GK Heroes

[kennedy]

will be playing a 1750 tourney with a good mix of armies; orcs, nids, csm, eldar, ig, and sm variants.

i usually go with a grand master, but in reading many of the threads here, i noticed a lot of recommendations for using a brother captain. i know a major part of this has to do with points, but have you found it to be worth losing the gm`s extras, including the force weapon?

if i still do use the gm, would i be better of taking Stern instead?

thanks for any insight into this.

[number6]

Firstly, you should find out what FAQs/Errata the tourney is using. The only reason to consider the GM, IMHO, is because of the ancient force weapon rules. Otherwise, you're almost always better off spending almost exactly the same number of points on a BC along with two additional GKTs in the retinue instead. (You get the same number of wounds, but twice the number of melee attacks and thrice the number of shots. Anything that really deserves to die from a force weapon these days has Eternal Warrior. Modern force weapons are almost entirely useless in 5th edition.)

 

Assuming you get to use the DH's special force weapon rules, I'd rate the GM equivalently to the BC+GKT retinue I just mentioned. Without the DH force weapon, he's a seriously overpriced model in the current game climate. His WS isn't even as good as more mundane Marine HQs (and some Elites!). Ditto for his Initiative. And he has no instakill protection, so if you have to allocate an insta-killing wound to him (e.g., a power fist) and he fails his invul save, he's dead as a doornail. What good is 3 wounds if you're no more survivable than a BC?

 

Most of the time, I'm much happier taking a more mundane HQ -- usually no different in loadout than an Elites GKT unit -- and spreading more points, redundancy, and love throughout the rest of my list. I have a personal distaste for flashy character models that soak up a lot of points, attention, and do most of the dirty work of an army list. (E.g., Abbaddon.) It strikes me as an EASY BUTTON way to win a game for a player. Besides, the GK GM soaks up those kinds of points when even moderately wargear'd up, yet he doesn't even come close to stacking up when compared to today's equivalent character models.

 

As you can see, I'm not a fan of the guy. <_< He only gets table time in extremely fluffy games (e.g., in my current 40K league games themed around the 13th Black Crusade) or for Apocalypse. Otherwise, he's "behind the scenes" only.

[templargdt]

I agree with 6 that it matters what the tourney rules are. If they are going RAW and the GKGM force weapon will instakill things with eternal warrior, I think it's worth it. In the Ironman I just played in my GM instakilled a very expensive demon for me, and if I had used him better would have bagged me at least another. If you know you'll be seeing a fair amount of lash lists, I'd go GM+incense+storm shield.

 

If they aren't using the RAW, then don't bother and go with the BC.

[kennedy]

i will be able to make use of his force weapon to `kill outright`, which is great. i have already used him in a previous event our club has run. i am just starting to question whether he is worth the points required to field him. as number 6 points out, i can take a bc with a 2 term. retinue for the same points.

i have never used a bc as my hero before, and having just one wound makes me a little nervous. i guess if he is with a decent retinue the one wound probably wouldnt be as scary. i dont like the idea that he could disappear after failing just one save. i want my hero to be `eternal`, dont we all.

thanks so far.

[Grand Master Iapetus]

Well, 3 options really: Stern, GM, or BC.

 

The GM beats Stern IMO - GM has one more wound for the same price. Generally, I wouldn't use Stern - unless you plan on running a 2 GK Hero List...

 

If you run the GM, you should always run a retinue as it allows you to spread wounds around. IMO if you don't have the points to take the retinue, don't even bother taking the GM: Go with the BC.

 

The other thing to consider when you look at runing a GM vs. BC is taking a Psycannon on the GM. I haven't done the mathammer, but in application it seems to make up for the SB shooting you lose: 36" range, 3 shots, BS5 hits on 2's and S6 (generally) wounds on 2's.

[skarn]

I5 (and with SI, i6 against chaos) means that the GM should kill a BC + 2GKT. It also means that he can take on other characters on a more equal footing than regular GkT, like most of the new SM ones (who he has more attacks than) or ork biker warbosses. And if he gets power-fisted (hehe), then that's 2 or 3 GKT that aren't copping it. Having said that though, a GM and 4 gkt puts out 17 WS5 S6 hits. Barring really bad dice, if anything with I1 survives that you shouldn't have charged it in the first place.

 

He is most definitely useful. Is he worth his cost? It depends on the rest of your army, but I think so. ATM I run 5 GKT in one LR and a GM and 8 PAGK (2 x INC) in another (and an 8 man footslogger 2xPC PAGK squad). In the 10 or so games I've used it for my GM has killed Cato Sicarius, a dark angel librarian, 3 chaos lords and 2 biker warbosses.

 

In a footslogger GK army with dreads and stuff, the BC might be the better choice, but for what Silent Requiem would call a fire list (like mine above) the GM is the way to go IMO.

[jeffersonian000]

One thing to note: GKT retinues are 3-9, not 2-9. You cannot take only 2 GKT in a retinue for a GK Hero; 3 is the minimum.

 

SJ

[Silber]

Yeah, he's referring to the standard GKT squad, I think, which allows you to take a BC and two GKT as a minimum. That doesn't fill your mandatory HQ choice of course, but for comparison it's okay....

[kennedy]

thanks for the feedback. i think i will be going with a GM with a 4 term retinue. give him and one other psycannons. have him lead a couple squads of pagk, a couple squads of ist to save on points and add numbers, 2 landraiders, and maybe a shooty inguisitor with psycannon, accompanied by plasma cannon and heavy bolters in retinue, and if points allow maybe even an assassin. i`ll see how the numbers work out. i havent been able to get any practice games in, but my son(he is playing nids this time) and i will at least have some fun this weekend.

i will try to post my outcome next week.