Isiah Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 What about Chonus? Do we really agree that he and the tank are 1 KP total that is only earned when both are destroyed? So, tank destroyed, chronus does not escape: 1 KP. Chronus escapes but is killed later: 1 KP. Chronus escapes and lives on: 0 KP. Correct? I think correct yes, but let's factor in the destroyed tank too just for fun: Tank destroyed and Chronus does not escape: 1 KP. Chronus escapes but is killed later: 1 KP [+ 1 KP for the tank] = 2 KP in total Chronus escapes and lives on: 0 KP [+ 1 KP for the tank] = 1 KP in total [edit: spelling] Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160685-chronus-and-deathwind-launchers/page/2/#findComment-1889695 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silber Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Uh, I should have made it more clear. What I meant was like so: Tank destroyed, Chronus does not escape: 1 KP Tank destroyed, Chronus escapes but is killed later: 1 KP Tank destroyed, Chronus lives on: 0 KP And I almost believed we'd agree..... :tu: EDIT: The reason for this interpretation of course would be that they are one unit, regardless of wether Chronus takes on a seperate profile later. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160685-chronus-and-deathwind-launchers/page/2/#findComment-1889707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 EDIT:The reason for this interpretation of course would be that they are one unit, regardless of wether Chronus takes on a seperate profile later. Well that's the bit open to interpretation :D. You buy him separately yes but he is taken as an 'upgrade to a vehicle' so if/until he jumps out he is part of it, tank and Chronus a unit of 1. (If they were a unit of two then presumably like artillery models with crew you could dice to see which element you hit.). Yet you can still use his better BS. Now, if he jumps out he follows his profile as an infantry unit of 1 for the "remainder of the game" ie he is no longer merely the upgrade he once was. That to me means he becomes a unit separate from the destroyed tank. Andhence a new KP. Of course I'm probably totally wrong.... :). ---------- Although very closely related with regards the Thunderfire and Techie it is more clearcut: Cannon and Techie are bought as one unit consisting of two parts and being an artillery unit each can be targeted separately so: • If you destroy the Cannon yet the Techie survives, 50% of the unit remains so no KP. • If you destroy the Techie the Cannon is removed anyway because it has run out of crew [artillery rule p55 BRB]. So 100% of the unit is destroyed so 1 KP is yielded. • If you destroy them both then 100% of the unit is destroyed anyway so again 1 KP is yielded. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160685-chronus-and-deathwind-launchers/page/2/#findComment-1889767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olesh Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Well that's the bit open to interpretation :). You buy him separately yes but he is taken as an 'upgrade to a vehicle' so if/until he jumps out he is part of it, tank and Chronus a unit of 1. (If they were a unit of two then presumably like artillery models with crew you could dice to see which element you hit.). Yet you can still use his better BS. Now, if he jumps out he follows his profile as an infantry unit of 1 for the "remainder of the game" ie he is no longer merely the upgrade he once was. That to me means he becomes a unit separate from the destroyed tank. Andhence a new KP. Of course I'm probably totally wrong.... ;). I can see the arguments either way, but fundamentally, I think, it's important to remember that he's an upgrade character; you purchase him as an upgrade to a vehicle. You don't purchase him separately and assign him to J. Random Tank, and you can't start him running around on his own. Then again, it could be like the utterly absurd deal where every time a biovore fires it gives a free KP to the enemy. The rules don't always make sense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160685-chronus-and-deathwind-launchers/page/2/#findComment-1894520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneyedwilly Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 as far as dropping and then throwing out pie plates I cant find anything in any of the rule books or FAQ's that says you cant fire them when they drop, there is no remark as far as how fast they move... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160685-chronus-and-deathwind-launchers/page/2/#findComment-1894601 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsPug Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Hi all! Page 95 of the rule book says "Vehicles count as having moved at cruising speed". Page 58 says "vehicles that moved at cruising speed may not fire". Nothing in the codex entry overrides that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160685-chronus-and-deathwind-launchers/page/2/#findComment-1894624 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneyedwilly Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 its a transport, not a vehicle,no where does it say at what speed drop pod moves at, rule book is grey on that area, we have tried and tried to get this justified Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160685-chronus-and-deathwind-launchers/page/2/#findComment-1894948 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souchan Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 its a transport, not a vehicle,no where does it say at what speed drop pod moves at, rule book is grey on that area, we have tried and tried to get this justified A transport IS a vehicle by default. Not all vehicles are transports though, but the reverse is definitely true(unless there's an odd IA MC transport(squiggoth?)) that I don't know about. