Skirnir Ragefang Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Hail and well-met, as a long time lurker and avid reader, this is my first post in the hallowed halls of the Fang. With the new edition of 40K most of my friends switched armies. While last edition i was facing CSM, Black Templars and SoBs, now its mostly IG and Orks. The Orks are not much of a Problem. But the IG is. Every damn game i face a horde of troopers with heavy weapons. Nearly every time my wolves take too much fire to be effective in CC. I tried to rush with two Land raiders, but both got blown up (curse you, dices!) Next game i'm going to field-test a Trio of Whirlwinds to blow up some of these pesky, flashlight wielding guy and a Flamer armed Wolfscoutpack including a Wolfguard with Combiflamer to take out annoying mortars. Some other thoughts include two Ironclads with flamers droppoding, bringing Deathwind launchers and possible cover through their pods. If anyone has other ideas how to deal with the guard, i'm happy for every input. I can field nearly anything, as i own about a greatcompany worth of Wolves. Additionally, i can requisition 1000p worth of Battle Sisters. For Russ and the Allfather! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160034-how-to-kill-an-ig-mass-gunline/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 how about using 13th company;) otherwise, droppodding and scouts=) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160034-how-to-kill-an-ig-mass-gunline/#findComment-1877264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPetersson Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Personally I love Whirlwinds against low toughness targets like Eldar... I have never played against IG though, but I'm under the impression that they have mostly the same sucky toughness and saves. Flamers are wondrous against Eldar, so I assume they are against IG as well. Give your IG friend a nasty shock, and drop pod 1 VenDread and as many IronClads as you can, all with flamers... Bikers are expensive but effective shock troops with a WGBL and a WGPL to really kick some booty... They'll be hard to hit and harder to wound (T5 is glorious)... Just some thoughts. Do you remember to pop your smoke launchers on your LR? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160034-how-to-kill-an-ig-mass-gunline/#findComment-1877307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I wouldnt say a trio of whirlwinds... for several reasons. Including that that leaves you a little low on anti-tank. What I would say is that you need a large scale drop pod force. And the knowledge of how to run one against a horde. Chop off parts of his army from the others with several pods, intermix dreadnaughts and squads, and take out anything with a template first. To this end Id say you want a 2:1 ration of squads to dreadnaughts, and a couple of multimelta armed landspeeders to take out his ordnance based tanks. Demolisher cannons are bad, demolisher cannons when your huddled behind your drop pods to avoid enemy fire is really bad. Between dreadnaughts with meltas and heavy flamers and squads with meltas and bolters you should be able to tackle what you land on. Then from the back yeah, a pair of whirlwinds to make more of his troops take cover. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160034-how-to-kill-an-ig-mass-gunline/#findComment-1877366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellblades Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I play against an IG gunline all the time, and i find its not too hard to defeat if you keep a few things in mind. 1) use terrain to your advantage. With the 5th ed LOS rules, and the rather small models of the IG, keep as many obstacles as you can between you and the IG. Urban setups are particulary good with this 2) scouts are your friend. I use a scout squad to OBEL and then take out the command squad by both shooting (flamer and plas pistols) and CC (power weapons) and that takes away the Ld benefits of that pesky Vox charecter. Ordanance such as whirlwinds will then be much more effective at pinning his key shooting squads. 3) Dreads, especially ironclads in pods, will make his life hell. You can pod right in front of the gunline, so the pod blocks LOS to your advancing troops, and then have the dread go like a bowling ball right into his lines PS. if none of the above seem to work, use 13th Company. With the entire army outflanking, you can get in CC usually within 1 or 2 turns of coming on the board, then you just move from combat to combat Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160034-how-to-kill-an-ig-mass-gunline/#findComment-1877398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Lord Jukes Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 The infamous Imperial Guard Mass Gunline has demolished more than a few of my space wolf armies, but these things almost always work (mix and match to fit your taste) 1 - Blood Claw Spam (more bodies than they have bullets lol) 2 - Blood Claw Bikers + Jump Pack Troops (the more the better... and keep out of 12" until your own movement phase to avoid the rapid fire zone of death) 3 - As many heavy bolters as you can muster (the old Leman Russ Exterminator has done the trick, or the 85 point heavy bolter-autocannon Predator) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160034-how-to-kill-an-ig-mass-gunline/#findComment-1877460 