Ordnance

[disnoxx]

Ok so firing ordnance directly from a Vindicator, do you use BS to see if it hits? Does it scatter if it does hit? I was kinda confused reading the rules.

[Cedric]

Vindicators has only the Direct fire option, no barrage.

It fires, hits and scatters as any blast weapon and is affected by its BS.

[Legatus]

Ordnance weapons are appearently fired like other blast weapons. Unfortunately the ordnance rules don't actually say that, which had confused me when I first tried to see how ordnance is used. I guess the intention is that any kind of "blast" weapon uses the "blast" rules, and ordnance is simply a particular kind of "blast" weapon.

Blast weapons are explained on page 30 in the BRB. You don't "roll to hit" on your BS. You roll 2D6 for scatter and substract the model's BS. If a hit is rolled on the scatter die, it does not scatter at all.

[yergerjo]

In the case of the Whirlwind which is Ordnance, Barrage:

 

When fired as Ordnance (Direct Fire=Line of Sight) you roll scatter, 2d6 and subtract the BS

 

When fired as Barrage (Indirect Fire=/= Line of Sight, Guess range) you roll scatter, 2d6 and DO NOT subtract the BS

 

IIRC Barrage also forces a pinning check at a -1 leadership as you do not know where the incoming fire comes from. Also Barrage counts cover only from the center hole, whereas normal Ordnance has cover apply as usual.

[Brother Nicolas]

My only issue with say like the WW no were in the rules does it say that you ether choose to fire indirect or direct... can you say choose to fire indirect even if you could draw straight light of sight?

[Isiah]

My only issue with say like the WW no were in the rules does it say that you ether choose to fire indirect or direct...

 

It doesn't have to. Ord Barrage weapons fired directly always follow the same general rules as for Blast weapons with regards range, scatter, marker placement, which models are hit etc. But in addition use the exceptions that must be followed as noted on p58 BRB under "Ord Barrage". In one of those rules you can fire at targets you can't see.

 

You don't need to declare which rule you are following as it's obvious once you name your target. <--- Talking rubbish. You do need to declare which option of fire you're using.

 

What you do need to declare though, is which type of missile you'll be using with your Whirly before you fire :) if you get the choice.

 

can you say choose to fire indirect even if you could draw straight light of sight?

 

If you can see the target you are obviously always better off using the straight Blast rules as you subtract your BS from scatter which makes it more accurate.

 

Cheers

I

[Legatus]

I think he wants to deny the target unit a cover save...

[Isiah]

It's a Barrage weapon so whether using indirect or line-of-sight, cover is always determined from the centre of the template's hole.

[Legatus]

Good point, I checked the rulebook, and that's indeed how it is for generic 'barrage' weapons. Vehicle mounted Ordnance Barrage weapons have different rules, though. The player can decide whether he wants to fire such a weapon directly or as a barrage, and if it is fired directly, it uses the same rules as regular ordnance, and if fired as a barrage it uses the rules for barrage weapons (with a few minor "ordnance" changes).

 

So a player can freely chose to fire at a visible target using the barrage rules, in which case cover will be determined from the centre of the blast template, or he can chose to fire directly using the ordnance rules, in which case the cover will be determined by the direction the shot is coming from.

[Isiah]

Yes well done Legatus my bad :down:, firing directly or indirectly does matter with regards cover & shot direction. You need to declare which option you use too...

[Legatus]

At least for vehicle mounted ordnance barrage weapons. Regular barrage weapons are allways fired as a barrage weapon, and the BS of the firing model is substracted when aiming at visible targets, but it is not when firing at targets out of LOS.

[Brother Nicolas]

Thats the thing Barrage does not mean its allways firing from indirrect.

 

If firing inderect you do not -BS and for direction of cover is from the center of the blast weres if firing LOS one is not barrage and there is no pinning check, direction is from the firere and there is the -BS bonus.

 

This is my question on firing with things now since the way true LOS works now and the way terain is, its hard to say you dont have LOS anymore so do you get to choose?

[Isiah]

Yes you get to choose. Ord Barrage gives you the option of which method you are using. Just declare which and fire away.

[Rosicrucian]

Reading this thread there seems to be some confusion, or at least some differences with my understanding of the rules for ordnance barrage weapons (so the confusion is all mine :lol: ):

 

Using the example of the WW, there are 3 ways in which it may fire (I think):

 

1. Fire directly at a target as per the ordnance weapon rules; this allows the vehicle to move and fire 1 ordnance weapon, with BS reducing the scatter and all cover saves are calculated from the direction of the firing vehicle.

 

2. Fire an ordnance barrage at a unit that is in LOS; so the vehicle may not move and fire, BS reduces the amount of scatter and all cover saves are calculated from the centre of the large blast marker.

 

3. Fire an ordnance barrage at a unit that is not in LOS; so the vehicle again may not move and fire, BS does not reduce the amount of scatter and all cover saves are calculated from the centre of the large blast marker.

 

Is this correct?

 

Option 1 might seem odd but I find it invaluable sometimes in Dawn of War scenarios.

 

A quick hello to you all as this is my first B&C post :D

[Legatus]

Yes, that is how ordnance barrage weapons can be used, which is pretty much what the last few posts in this thread have been agreeing on.