obs0l3te Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Actually.. if you guys read some of the Ragnar series... if I recall correctly... some of the outer systems of fenris have guard units... the wolves have sworn to protect them if called upon and vice versa. and yes Bjorn is mentioned in all of the raids on fenris. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/page/2/#findComment-1889127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Also @GMTyrak: Not the most heavily defended world, but the second most heavily defended fortress. While mars has more human defenses over all and the cadian system is an entire fortress system the Fang is the second lmost heavily defended single fortress in the known world after the emperors palace. Note, not terra, merely the palace itself. *Brightens* Ah, right! Now I get it, and that makes a lot more sense to be honest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/page/2/#findComment-1889246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
obs0l3te Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Well.. After some research.. and speaking to the correct Rune Lord... I decided to put this to a final resting place.... Sorry for raising the dead but.. "The Space wolves do not dwell alone in the mighty fortress of the fang. Like all space marine chapters they are too few in number to maintain such a massive organisation. there are numerous tasks that must be done just to maintain the fang: continual updating of its fabric and weaponry, and the monitoring of its power grid and the thermal wells that draw heat from beneath the surface of Fenris. Like other space marine chapters the space wolves keep a large fleet ready for war, and the fang includes huge dockyards and all the facilities needed to equip and control the fleets. There are countless other things which must be done just to preserve the chapter in its continual state of readiness. It is hardly suprising that the Fang is home to a large population of the chapters bondsmen. The chapters bondsmen are loyal members of the chapter, although they are not space wolves. the ancestors of these warrior-retainers came to the fang many thousands of years ago. some are descended from Fenrisian warriors who may have been selected as potential space wolves, but who were judged unfit to endure the final testing. Such individuals are brough to the fang to serve their masters in a more humble but equally vital capacity. Every Great company has its own retainers, and the great wolf himself has the largest number. Most of the spacecraft crews, drivers, and the warriors who man fenris's defenses are bondsmen of this kind. When the chapter goes to war it is these retainers who keep the Fang running and DEFEND THE PLANET AGAINST ATTACK." as for the Fang itself... "Towards the centre of Asaheim there is a range of mountains taller than any other on the planet of Fenris. The tallest peak of all lies in the very middle of the range and rises like a single gnarled tooth above the surrounding mountains. This peak, and the space marine fortress that is bulit upon and with in, is called the fang. the fang is many times as high as the mountains around it, so that is stands alone as a citadel hewn from the rock. Like a dagger driven into the belly of the sky, the fang pierces the atmosphere of fenris. the fortress of the fang is clad in armour of immense thickness and strength and is cloaked by void shields morepowerful than those found on even the most mighty of the emperor's warships. OUTSIDE EARTH, THE FANG IS SAID TO BE THE GREATEST FORTRESS IN THE HUMAN GALAXY. Dark shafts cut miles into the mountainside, concealing laser cannons which are capable of crushing the most heavily armoured spacecraft. These huge weapons are as ancient as the space wolves chapter itself, and the thermal reactors that power them are testament to the precious technology from the distant past. Upon the tip of the fang is the space wolves fleet dock, where hundreds of spacecraft are maintained in armoured hangers inside the mountain. From here the space wolves journey to distant battlefields throughout the galaxy." I hope that answers the questions properly .. and don't take what the Rune Skalds have told you about the Fang, Russ, PDF/Bondsman/Serfs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/page/2/#findComment-1895617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Ok but ALL of that was said multiple times already in this very thread... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/page/2/#findComment-1895625 Share on other sites More sharing options...