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeti Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Whirlwinds are nice against IG, but I wouldn't go for three ... too many other nice options. Elites : OBEL Scouts. If he has tanks, get a melta, otherwise, flamer. Power weapons and a wolf guard will add wonders. Troops : Both are good, you just have to get them close. GHs will deal out bolter death and no real need for adding a special weapon. BCs with power weapons will absolutely rip him apart. Fast Attack : Land Speeder Tornadoes with double heavy bolters. Six S5 Ap4 shots ... for 60 pts ... with incredible maneuverability ... WOW! Keep them at a distance and use cover to limit return fire and you're golden. Heavy : Whirlwinds are nice, but you'll need AT too. A Land Raider will double as a troop transport and provide AT, just be careful not to expose it too much. Preds with bolters are dirt cheap. Whirlwinds with pie plates of doom round out the trio. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160034-how-to-kill-an-ig-mass-gunline/#findComment-1877503 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Personally I love infantry swarms. Even a gunline IG army has trouble killing tons of power armor quickly and once you get into close combat. Last time I fought IG I tabled the guy on turn 3 with just a horde of Power Armor, especially if you use cover OBEL scouts to take out any armor and artillery, bikes, jump packs and land speeders to add some speed and the Space Wolves power armor horde makes for quite a nasty force. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160034-how-to-kill-an-ig-mass-gunline/#findComment-1877589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bran Scalphunter Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 IG infantry Gunlines? Oooh *does a very Slaaneshy laugh* I loves me some Gunline Armies! Soo much fun to... kill. ;) Let me count the ways I kill the Guardsman... 1. Vindicators, if you go before him, and you position well, you'll hit with the Demolisher no matter how far you scatter. Annihilate as you see fit. 2. Drop Pods carrying any Space Wolf unit. Drop Pod in, haul out, blast and burn to bits! 3. Variant of #2, aka Lar's List. 4 Wolf Guard in TDA, two with AC, WGBL in TDA and with AC. Drop and blast. 4. Crusader carrying Blood Claw pack with Wolf Guard. Linebreak with the Crusader, massacre the survivors with the Claws next turn. 5. Couple of Drop Podding Dreadnoughts works well. Strike Force "Thor"- Ven Dread in pod, with AC and heavy flamer, 2 Ironclads with dual flamers and assault launchers, and one normal Dreadnought with AC and heavy flamer. Toss in 3 more Drop Pod packs to land 1st turn so you can zero in and kaboom! Dead Guardsmen everywhere! I love the smell of BBQ Guardsmen in the morning ... smells like victory. 6. OBEL'ing Wolf Scouts to tear them a new one when they show up. Give em all power weapons, a flamer, and then the WGPL a combi flamer and lightning claw. Burny burny then choppy choppy. If you haven't noticed before, I have a sick fascination with doing terrible things to Guardsmen... must be the Slaanesh in me. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160034-how-to-kill-an-ig-mass-gunline/#findComment-1877603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Wolf Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Ven Dread - Drop Pod - Heavy Flamer Ironclad - Drop Pod - Heavy Flamer Ironclad - Drop Pod - Heavy Flamer Wolf Guard - Termies - Drop Pod - 3x Heavy Flamers WGBL - Termie - Drop Pod - Heavy Flamer The IG make this noise, "AIEEEEEEEE" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160034-how-to-kill-an-ig-mass-gunline/#findComment-1877642 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 It might be funny to perform a multple assault with a Dread (if possible), try getting through that with Strength 3. Also Landspeeders with Heavy flamers seems a nice option, besides the big plates put down by Whirlwinds and or Vindicators. But i guess we have to wait for that new IG codex and see what happens to them than. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160034-how-to-kill-an-ig-mass-gunline/#findComment-1877771 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Wolf Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I found patience with Drop Pods is a good ally. Drop in. Put your dreads behind the pods. The pods will soak up a lot of fire and your dreads will get a cover save. Then come around, flame, melta, assault cannon, etc...with a nice assault to finish things up :) Yummy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160034-how-to-kill-an-ig-mass-gunline/#findComment-1877791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon950 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Take out the things that make big booms first, have some lascannons try to tear up his leman russes, or flank with wolf scouts and melt them. Having 1 whirlwind is good, I love my long fangs and have atleast 1 per game. Try to sneak a land raider up the side of the board and put some rihnos in the center. Most of the time people will shoot the stuff thats right in the middle and take out the stuff on the side later. Also drop pods come in handy if you have some dreadnoughts or greyhunters in them. Out of 3 games with the wolves I beat the guard once and the other game both armies were wiped out. I've fared better with my other army the