Entry1 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 A friend of mine plays the changling every game and he reads the rules as affecting every unit that shoots with in 24" I've checked on "searchie" and it looks like the verdict is still has speculation as to how the rule works. Adepticon says once per turn but its not GW Official FAQs. I feel it should only work once per turn otherwise ot is a little overpowered. We play his way that it affects every unit. :) But my question is, if I fail my LD and shoot a fellow unit can I assault the unit I was orginally trying to shoot. According to the rule book you can't assault a unit you didn't shoot at but it doesn't clarify under the Changling entry. Heres the scenario; My DC fire attempting to shoot his Blood Crushers before they charge, they fail their LD and shoot my VAS squad. Now he sais I can't charge his Bloodcrushers because I shot a differant unit. My argument was I intended to shoot the crushers and it doesn't say the Changling affects units and their assaults. What is everyones thoughts on this? I think its going over board with the power but then again I'm not the one using it, thanks in advance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160715-changeling/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Strictly by the rules you would not be allowed to assault the original intended target, since your unit did not shoot at it. But no, the power can not be used on every unit that is shooting. This is the relevant part of the rule, explaining how it is used: This power can be used in the enemy Shooting phase. Pick any enemy unit that is visible to the Changeling and is about to fire. If the unit is found to be within 24" of the Changeling, it is affected by his mind altering mirage. It is not an "area effect" that is allways active. It has to specifically be targeted at an enemy unit, as described above. It is a "power" that can be used at the choice of the player. "This power can be used in the enemy Shooting phase." So the player selects an enemy unit and declares that he uses the power on it. He then "has used the power in the enemy shooting phase" as the rules allow him to. The rules don't say he can use the power as many times as he wants, or on any enemy unit within range. The process of picking a specific enemy unit, as described on the rule above, would be completely redundant if it would work on every enemy unit within range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160715-changeling/#findComment-1885926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Legatus, it says ANY enemy unit about to fire within 24", so by RAW, it does effect every unit within 24". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160715-changeling/#findComment-1885973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Vyze Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 But it also says pick. If it were an Area of Effect power it would simply say 'every unit' as opposed to 'pick any unit'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160715-changeling/#findComment-1885976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 The rule continues by explaining what happens to "the unit" that has been picked. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160715-changeling/#findComment-1885989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 you guys are bringing up the arguement, and not answering the OP. RAW, i would also say that you couldnt, but in the spirit of the rules i would say they could.... I too believe that the changlings ability only works once a turn, as most pyschic abilities only work once a turn, unless specificied, I also know that all the daemon "spells" dont count as pyschic, but i still treat them as such types of abilties. way over powered for 5 points if you can use it on every enemy in range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160715-changeling/#findComment-1886048 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I can vaguely remember hearing of something very overpowered when 4th Edition first came out... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160715-changeling/#findComment-1886049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Its an argument worth bringing up. "Pick any enemy unit..." very, very clearly grammatically means any one unit. Very open and shut that im afraid (if the rule is exactly as Legatus quoted). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160715-changeling/#findComment-1886052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Point of fact: "any" means one of a group; "every" means all of a group. also, a "couple" means two, and a "few" means three. In this case, the use of "any unit" means one of the units in a group, not every unit in a group. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160715-changeling/#findComment-1886097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entry1 Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 Currently the way its used in our gaming group its clearly broken, I wish they would FAQ this because its clearly poorly written. It seems the first time everyone reads the rule its once a turn. After playing a few games they re-read it and all of a sudden its every unit. Now if its affecting assault as well thats the best 5 points ever spent for a unit upgrade. I'm not a very competative player but that just gets annoying coupled with Fate Weaver allowing him to re-roll every save in the book!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160715-changeling/#findComment-1886113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Currently the way its used in our gaming group its clearly broken, I wish they would FAQ this because its clearly poorly written. It seems the first time everyone reads the rule its once a turn. After playing a few games they re-read it and all of a sudden its every unit. Now if its affecting assault as well thats the best 5 points ever spent for a unit upgrade. I'm not a very competative player but that just gets annoying coupled with Fate Weaver allowing him to re-roll every save in the book!!! Entry- the sad thing however mate, is the way your group plays it isnt "broken" - its just plain wrong. Its really, really clear and I cant understand how they're swinging it to mean every unit. Its not even something id even consider waiting for in a FAQ cause I dont think it would be that frequently asked ><; Am I wrong here, guys? ><; Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160715-changeling/#findComment-1886116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 yeah it says any, not all, which means a single instance of the power effects one unit, and while its not a psychic power because its from a deamon (which was a stupid move I think) its still a power used in the shooting phase and you dont get multiples of those. Otherwise you could fire deamon doombolts all day. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160715-changeling/#findComment-1886172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Maybe they should've made them count as Psychic powers that always passed (after all, a Daemon's not gonna get attacked by a Daemon when using its powers). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160715-changeling/#findComment-1886173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 or better yet just make deamons imune to perils of the warp, then messing with their ld and psychic hoods, and all the other wargear and effects and rules that involve psychic powers are still in effect, and it would have less silly stuff like boon of mutationizing gargantuan creature Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160715-changeling/#findComment-1888630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymirl Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 To me the "pick any unit" definatly looks like you're limited to one attempt with this power a turn. If hes claiming all units then hes clearly ignoring the 'pick' part of the rule. But if a unit does get distracted into shooting a different target then you'd be stuck, having shot at something else the normal rules would apply, theres no argument there. The simplest way around it though is to not shoot, hes not so hot in hand to hand so putting a power-armoured fist into his face/faces ought to discourage him from his tricksy ways... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160715-changeling/#findComment-1888640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Isnt it that you can only assault the unit that you declared firing on? After all otherwise you could try to fire at someone whos out of range and then assault someone closer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160715-changeling/#findComment-1888828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 You'd still have to assault the unit you shot at - you still shot at that unit, they were just out of range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160715-changeling/#findComment-1888837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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