dietrich Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Does Fenris have PDF or IG stationed on-planet? In all the fluff that I can recall, the Space Wolves are responsible for the defense of Fenris. Do they have any standing regiments to aid in the planets defense - whether they are native PDF or imported IG regiments? Ultramar has a PDF that assists the defense of the planet and system. Don't know about any other SM homeworlds though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEFF4i Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Does Fenris have PDF or IG stationed on-planet? In all the fluff that I can recall, the Space Wolves are responsible for the defense of Fenris. Do they have any standing regiments to aid in the planets defense - whether they are native PDF or imported IG regiments? Ultramar has a PDF that assists the defense of the planet and system. Don't know about any other SM homeworlds though. Well, your first problem is using smurfs as an example, to us! ^_^ In all of my knowledge, no. We have worked with PDF and IG before on some of the planets within our system, but Fenris itself is a home for Wolves and the local population alone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/#findComment-1888050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 As far as i know Logan is almost always around. Than we have the Spacewolves who train the young ones aka Bloodclaws. Not to mention that Björn is also in the Fang. I would say who needs the aid of some IG. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/#findComment-1888055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tiger Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I'd say if there is not a definitive no, then they probably do, allot of chapters have PDF forces, not just ultramarines, and thats new fluff, so it may not of deemed worthy of mention before, afterall the space wolves can't be in several places at once, someone has to defend the home planet when the pups are away. they'd probably be similar to valhallans in looks, and probably very aggressive on the attack like there marine masters, perhaps drilled vigorously in hand to hand combat and short range weaponry and with an intelligent command structure, so they continue to reflect the wolves in there fighting styles. and maybe they'd be the only guardsmen able to handle fenrisian ale (other than Yarrick who could probably drain fenris dry of ale from sheer awesomeness and still be sober) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/#findComment-1888083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEFF4i Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I'd say if there is not a definitive no, then they probably do, allot of chapters have PDF forces, not just ultramarines, and thats new fluff, so it may not of deemed worthy of mention before, afterall the space wolves can't be in several places at once, someone has to defend the home planet when the pups are away. they'd probably be similar to valhallans in looks, and probably very aggressive on the attack like there marine masters, perhaps drilled vigorously in hand to hand combat and short range weaponry and with an intelligent command structure, so they continue to reflect the wolves in there fighting styles. and maybe they'd be the only guardsmen able to handle fenrisian ale (other than Yarrick who could probably drain fenris dry of ale from sheer awesomeness and still be sober) THe problem is, there is (to my knowledge), absolutely no mention of any PDF/IG forces on Fenris. The pups leave a lot defending the galaxy, granted, but as mentioned, Bjorn, Logan (and by default a portion of his Company), and many other forces almost never leave. Perhaps they come in when Logan has to leave, i.e. Black Crusade defense. Also, don't forget, if you believe in the Ragnar book fluff, we have some correspondance with House Belisarius, so there would be some assistance from their personal guard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/#findComment-1888142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dietrich Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 I remember there's a story in the fluff of Bjorn being awoken from his Dreadnaught slumber to led the defense of the Fang against the Thousand Sons. The Great Companies were all off-world (due to some Tzeentchian trick!), and the defense was a bunch of dreads, servitors, iron priests, and a few handfuls of injured Space Wolves. (iirc) I was thinking the native population is pretty backwards. The Wolf Priests watch them to select new recruits, and iirc, the natives don't know who or what the Wolf Priests are, just that they select the brave and strong to ascend to the stars. That says to me, there is little to no central organization and that they're aren't forming the locals into regiments and handing out lasguns when the big bad xenos/chaos threat comes to town. Now, SWs do seem to have a fair number of 'non-marines' at the Fang. And, I could believe that they do have 'regular' humans, native Fenrisians who didn't make the cut as Marines, that they organize into squads and use for defense of the fang and/or as weapon crews. