A question about faith

[ValourousHeart]

In a game against DE last night I was told by the DE player he had a unit that had power weapons that was in range to charge 2 units of seraphim.

He said that if I wanted to use SotM, I had to declare and test prior to him declaring his charge.

That way he could force me to use a faith point on both units and then he could charge the unit that failed.

 

Is he right?

 

It doesn't feel right, but I am also very newly returned to sisters and am unsure.

Also (from a models perspective) how would they know that this unit or that unit passed or failed their faith test?

 

It didn't come up with the passion during that game, but do I have to test for that before he charges or after he moves into base to base?

Again, how would they know that this unit is faster, and so choose to avoid them?

[Melissia]

Page 18, "Sisters of Battle Special Rules"; Section "Acts of Faith"

 

Rule "Hand of the Emperor"

--Paraphrase: Before the to-hit roll, after declaring your target.

 

Rule "Divine Guidance"

--Paraphrase: Before the to-wound roll, after the to-hit roll.

 

Rule "The Passion"

--Paraphrase: Beginning of the assault phase.

 

Rule "Light of the Emperor"

--Paraphrase: Beginning of any phase.

 

Rule "Spirit of the Martyr

--Paraphrase: Beginning of any phase.

 

 

 

 

So essentialy yes, he's right. You must declare you are using Spirit of the Martyr at the beginning of the phase you want it to effect. It'd not a powerful "oh:cuss" button, it's something you need to put thoughts into and plan out...

[Eltnot]

Melissia's right you do need to declare it before he charges. You should make an effort to learn when you can and can't use your acts of faith, otherwise you can get caught out.

 

At least your opponent was nice enough to point out that you needed to declare then instead of just proceeding on, and leaving you without the option.

[asianavatar]

The problem with that is since you are interrupting his phase almost a race to stop him before he charges. Technically, once he says I am charging this unit into that one. Its too late for you. So just remember to stop him once he does his last shooting so you can stop and decide which units you want to give invulnerable saves to. In most cases and in friendly games it doesn't make much of a difference as there is only one charge option and the person would be charging anyways, but still its good to do it the right way, especially if you play tournaments.

[Quasarcq]

Even in tournaments you should still have the option before the next phase begins to make acts of faith. Explain at the beginning of the game how faith works and that you ask that your opponent declare that he/she is about to go into the next phase. I've had opponents know damn well how faith works and will cheat you out of them by jumping right into the next phase without warning, "I'm assaulting your seraphim now, ha ha ha." In a tournament setting I would speak with a moderator with the opponent and discuss before the game that faith test must be allowed to be made. If your opponent declared charges with no warning, without letting you make acts of faith that's their bust for giving away their next move, not your mistake.

 

I discuss this with any person that I have never played against and I have not had a problem if they slip up and declare actions without declaring a charge in the phase. I can't help but get a little flustered about this issue because it is something, some shady players will actually try and cheat you out of, so watch out.

 

Luckily, ValouroursHeart, your opponent seemed friendly enough and knowledgeable about your armies abilities. But I understand how its strange that your enemy would know who's faith is bolstered. Its a part of the rules on faith that frustrates me for similar reasons. But that's just the nature of faith I guess.

[Toogeloo]

All the above posters have pretty much nailed it. I can't tell you how many times I have used Spirit of the Martyr in the Shooting/Assault phases and never had to make a save for the unit it was used on. It become more of a, "Don't put myself in that position," type thing. I end up making it too tempting for him to shoot or assault anything other than what I want him to by actually presenting Seraphim, Saint, and Canoness models as the easiest and prime targets for most armies while keeping my Battle Sisters in cover or transport.

[ValourousHeart]

I want to thank everyone for the quick replies.

 

So prior to my opponent declaring shooting targets and charges, I have to decide if I am going to use Martyr or Passion.

And in addition I have to be wary of an opponent threatening multiple units in an attempt to make me bleed faith.

 

And while most opponents will assault anyway... they may end up charging the 1 unit that fails its faith roll, as opposed to the closest unit that passed theirs.

[asianavatar]

they may end up charging the 1 unit that fails its faith roll, as opposed to the closest unit that passed theirs

 

Which is not a bad thing if that is what you want them to do.... :D

[neoaa034]

also, unless I'm missing something either they have chosen to not shoot at any unit or they are required to assault the unit that they shot at in the shooting phase. So unless its a unit with no ranged weapons they are giving shooting up in order to threaten both of your units.

[ValourousHeart]

It was an 1850 game.

I had 2 units of Sera that were being threatened, one with vet + 2 flamer sera

And the other was Can + Vet.

They had just eliminated the closest threat to my objective... an then got hit with one of his 3 template skimmers (ap2)

 

He had a warrior squad that was mostly unmolested that moved up and chose to fleet to get within charge range.

 

He declared that he was charging and I asked if he had a power weapon and if he was going to try to contact both units.

This is when the discussion about when I had to roll came up.

 

I ended up not rolling that turn, mostly because I was just knocking the spit out of him anyways.

 

A turn later the game ended and he had half of a unit of witches on the far end of the board, but over a foot away from his objective.

I had a sister squad on my objective.

Of my tanks... one Rhino was wrecked, 2 were immobilized, the fourth was unharmed... 2 exorcists were immobilized and third was unharmed.

 

All of his skimmers were wrecked or exploded... I think he might have had 11 to start with.

[Toogeloo]

Sisters do quite well against Dark Eldar in my experience, mainly because their army is outdated as ours is, but at least our template weapons and new tank rules actually played in favor of Sisters in the new edition.

[Crayoneater]

Faith Points are a bit of a pain in tournaments, your opponents skill level and knowledge of your army and faith points are often limited.

 

-I've recently made a card and placed it in a plastic tent card holder to be put on the game table stating the rules.

-I had planned on making tokens but instead i've got an extra set of dice to roll and leave a counter behind if the squad passes the roll, the die matches my card.

-Lastly each game explain the act of rollling for faith to your opponent and ask that he gives you time to react at the various stages of the round...

 

I really think Sisters of Battle are a a bit of a pain in tournaments and it would be easy for certain novice players to get penalized points for using them incorrectly. It's easy for your opponent to feel cheated with this army, so do your research!