tau. Except in 1 apoc game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160034-how-to-kill-an-ig-mass-gunline/#findComment-1878232 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildeyedjester Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Deep striking dreds usually do very little against IG. They land, they maybe kill a tank or etc on the turn they can't assault, and then the dred and the drop pod they came in on get popped the next IG turn. If you were in a Kill Points scenario, you just lost 2 vp to their zero or one. If you could get the dred in hth, yes it would be bad for the guard player. But any guard player worth their weight in salt knows that a dred waiting to assault is target priority #1. The key to beating guard is too give them too many assault or mechanized targets to deal with. If you dropped a dred, and 2 squads of troops behind their lines, it becomes more of a problem than just a lone dred. Rhinos further compound their problems, b/c if your troops are in tanks, IG ordnance looses much of its threat value. Against guard, resist all urges to rapid fire them. Move everything toward them, then run, using as much cover as possible. If you get into hth with them, they loose. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160034-how-to-kill-an-ig-mass-gunline/#findComment-1880377 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Wolf Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Deep striking dreds usually do very little against IG. They land, they maybe kill a tank or etc on the turn they can't assault, and then the dred and the drop pod they came in on get popped the next IG turn. If you were in a Kill Points scenario, you just lost 2 vp to their zero or one. If you could get the dred in hth, yes it would be bad for the guard player. But any guard player worth their weight in salt knows that a dred waiting to assault is target priority #1. Again, Patience...hang out behind the drop pod during his first turn...let it soak up fire. Unless it's blown up, the dread gets a cover save... Turn two: your GH come in and have a field day shooting at everything, then your dreads come and flame everything while your GH hang out for turn 3. Works for me anyway :devil: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160034-how-to-kill-an-ig-mass-gunline/#findComment-1880413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madsakre Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Use your boot of D00m :P Always works for me ^^ No. NO1!!! Use terrain wisely. If you use rhinos. Use them to be in the way of his LOS. flamers. whirlwinds vindicators Drop Dread Crusaders/Redeemers with BC's Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160034-how-to-kill-an-ig-mass-gunline/#findComment-1881378 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunchb0x Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 My answer to fighting gunline-hordes....Heavybolters. If you can take maxed out long fangs with heavybolters, and a bodyguard with mastercrafted heavybolters. Its meaner then guard heavy weapons. BS - 4 vs. BS 3 You have a higher chance of hitting, and with long fangs you can hit multiple targets. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160034-how-to-kill-an-ig-mass-gunline/#findComment-1881679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Lucas Raziel Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Bikes with Flamers and Multi-Melta, charge them toward gunline, next turn deep strike Termies next to bikes, assault, gunline goes bye-bye. or you could just order the Chapter Master to call an orbital bombarment ;) (not sure if the wolves can use it) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160034-how-to-kill-an-ig-mass-gunline/#findComment-1881683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valhalla Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 The problem for me is that 95% of the advice here consists of tailoring your list to beat one particular army rather then building an all comers list and using the pieces he already has more efficiently to beat the IG gun line. Now I don't know anything behind these games such as set up and point level but there a few suggestions I can offer. #1: If your enemy is spreading out his gun line across the board use a refused flank set up and hit that flank with everything you have. This will take about half his army out of shooting range and make them nothing but spectators unless he wants to redeploy his heavy weapons teams mid battle. #2: Use Cover. This is key when playing against Guard or Tau and using it to cover your advance is usually the difference between winning and losing. #3: If you're playing wolf scouts (and who doesn't) using them to cover your advance is a very helpful tactic. I played an IG army last week and my scouts tied up a heavy weapons team (lascannon) and still had one scout assault a LRBT with a melta bomb. The end result of the first round of combat was a stunned LRBT and 2 lascannons that couldn't shoot due to being entangled giving my army less weapons to worry about as they advanced on the flank. I really can't give any more advice without know your army composition and playing style whether you favor drop pods or the rhino rush mechanized force. For the Wolf Time! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160034-how-to-kill-an-ig-mass-gunline/#findComment-1881691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunchb0x Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Multi-Melta, charge them toward gunline, next turn deep strike Termies gunline These are the bits that don't make sense to me.... Multi-melta is not a template weapon...why use that against a horde line? Deep strike termies next to a gunline?...have you ever actually done this? The deadliest thing for a Terminator is a las-gun!! You do understand what rapid fire is correct? and if your within 12" and do a good amount of damage...a smart opponent will remove the closest models to you so you wont be able to charge! The following turn you have to deal with double tapping IG all over again. <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160034-how-to-kill-an-ig-mass-gunline/#findComment-1881820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunchb0x Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 The problem for me is that 95% of the advice here consists of tailoring your list to beat one particular army rather then building an all comers list and using the pieces he already has more efficiently to beat the IG gun line. Wait...the rest of you don't take 100 heavy bolters per list? :huh: :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160034-how-to-kill-an-ig-mass-gunline/#findComment-1881823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Lucas Raziel Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 . These are the bits that don't make sense to me.... Multi-melta is not a template weapon...why use that against a horde line? Deep strike termies next to a gunline?...have you ever actually done this? The deadliest thing for a Terminator is a las-gun!! You do understand what rapid fire is correct? and if your within 12" and do a good amount of damage...a smart opponent will remove the closest models to you so you wont be able to charge! The following turn you have to deal with double tapping IG all over again yes i have done this, and yes this works, although it is difficult to work. the multi melta is for killing possible sentinals/tanks, while the flamers burn through the gunline, creating a hole. the termies deepstrike into that, then fan out, spreading through the gunline. the termies get shot at by most the line, thus relieving fire on the rest of your army. by the time the termies are dealt with, the rest of your army has reached the gunline. let the slaughter begin! Edit: spelling Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160034-how-to-kill-an-ig-mass-gunline/#findComment-1881903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Wow what ponit value do you use? Im usually playing at about 1500.... and so termies are a third of my army at that point. I cant afford to use them as bait unless its the only way. *shrugs* alot of the battle is in the terrain. IG arent as scary when theres a good deal of cover on the field. Lascannons are scary.... but 4+/3+ cover is brilliant. The pinpricks become about as effective at that point. But usually I go in with Long range or speeders, take out ordnance tanks and expect to lose any speeder I have to platoon based Heavys. The footslogging portion of my force hits a flank hard, turns it, and then walks from one side to the other. An assault unit in the middle, Support squads to the outside chewing on the numbers further down. By the time your there you should outnumber them in points still on the board. After that its armor saves and target priority. The main whos toting plasma is always the priority. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160034-how-to-kill-an-ig-mass-gunline/#findComment-1881943 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Wolf Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 ooohhh...forgot to mention Death Wind Missile launchers are fun too :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160034-how-to-kill-an-ig-mass-gunline/#findComment-1882162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunchb0x Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 .These are the bits that don't make sense to me.... Multi-melta is not a template weapon...why use that against a horde line? Deep strike termies next to a gunline?...have you ever actually done this? The deadliest thing for a Terminator is a las-gun!! You do understand what rapid fire is correct? and if your within 12" and do a good amount of damage...a smart opponent will remove the closest models to you so you wont be able to charge! The following turn you have to deal with double tapping IG all over again yes i have done this, and yes this works, although it is difficult to work. the multi melta is for killing possible sentinals/tanks, while the flamers burn through the gunline, creating a hole. the termies deepstrike into that, then fan out, spreading through the gunline. the termies get shot at by most the line, thus relieving fire on the rest of your army. by the time the termies are dealt with, the rest of your army has reached the gunline. let the slaughter begin! Edit: spelling I dont see the logic in sacrificing a squad of termies to lighten the loud of las-gun shots.... I still stand by my Heavy Bolter ideals when it comes to hordes. or if you must, jump troops with flamers!! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160034-how-to-kill-an-ig-mass-gunline/#findComment-1882165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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