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/#findComment-1888150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bran Scalphunter Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 / begin Rune Priest in-training mode :P *eyes glow white with power* Young pups, Fenris has no Planetary Defense Force nor does it have Imperial Guard regiments stationed on planet. The Fang is the second largest and second most defended place in the entire Imperium, with the tallest spires reaching up into Fenris' atmosphere and holding a space dock for the Legion's Fleet. Deep within the Fang sleep the Old Ones, the Dreadnoughts tended to by the Iron Priests. Foremost amongst the slumbering titans is Bjorn the Fell-Handed, who arises once every millenia to test the Rune Priests ( by the way Beef, you're about due for your inspection :lol: ) and has the honor of saying that he defended Fenris against invaders twice. Fenris has been invaded twice, once by the bastard children of Red Magnus and once by the Mad Tyrant Vandire's force. Both times Bjorn was awakened and the venerable one led the native tribesmen and a skeletal force of Wolves. The Legion's thralls and Priests also fought in the Fang's defense during both conflicts. Bondsmen, the crew of the Fleet's ships and general assistance to the Wolves fought then, bringing much glory to their families. If the need were ever great enough, there is no doubt that dozens of Guard regiments would flock to Fenris, as would the House Belisarius. Much of the Imperium's western territories are held by the might of the Wolves, and if they were to fall, so too would the Imperium... *eyes slowly fade back to normal* /end Rune Priest in-training mode I miss anything O Venerable Beef and Venerable Vash and Venerable DB? :devil: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/#findComment-1888196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dietrich Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 Thanks, Bran, that's pretty much what I thought, but I don't read as much fluff as others. So, if you were going to model a Fenris 'defense force', what would it be like? I'd like to build something that is 'fieldable' in some fashion as a 'count as' force, but it'd mostly be for APOC. In other words, I don't want a SW force. I'm looking more for an IG, DH, or WH army (unless someone has a better 'count as' army). Thanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/#findComment-1888202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 The Fang is the second largest and second most defended place in the entire Imperium, I hate to jump in, but that spot is taken by Cadia due to the sheer number of orbital defences, fortifications and the monster that is the Bastion Fleets (SM fleets specialise in planetary assault rather than ship-to-ship combat, and you guys don't have nearly as many ships). I reckon you could quite easily take the slot for the place with the second most badass defenders in the Imperium though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/#findComment-1888211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Second stongest individual fortress maybe (after terra/imperial palace)? If you want a Fenris 'defence force', I'd go with squads of guard infantry, maybe a smattering of stormtroopers (trained bondsman boarding parties maybe?) but no upper command structure. Have lots of Iron priests and servitors for heavy weapons support and a few dreadnoughts. Probably light on normal marines - maybe a few wolf guard to lead the normal humans and maybe a squad of BC's? Just a thought... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/#findComment-1888249 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEFF4i Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Thanks, Bran, that's pretty much what I thought, but I don't read as much fluff as others. So, if you were going to model a Fenris 'defense force', what would it be like? I'd like to build something that is 'fieldable' in some fashion as a 'count as' force, but it'd mostly be for APOC. In other words, I don't want a SW force. I'm looking more for an IG, DH, or WH army (unless someone has a better 'count as' army). Thanks. Depends, what are you going for unit-wise? I'm working on an Armoured Company (just beginning) that is stationed in Space Wolf space called Los Lobos de la Muerto. Name isn't totally fluffy, but I use my Land Raider with Forge Wolf Space Wolves stuff to lead it. Obviously this is a far cry from a tournament legal list, but I think its cool to see some wolfy tanks leading a charge of IG tanks. If you were to go with Fenris-style humans, there's a few different directions... If you are looking for tournament legal, I'd say adopt Space Wolf colors for them, and mostly Valhallan units. Make up some fluff if you want, plenty of people around here are willing to assist with that, to keep it sensible. In addition, maybe snag a Grey Hunter or Blood Claw box and use wolfy bits to decorate them. Say they are conscripts or something of the sort. Don't forget, Logan Grimnar is beloved by many people, including Guardsman, for his humanitarian nature. It wouldn't be unheard of for maybe a small contingent of Guardsmen to ask assistance of the Wolves in training, and in turn, assist them where possible with their force. Just tossing ideas out there. If you are looking for something to use with friends, who are open-minded, there really are no limitations. Make it sensible, but there are Guardsman in Space Wolf Space, and served with Logan Grimnar in Abaddon's 13th Black Crusade, maybe they picked something up there. If you are looking for specific guard regiments, here's a list from http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/13th_Black...Marine_Chapters Agripinaa Home Guard Blitzen Heavy Armoured Cadian Shock Troops Cadian Youth Army Cadian Kasrkin Thracian Guard Gudrunite Rifles Narmenian Tank Brigade Cthonian Armoured Cavalry Drookian Fenguard Narsine Yeomanry Kellersburg Irregulars Finreht Highlanders Knovian Gharkas Zenonian Free Companies Barelian Penal Legions Avellorn Field Regiments Jouran Dragoons Lots of these chapters have almost no specific fluff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/#findComment-1888266 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApolloSZ Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Theres also the factor that never are all the Great Companies sent away at once, at least one is left behind lest (perish the thought) a great tragedy befell the chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/#findComment-1888268 Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzyman1981 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 As Apollo mentioned there is always one or two Great Companies left from fighting in case something happens to all the rest of the Space Wolves, plus you would have the local population of Fenrisians that work for the Wolves in the Fang. Fenris is far from defenseless when the majority of the Space Wolves are away. I guess in a technical sense we have PDF just not organized in the same way as the "normal" PDF forces are, nor are any units of Imperial Guard stationed on Fenris as far as I am aware. