Blackironindustries Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I have been wondering what other peoples views of the Land raider are, so I thought I would ask. I am thinking of using 1 in a 1500pt army list, hiding 8-10 zerkers in. I have read on here that people prefer to use 2 in 1500 pts so that they hopefully wont both get popped before reaching the enemy and others prefer to use none as they cost too much etc. So what are peoples feeling on them and why? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160162-to-land-raider-or-not-to-land-raider/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertsjf Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 people prefer 2 because of redundancy. One land raider is a target, 2 is an unstoppable force! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160162-to-land-raider-or-not-to-land-raider/#findComment-1879316 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I'm going to experiment with one in my list today (with zerks in it). I'll let you know how it goes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160162-to-land-raider-or-not-to-land-raider/#findComment-1879335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Gothard Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I normally agree, but just last week I traded my land raiders for Rhinos. Normally, I play 40 marines, 2 rhinos, 2 land raiders in 1500 points. However, recently my opponents have been stacking their lists against me. Even a land raider with a 4+ cover save cant outlast 9 lascannons per turn (2 twin-linked). The last game I played I lost one raider on turn 1 (although he hit it with everything and rolled almost all 6s to damage), and the other raider on turn 2. I was not pleased. So I decided, NOPE, too many points to potentially lose turn 1 (especially because then their transported unit is walking into the fire that took the raider down!). But I will say this: if you`re using Land Raiders, do take more than one. Take 2. Once you include A land raider in your list, you are dictating, somewhat, the way the list will play. So including 2 raiders specializes and enhances that playstyle. But I will no longer advocate taking land raiders at all (especially now that Loyalist land raiders are so much better than ours). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160162-to-land-raider-or-not-to-land-raider/#findComment-1879437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 However, recently my opponents have been stacking their lists against me. Well that could be said of anything really. I'd argue that Rhinos are underpowered and crappy when all I face is 30 Ork Lootas. :o As for Land Raiders, I think 2 is the magic number. Less than that only works if you have a crapton of armor on the table (Vindicators, Defilers, Rhinos etc) so that it forces them to spread out their anti-tank weapons simply to combat everything you have on the board. 3+ Land Raiders can work, but it really requires a kind of min-max approach and some careful playing. Not saying it can't be done, hell you could even be successful with it, but with that much AV14, it forces the player to gear up for you, so the next time you play, you'll see alot more Meltas and LasCannons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160162-to-land-raider-or-not-to-land-raider/#findComment-1879481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epic Thoughts Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I'd rather have a Redeemer, but, that's not going to happen. They're a solid tank with 5th edition's new damage table. Two of them isn't simple addition, it's an exponent. More is indeed better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160162-to-land-raider-or-not-to-land-raider/#findComment-1879522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Gothard Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 That's true Mini, but its very easy to dismiss the "that's too many points for one basket" phrase until it happens to you on turns 1, 2, and for 2 games in a row. But, those were on 4x4 tables (too friggin small for land raiders). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160162-to-land-raider-or-not-to-land-raider/#findComment-1879573 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flameseeker574 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Two or three is the way to go, throw some 'zerkers in there and you have a very nice assualt/anti tank platform. Personally I would stay away from termies in them, just too deathstar/uber/pointsink for my liking. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160162-to-land-raider-or-not-to-land-raider/#findComment-1879669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 well it depends on the build , not on the like or dont like thing. either its a rush build and you take 2 or you dont play rush and dont use them . simple as that . now 4pms or 2 pms/2 zerkers can be a like/dislike thing , because both builds play more or less the same way . Generally I dislike LR rush builds because they are [wrote something bad self edit. am geting soft] attractive for new players and on the other hand a lot of people play meta against them [if your list cant deal with LR , then its a bad one] , so playing it and hoping to win is asking for weak opponents . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160162-to-land-raider-or-not-to-land-raider/#findComment-1879814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbaron997 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I use a Land Raider in most of my lists, sometimes I use two if I have a definitive plan for them, but thats alot of points to throw down. I like them myself, It gives me a nice central figurepiece for my army, and any lord worth his salt would have a nice big Land Raider to cart him around. I get away with just one due to the number of Vehicles in my army. With 2 Defiliers, and a Vindi (and 4 Rhinos) its easy for my opponent to pass up shooting at the LR for more tempting targets, a decision he often later regrets. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160162-to-land-raider-or-not-to-land-raider/#findComment-1879998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I like myself, It gives me a nice central figurepiece for my army, and any lord worth his salt would have a nice big Land Raider to cart him around. Thats good Redbaron, you have to love yourself before anyone else will. :D On topic though, you can get away with having one if you do like Redbaron is doing and overload the board with other tanks. However the question you have to ask yourself is "what do I hope to accomplish with my Land Raider(s)?" More than many models, you have to have a game plan with them, otherwise their mixed assault/shooting nature will throw you off. Now if we had LRCs life would be different. There the plan is easy, Advance! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160162-to-land-raider-or-not-to-land-raider/#findComment-1880065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daemon*hunter Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I saw a guy runnin a trio of LR's crammed with termies, all exploded on turn 1, made me laugh! :o Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160162-to-land-raider-or-not-to-land-raider/#findComment-1880157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbaron997 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I like myself, It gives me a nice central figurepiece for my army, and any lord worth his salt would have a nice big Land Raider to cart him around. Thats good Redbaron, you have to love yourself before anyone else will. :o On topic though, you can get away with having one if you do like Redbaron is doing and overload the board with other tanks. However the question you have to ask yourself is "what do I hope to accomplish with my Land Raider(s)?" More than many models, you have to have a game plan with them, otherwise their mixed assault/shooting nature will throw you off. Advance! Didnt you know? I AM a Land Raider. Only the power of a machine spirit could emcompass the awesome might I possess. Actually its kinda funny I have been taking mine for the express purpose of having no pre-set purpose. Everything in my army has a certain thing they are supposed to be doing, except my Land raider with Termies and Lord. That way when something goes south (No battle plan stays intact after the first turn) My Land Raider can do damage control. Big scary CC unit or MC coming at me, send in the LR. Enemy artillary piece lobbing shells at me, shoot off the Land Raiders cannons. Etc.. By giving it nothing to do it can do anything without worrying about filling some other purpose. I think this of course changes when you start to operate them in different ways, In 2+ LR lists you need to have a difinite purpose for your LR and unit, as they are to much of a point investment to scwander. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160162-to-land-raider-or-not-to-land-raider/#findComment-1880168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daemon*hunter Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 good tactic - having no tactics! why didn't i think of that B) lol i rarely bother with tactics pre-game as my opponents never do wt i expect them to :S Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160162-to-land-raider-or-not-to-land-raider/#findComment-1880178 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackironindustries Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 Cheers for the replys guys! B) So I am getting the impression that 1 Land Raider in a 1500pt army is really just a way of saying to the enemy look easy victory points! I am planning on making this amry list a competative list but not Grand Tournament material so I think 2 Land Raiders is a little too much. Rhinos all the way then? Assaulting out of them seems a little bit of a pain in the current rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160162-to-land-raider-or-not-to-land-raider/#findComment-1880214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dràyhèn Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 So, one won't definitely work at all, as an escort to sorcer and his termie buddies? What if I've a vindicator/defiler, two rhinos and dp already rushing headlong? It would still be considered as a primary target? Just thinking, because I thought that I really need one raider as a centrepiece, and as an escort for my termie lord/sorcerer. Every lord needs one, don't you think? But two cost way too much for me. Opinions? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160162-to-land-raider-or-not-to-land-raider/#findComment-1880217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
soshuro_tenchi Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 At 1500 points I don't use a LR myself. But at higher points games (1850+) I sometimes use one, but like Redbaron ennemy anti-tank must make choices (3-4 rhinos, 2 vindis and the land raider). I wonder if daemonic possession worth it tho. If you think all the weapon are twin-linked anyway, maybe the BS3 wouldn't hurt that much, and it help guarantee your LR will fire every turn if you don,t move 12" and once its cargo is delivered. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160162-to-land-raider-or-not-to-land-raider/#findComment-1880237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Actually its kinda funny I have been taking mine for the express purpose of having no pre-set purpose. Everything in my army has a certain thing they are supposed to be doing, except my Land raider with Termies and Lord. That way when something goes south (No battle plan stays intact after the first turn) My Land Raider can do damage control. See I'd say that your Land Raider does have a plan, to play damage control and act as a mobile support bunker. Go where the backup is needed, but we're really splitting hairs. Drayhen: You can probably get by with just 1 Land Raider since you have so much other armor. The real key here is target saturation. Its just easier to do it with multiple Land Raiders as AV14 is a pain to deal with multiple times. Soshuro-Tenchi: I'd say Daemonic Possession is worth it if you rely on your Land Raider(s). If you just HAVE to have them reach assault ranges, then its worthwhile. If on the other hand, you're using multiple Land Raiders so you have redundancy or the Land Raider isn't key to your whole army, you can get by without. I'd say its hard to use Daemonic Possession on 3+ Land Raiders simply because the points start adding up fairly quickly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160162-to-land-raider-or-not-to-land-raider/#findComment-1880389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roultox Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 You can fit 6 land raiders in 2000 points. I saw that force at work once, it was fun looking, but he barely made an objective with one model and had to wipe out the enemy and contest with 2 land raiders on the other objectives. Having 12 TLLC is a nasty force. For your meta... Ive ran 1 land raider, and the rest of the list were zerks, lord and prince all khornate. It seemed balanced throwing in the prince to take hits as well. If the raiders are the only big threat out there taking hits they will go down, having multiple targets for the job is a good balance. So never run 1 alone, have a defiler, or predator, or something else thats scary to take some heat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160162-to-land-raider-or-not-to-land-raider/#findComment-1880978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I tried a list with a prince, deepstriking termi squad, 2 rhino squads, land raider with zerks, and 2x oblits. Thats plenty of target priority and it worked out well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160162-to-land-raider-or-not-to-land-raider/#findComment-1881000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I own 2 myself, nvr really let me down. I dont agree with the thing Jeske said, you dont have to rush with landraiders. You can shoot 2 turns with them if there are alot of meltas for example. First remove meltas of the enemy, then you can always move up in the 3rd turn. But I might be wrong, maybe my opponents just suck (I dont think so, cause at least one of them ranks always pretty high in GT's) and dont bring enough meta with them, but I think they are great. Almost nvr get destroyed unless the enemy knows you are coming with them, what should not be the case on tourneys. If Land Raider should be rendered useless, all vehicles would be useless cause the Land Raider at least has got the best armour. 220 points is not that much if you ask me. Most of the time I use them as mobile bunkers, moving if neccesarry, standing still if neccesarry. If youve got zerkers in it for example the enemy cant really get in a circle around you land raider of about 18/19 inch, which is kinda nice. But ofcourse you have to assault if the enemy is shooty, or else your zerkers wont see action which isnt a good thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160162-to-land-raider-or-not-to-land-raider/#findComment-1881072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Personally, if it came down to two land raiders or 6 obliterators, I would usually choose the later. Versitile, and fairly hard to kill... they're much better for my play style But I do play thousand sons and 2 land raiders filled with 2 squads of 1k sons would be a death dealing machine but way too many points in two places for my taste Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160162-to-land-raider-or-not-to-land-raider/#findComment-1882150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corax_rg Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Im guilty of a squad of thousand sons in aland raider every now and then. Its brilliant! Until a power fist bashes through it.... :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160162-to-land-raider-or-not-to-land-raider/#findComment-1882213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelestialSon Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 In a tournament setting in which i don't know the missions ahead of time, i only field one. This is primarily to scoop up any damaged scoring units that move them around safely to objectives or save them from becoming easy kill points for an enemy. Having only one means that if i lose it, oh well, no lynchpin taken out of the army. The way i see it, if someone takes multiples of something, what they're saying is that they need at least 1 to live. Taking one means either they don't need it to live in order to win, or they could never win, no matter how many points, because they are thick Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160162-to-land-raider-or-not-to-land-raider/#findComment-1882659 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevianID Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Usually the land raider sees play in my circle for only one purpose--it is big enough to completely hide the 2 lash princes. We would buy it as a dedicated transport for some combi-melta/heavy flamer termies keeping the oblits and combi-preds for heavy support; the 5 termies add a nice assault element and even if the raider gets destroyed the lash princes can still hide behind it, safe from massed lootas and their ilk. Other than screening lash princes though oblits and rhinos provide all the transport and shooting needs we have. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160162-to-land-raider-or-not-to-land-raider/#findComment-1884141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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