since this uper powerful blessed warrior of the chaos gods that has been lifted above al others to be an example of their vast might... STILL carries around a sharp stick to poke people with. Not a DEMON WEAPON, NO, those go to the squishy little humans. :D

 

And TWO DPS in one force is like the absolute largest example of retarded anti-fluff ever. If I sat across from someone that played 2 I would make snarky comments all game. ;)

 

This is the reason I'd wouldn't use 2 Princes. I like my armies to feel more "realistic" and having 2 ancient and powerful demi-gods working hand in hand doesn't give me that feel. ^_^

 

Yeah, its a fluff reason.

[Redbaron997]

Agreed, I made up some fluff for some Khorne DP Brothers, but even with good justification I dnot like 2 DPs.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I run 2 DPs regularly but i don't like it either. I'm considering running 1 dp and an undivided terminator lord with a daemon weapon to go with my terms, or 1 dp and Khârn.

[minigun762]

I run 2 DPs regularly but i don't like it either. I'm considering running 1 dp and an undivided terminator lord with a daemon weapon to go with my terms, or 1 dp and Khârn.

 

Seems much more reasonable.

A leader and his lieutenant. There is plenty of background supporting this kind of arrangement, so it wouldn't be very hard at all. Hell I'd say that in many larger armies, you always see the main guy have some sort of captain of the guard/bodyguard/advisor figure.

[djkest]

I think not taking a Demon Prince is why I've been having troubles. I'm going to start taking one, soon.

[Rain]

You don't even really need warptime, DP's are WS7 so you will need 3+/2+ against practically all infantry, even most HQ's (including opposing Chaos Lords). And even if the prince dies, that means that your opponent wasted quite a few heavy weapon shots against him instead of firing at your transports and that's always good, not that he is even all that easy to kill.

[Cale]

Rain, you never hit on 2+ in combat, regardless of how high your weapon skill is. An Avatar (ws:10) attacking a Firewarrior (Ws:2) still hits on 3+.

 

Warp Time significantly increases the damage a Daemon Prince deals on average, taking him from an average of around three kills when charging to an average of almost five.