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/#findComment-1888306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 ApolloSZ Posted Today, 07:19 PM Theres also the factor that never are all the Great Companies sent away at once, at least one is left behind lest (perish the thought) a great tragedy befell the chapter. Hm, I'm not sure of the logic of that. I mean, how can the Fenrisian ale run out if there is no-one around to drink it? <_< Second stongest individual fortress maybe (after terra/imperial palace)? Not even that. You've still got to beat Mars with its three Titan Legions, Centurio Ordinatus and all the best toys the Mechanicum has to offer. Luna has got to be up there with the best too. Titan as well with the Grey Knights. Seriously, I still can't see the Wolves ranking up there with the full might of the Martian Mechanicum. You're good among the Space Marines, but once you start comparing yourselves to the kind of defence Titan Legions could offer, you're out of your class. As a side note, does Fenris not have a Titan detachment? I know Macragge did against Behemoth, from Legio Praetor (a bit people conveniently forget when telling the story :( ). Did none ever come to Fenris? I know you aren't exactly best buddies with the Mechanicum, but there is a point where petty bickering stops. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/#findComment-1888314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzyman1981 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 It's more about the distrust, the Iron Priests...while venerated for what they do keeping the armor working.....are even more shunned (for lack of a better word) than most other Space Marine Chapters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/#findComment-1888322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChainsawDR Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Just to add my 2cents worth... I've just finished reading all of the Space Wolves Novels (finished Wolf's Honour yesterday) and there is definately NOT a PDF or IG stationed on Fenris. The whole planet is full of barbarian tribes, and all the best warriors are selected to join the wolves. Leman Russ chose Fenris, and wanted it kept in this way so it kept the planet constantly fighting and providing new wolves. They'd never start recruiting normal humans and start giving them lasguns. As mentioned above, there is always one company of wolves stationed on Fenris, incase the others all get wiped out, so the chapter will live on. I'm sorry to say, but if you're wanting a mixed IG/SW force then you'd have to think up an "off-planet" fluff, because a Fenris based one goes against all of the novels and fluff ever written for the Space Wolves. When Madox and the Thousand Sons kept a temple on Fenris (when Ragnar Blackmane killed him) the only people who responded to the threat were Space Wolves - absolutely no mention of IG or PDF's - and if there was some then they would have been there, no doubt about it. The Space Wolves have worked with PDF's and IG on countless worlds, such as Garm where Leman Russ's spear is kept, and Chary's. Maybe a fluff along the lines of a Wolf Lord requisitioning an Imperial Guard force, and due to a prolonged campaign and the Imperial Bureucracy never asking for them back - never gave them back. Sorry to piss on the bonfire, but it screamed at me "Nooooo!!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/#findComment-1888340 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 @Bran: you´re correct about the first Siege of the Fang. Only the part of the second Siege of the Fang needs some correction. It´s not mentioned that Bjorn led the defense cause this time some GC had been at home. It´s not sure that they had awoken Lord Bjorn at all cause there was no need. At the end the Siege was broken from outside as the GC of Kyrl Grimblood returned to the Fang. @Grand master Tyrak: The Fang is the second largest and best defended Fortress in the Universe. Second only to the Imperial Palace. Cadia isn´t a single Fortress. It´s a Fortress planet, that´s a big difference. The Fang is protected by voidshields back from the Golden Age of Technologie. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/#findComment-1888473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I miss anything O Venerable Beef and Venerable Vash and Venerable DB? Nope pretty thorough. :D I'd say if there is not a definitive no, then they probably do No Space Wolves do NOT have a PDF. Planetary Defense Forces are mostly militia raised from the citizenry. Fenris has no formal citizenry, as Russ intended the population remains in a feudal state. However what the Space Wolves DO Have are Serfs. The Chapter Serfs for the Space Wolves are not mindless workers like in some other Chapters, they're men of Fenris, usually failed aspirants or descendants of aspirants who are highly trained and armed. When push comes to shove they will fight and are fully capable of doing so. In the novel Grey Hunter when Berek Thunderfist and his Company launch a boarding action against a Chaos vessel intent on boarding them, it's the Serfs who defend the ship (and do so successfully too). So Space Wolf PDF? Nope, absolutely