barek Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Oeps. Ignore please. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/page/2/#findComment-1895654 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Obs0l3te just quoted the exact same material, how does this add to the thread and revive the discussion? :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/page/2/#findComment-1895658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Wolf Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Brother Vash, be nice - good point, but be nice - ;) The one time the Fang was seiged, Bjoern and Wee-Jock-Poop-Pong-McPlop, Lord of the Latrines, defended the Fang with nothing more than a trusty assault cannon and a dirty mop. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/page/2/#findComment-1895661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Betrayed_Spacewolf Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 what of the iron tribe from the first ragnar book? not to insinuate that they are a pdf or a standing army but are they not the first ones at the gate to asahiem? also during the seige of the great apostate bucharius the wolves, tribes, and the space wolves all fought against his forces. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/page/2/#findComment-1895706 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Brother Vash, be nice - good point, but be nice - :( Aww I thought I was being nice, I didn't nab Bran's Exterminatussock for one... ;) what of the iron tribe from the first ragnar book? not to insinuate that they are a pdf or a standing army but are they not the first ones at the gate to asahiem? They fall into a middle ground between Chapter Bondsman and Fenresian Tribesmen and no they aren't at the gates of Asaheim I didn't think but elsewhere. also during the seige of the great apostate bucharius the wolves, tribes, and the space wolves all fought against his forces. Like I said before random groups that defend a planet are not PDF, PDF as a term in the Warhammer 40,000 universe refers to organised Planetary Defense Forces organised along the lines of the Imperial Guard. Feral Fenresian Tribesmen do not fall under that category even if they occasional fight foreign invaders. Bondsman also do not fall under that category for the same reason, they aren't a formal PDF nor is defense their primary purpose. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/page/2/#findComment-1895914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
barek Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 [Aww I thought I was being nice, I didn't nab Bran's Exterminatussock for one... :P You were being nice, but swinging Bran's sock like that, I became enveloped in some strange odours which made me feel like running for the hills. :D No hard feelings, you were right. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/page/2/#findComment-1896024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
obs0l3te Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 So if they aren't organized .. how do they defend? ok, all your crazy barbarians with swords, go fight any one who doesn't look like us? you didn't even read what I wrote. Sides i quoted it from sw fluff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/page/2/#findComment-1896099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 So if they aren't organized .. how do they defend? ok, all your crazy barbarians with swords, go fight any one who doesn't look like us? you didn't even read what I wrote. Sides i quoted it from sw fluff. Well first drop the attitude and second your missing the distinction. Tribesmen aren't very well organised anyway, they form hordes and tribes little more. Bondsman are members of the Space Wovles Chapter. A Planetary Defense Force or PDF is a specific body of strictly regimented professional soldiers raised in the defense of a planet by the dictates and structures of the Imperial Guard fighting forces. Any old group of armed men defending a planet do NOT count as PDF. Yes you quoted Space Wolf fluff but you appear to be missing the important distinction, PDF and Chapter Bondsman are NOT the same thing even if defending Fenris is one of the duties of Bondsman. I don't know how much more clear I can be. EDIT: An analogy, PDF are like the National Guard. They defend the nation, but not every wacko who picks up a gun and defends against invaders is a National Guardsmen ok? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/page/2/#findComment-1896106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Betrayed_Spacewolf Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 also during the seige of the great apostate bucharius the wolves, tribes, and the space wolves all fought against his forces. Like I said before random groups that defend a planet are not PDF, PDF as a term in the Warhammer 40,000 universe refers to organised Planetary Defense Forces organised along the lines of the Imperial Guard. Feral Fenresian Tribesmen do not fall under that category even if they occasional fight foreign invaders. Bondsman also do not fall under that category for the same reason, they aren't a formal PDF nor is defense their primary purpose. yeah mind you i never said the wolves or the tribes ever acted as a pdf or guard army (althoug with warrior weapons it may be possible) so thank you for assuming something. the wolves and the tribes simply defended their territory. so i suggest you drop your attitude Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/page/2/#findComment-1896113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 yeah mind you i never said the wolves or the tribes ever acted as a pdf or guard army (althoug with warrior weapons it may be possible) so thank you for assuming something. the wolves and the tribes simply defended their territory. so i suggest you drop your attitude I didn't assume anything, actually I was only using your quote to clarify the issue not because of any issue with what you said in particular but to add additional information to hopefully avoid that very assumption (which obs0l3te made anyway). Yet you appear to assume I'm making a personal attack against you and that's not the case, thank you for assuming something. :P My comment to drop the attitude was to Obs0l3te but I guess I should say the same again. I was not attacking you so take a chill pill wolf brother, "or one of those chill strips, put it on your tongue, dissolves, chill," as Vic Jr. would say. :D Bonus points for anyone who knows where that quote came from. B) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/page/2/#findComment-1896154 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valhalla Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Not to forget that our Bondsmen are failed Aspirants. That means that they got already some initializing genetic enhancement in preparation to become a SW. That alone make them better then a normal IG/PDF soldier. Then maybe if he's trying to model this battle he should use Catachan (sp) jungle fighters instead of Cadian guard? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/page/2/#findComment-1896189 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 So if they aren't organized .. how do they defend? ok, all your crazy barbarians with swords, go fight any one who doesn't look like us? you didn't even read what I wrote. Sides i quoted it from sw fluff. just because they aren't organized like a pdf force or any modern/future military group doesn't mean they can't be organized i can see the tribes use viking era raids and tacitcs towards opponents, not all that succesfull but hey, 1 drop of water raises the sea Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/page/2/#findComment-1896190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 How a PDF is organised and equipped is down to that planet and its government as they are not part of the IG. The only Imperial constraint is that a single Commissar is attached but this may well be wavered on Astates governed planets like the Macgragge system and Fenris. However, a PDF would probably require that its members know that they are in it and, given the relationship between the braze warriors of the tribes and ourselves, we know that this is not so. The Bondsmen, however, are a different matter. It would be reasonable to argue that we organise our Bondsman along IG lines with IG equipment (less armour etc) as, just as the Bondsman crews of our fleet are organised much like those of the IN, military organisation in developed forces is normally functionally based. Even those whose families have been in our service for generations are still warriors of Fenris and, mine at least, retain their traditions and honour. So, it should be that they fight in packs with lasgun, sword and shield to hand, with heavy weapons specialists and the like. Moreover, they are, perhaps, closer to the Kasrkin then your normal IG trooper. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/page/2/#findComment-1896503 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtkoris Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Well, i'm definately doing a Space Wolf inspired Imperial Guard army when the new codex is released. I'm a huge Space Wolf fan but have never been tempted by the Imperial Guard until the new Valkyrie was announced (i'm ex-RAF so simply can't resist, sorry). My idea is running along the lines of the Bondsmen one, using them as a sort of elite Naval Marines fast reaction force (as i believe Vash113 mentioned they may be employed). From what i've read on the Wolves (which covers pretty much all that's available i think... novels, codeci, etc), the Wolves employ "volunteers only" on their space vessels and in their Bondsmen. The way i see it, the Wolves will have a force of 'Guardsmen-like' troops made up from the likes of 'failed' aspirants (i use the term lightly as these are likely to be fierce warriors to be chosen in the first place, but not quite Space Wolf material) and also from other promising members of their Bondsmen. I feel they would be trained and equipped to the highest degree and would only be used in; assistance to Space Wolf operations, repelling boarding actions and assisting with the defense of the Fang. I see them as small in number but elite in nature and i'm desperately hoping the new Guard Codex will allow for such a force... and of course, i'll be hoping to field an obscene amount of Valkyries to accompany them (after all, with a name like 'Valkyrie' how more 'viking-ish' could you get.. not that i've ever heard the name in Space Wolf fluff but hopefully you see where i'm coming from here). I also feel they'd have an amount of Leman Russ tanks to call on, after all, the tank was named in honour of the Wolves Primarch... either way, i'm planning on using a few of them too. As for colours... My Space Wolves are Adeptus Battlegrey with Iyanden Darksun on pouldrens and knees, so my 'guardsmen' will be similarly coloured, as will their Valkyries/Tanks. They will eschew camouflage, fighting with honour and courage and trusting in their training, the All Father and Russ to protect and guide them in battle. Cheers Koris Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/page/2/#findComment-1896620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanyPrawny Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Sounds amazing. I agree that the tribes don't count as a PDF as they would most likly not know whats going on if a tank rolled up on them but I think they would definatly fight back just as hard as a PDF. That army sounds amazing sgtkoris. "or one of those chill strips, put it on your tongue, dissolves, chill," as Vic Jr. would say. Red vs. Blue ofc :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/page/2/#findComment-1896630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Those tribesman you talk about... the iron tribes? They have their own land.... the iron isles.... they make much of the metalwork found among the tribesman IIRC and can do so because their isles are near constatn by fenrisian standards. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/page/2/#findComment-1896784 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Well, i'm definately doing a Space Wolf inspired Imperial Guard army when the new codex is released. I'm a huge Space Wolf fan but have never been tempted by the Imperial Guard until the new Valkyrie was announced (i'm ex-RAF so simply can't resist, sorry). ex-RAF - hey, that's almost like being ex-military :D Glad you've seen the light, little brother, as most crabs seem to be drawn towards Raven Wing. Welcome anyway - Swift and Bold :yuck: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/page/2/#findComment-1896877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtkoris Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Yep, ex-RAF (20 squadron, when they were Tornado GR1's), so i'll probably be throwing a bit of my former squadron heraldry on the Valkyries. As for being a Ravenwing supporter... not likely, as i collect; Blood Angels, Black Dragons and Space Wolves... which are about as far from the DA as a Space Marine can get i suppose :cry: :wacko:. Thanks for the comments guys, i know i'm new to posting but i visit pretty regularly... it's just that this topic really got me to thinking about joining the 'posting community' at long last (mainly post on SWCHQ and Ex-libris). Cheers Koris Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/page/2/#findComment-1896949 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Valkyries? Well they make as much sense as any other norse mythology, the Space Wolf Novels use a lot of that sort of thing. Loki's Beard, Asgard and so forth. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/page/2/#findComment-1896964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battle-Brother Wags Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 This topic is of great interest to me as well. I have formed about a thousand points of imperial guard in the past few months, and as of yet, they are G Company, 3rd Battalion, of the Cadian 301st, which is recorded as fighting alongside Space Wolves under the direction of some Commisar or something in going after the Red Corsairs. See the BRB timeline for more specifics. Currently, G Company, "Gamble's Grim," is embroiled upon Cardia III, putting the boot to whatever Orkish hordes may show themselves. But I'd love to have a fluff reason for them to move to a territory of space under the protection of the Space Wolves so that I can field them both alongside each other, perhaps in a game of apocolypse when my gaming group gets to that point. I have to go to work now, but I'll certainly jump back into the discussion later on tonight with some questions and hypotheses of my own. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/page/2/#findComment-1898501 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 A fluff reason? There are tons, Fenris doesn't have it's own PDF but the other planets under the Space Wolves control most likely do, like Garm for instance, and when they're invaded they will call for aid. Usually the Space Wolves will show but also other Imperial Authorities will as well. If you haven't yet, read the Space Wolf series, particularly Grey Hunter and Wolf's Honour for more information on the subject. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/160883-defense-of-fenris/page/2/#findComment-1898704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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