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160685-chronus-and-deathwind-launchers/page/2/#findComment-1895112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsPug Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Hi Page 135 of C:SM under Drop Pod says Unit Type: Vehicle (open topped). So its definately a vehicle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160685-chronus-and-deathwind-launchers/page/2/#findComment-1895798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthawks Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 its a transport, not a vehicle,no where does it say at what speed drop pod moves at, rule book is grey on that area, we have tried and tried to get this justified BRB P95, "DEEP STRIKE" paragraph 6 - "Vehicles count as having moved at cruising speed." ItsPug covered the vehicle part. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160685-chronus-and-deathwind-launchers/page/2/#findComment-1896193 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneyedwilly Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 true, but it a fast vehicle and at cruising speed it can fire 1 weapon, and its machine spirit Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160685-chronus-and-deathwind-launchers/page/2/#findComment-1901262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelmage99 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Assuming Codex Space Marines. No, wrong on both counts. A Pod is not Fast, nor has it got POTMS. Perhaps you are talking about Drop Pods fropm Codex Black Templars....in which case you should really specify. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160685-chronus-and-deathwind-launchers/page/2/#findComment-1901301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsPug Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Hi I think even using Codex:Black Templars it wouldn't allow a first turn shot as the drop pod is moving at cruising speed (page 95 BRB) which counts as 'more than 6" and up to 12"(page 57 BRB). the POTMS in the Templars codex only allows an extra weapon to be fired at BS2 if the vehicle 'has moved no more than 6"' (page 29 codex:BT). At least thats the way I read it by RAW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160685-chronus-and-deathwind-launchers/page/2/#findComment-1902096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souchan Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 HiI think even using Codex:Black Templars it wouldn't allow a first turn shot as the drop pod is moving at cruising speed (page 95 BRB) which counts as 'more than 6" and up to 12"(page 57 BRB). the POTMS in the Templars codex only allows an extra weapon to be fired at BS2 if the vehicle 'has moved no more than 6"' (page 29 codex:BT). At least thats the way I read it by RAW. BT droppods make specific mention that they may fire after landing, the last line on p38.(no, not the quote, above that ++REMOVED++(directed at anyone thinking to point that out) :D) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160685-chronus-and-deathwind-launchers/page/2/#findComment-1902344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsPug Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Feel like a idiot, didn't even occur to me to check the entry in the army list proper, just checked the rules for the POTMS. Sorry. @Souchan Nice eyes, never noticed that, probably never would have either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160685-chronus-and-deathwind-launchers/page/2/#findComment-1904434 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jubei124 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Yeah, BT drop pods are different besides being able to fire on the turn they land we also we don't use the deep strike rules for them, we have to use our drop pod assault rule from our codex. It pretty much works the same but we don't get to use the deep strike mishaps table, so if our pods happen to go off the table we lose them and whatever was inside. :jaw: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160685-chronus-and-deathwind-launchers/page/2/#findComment-1905011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 What about Chonus? Do we really agree that he and the tank are 1 KP total that is only earned when both are destroyed? So, tank destroyed, chronus does not escape: 1 KP. Chronus escapes but is killed later: 1 KP. Chronus escapes and lives on: 0 KP. Correct? I think correct yes, but let's factor in the destroyed tank too just for fun: Tank destroyed and Chronus does not escape: 1 KP. Chronus escapes but is killed later: 1 KP [+ 1 KP for the tank] = 2 KP in total Chronus escapes and lives on: 0 KP [+ 1 KP for the tank] = 1 KP in total [edit: spelling] This logic gives space wolves the ability to take chronus... if hes just an upgrade, and they get all the variants and options thereof. If hes taken as a seperate unit... then he cant be. So Im rather interested in this one. Any more thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160685-chronus-and-deathwind-launchers/page/2/#findComment-1907657 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Chronos us an upgrade, not a seperate character, says so in his "tank comander rule." I am currently laughing quite hard, a space wolf with combat tactics special rule. :confused: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160685-chronus-and-deathwind-launchers/page/2/#findComment-1910100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bran Scalphunter Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Chronos us an upgrade, not a seperate character, says so in his "tank comander rule." I am currently laughing quite hard, a space wolf with combat tactics special rule. :lol: Actually, as according to CSW, he'd loose Combat Tactics, as Space Wolves do not have/use that rule. All the rest he'd keep. Besides, his name is Iron Priest Pryr Deathhowler... ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160685-chronus-and-deathwind-launchers/page/2/#findComment-1911038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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