not, ever, nothing, nadda. Space Wolf Serfs? Oh heck ya. It's totally logical to have a bunch of lasgun toting Fenresians sporting Space Wolf insignia backing up a Space Wolf force, easiest way to do that is take allied Inquisitorial Storm Troopers from the WH or DH Codex. Not even that. You've still got to beat Mars with its three Titan Legions, Centurio Ordinatus and all the best toys the Mechanicum has to offer. Luna has got to be up there with the best too. Titan as well with the Grey Knights. The fluff states in black and white that the Fang is the second most mighty fortress in the Imperium after the Imperial Palace itself. That's irrefutable whether you agree or not. And it makes sense, sure Mars has several home Titan Legions and Cadia is a world covered in fortresses but we're talking single fortress here, not considering who and what garrisons it. The Fang is the second most powerfull single fortress in the Imperium, right after the Imperial Palace. We know that for a fact. As a side note, does Fenris not have a Titan detachment? I know Macragge did against Behemoth, from Legio Praetor (a bit people conveniently forget when telling the story ). Did none ever come to Fenris? I know you aren't exactly best buddies with the Mechanicum, but there is a point where petty bickering stops. Macragge does not have it's own Titan detatchment either. The defense of Macragge during the 1st Tyrannic War was a combined arms effort and the Ultramarines were immensely aided by a force of the Legio Praetor which was nearby and able to aid and a Segmentum Fleet. In fact it was the brave sacrifice of the Fleet Admirable and his flagship that actually enabled the victory at all, which is often overlooked when telling the tale. You also have to remember that Fenris itself is hostile to all invaders. The sheer cold and harsh environment makes the going difficult, the dangerous and deadly local predators stalk and kill invaders, even the tribesmen fight despite being out classed and out gunned and the Fang itself is the largest mountain in the Imperium, hardly an easy thing to invade trying to charge up the slope only to bring an avalanche down on your head. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/#findComment-1888509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I think the difference between the Serfs and a PDF is splitting hairs. I will admit however that our serfs do alot more than just fight to defend the homefront. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/#findComment-1888541 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I think the difference between the Serfs and a PDF is splitting hairs. I will admit however that our serfs do alot more than just fight to defend the homefront. It's more than splitting hairs, a PDF is a formal fighting force organised like a Guard Regiment. Serfs are property of the Chapter and in the Space Wolves case organised exactly like they are and act and fight like Fenresians and there's no indication they are organised anything like an IG Regiment nor is fighting their primary purpose. The most likely serfs to fight alongside the Wolves will be the crews of star ships more akin to Naval Marines and Provosts than IG or PDF. The implications of the term are more than just what it's obvious definition implies. While PDF might indicate any fighting unit that defends a world, it's actually referencing more organised groups. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/#findComment-1888555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 *shrugs* I can see what yours saying... Ive just always considered PDF as one of their duties. Also @GMTyrak: Not the most heavily defended world, but the second most heavily defended fortress. While mars has more human defenses over all and the cadian system is an entire fortress system the Fang is the second lmost heavily defended single fortress in the known world after the emperors palace. Note, not terra, merely the palace itself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/#findComment-1888579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bran Scalphunter Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Bjorn wasn't at the Second Siege? I thought I read about it in a WD once, something about him leading a strike force of Dreadnoughts that attacked the invading forces' motor pools. Maybe it was something else, it was a while ago. But the Bondsmen/Serfs, they might be the equivalent of an IG regiment. This is because they are trained by the Wolves and armed by the Wolves, making them ferocious fighters. Also, they're described as being rather skilled space crews. Go figure, the barbarians can fly warships... ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/#findComment-1888627 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Equivalent? Bah better than an IG Regiment I'd say, hense why I suggested using Inquisitorial Storm Troopers to represent them. The description of the ships and serfs in Grey Hunter is one of my favorite parts of the Space Wolf series. Stay to repel boarders? Hah, the Serf Crew can handle that no problem. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/#findComment-1888654 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Not to forget that our Bondsmen are failed Aspirants. That means that they got already some initializing genetic enhancement in preparation to become a SW. That alone make them better then a normal IG/PDF soldier. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/#findComment-1888752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tiger Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 in the end you can do whatever you want though, fluff or not Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/#findComment-1888899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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